Mountain West Microbrew: Chit chat and irrelevancy

[Stenar]

Denver is not that much larger than SLC.

The Denver CSA has a population of 3.2 million. SLC CSA is 2.35 million.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

The best thing about the Sochi games is that it's reminding the world that Vancouver was a fluke, and that the winter games are not for real places or cities like the summer games are. The winter games are Lake Placid, Lillehammer, Salt Lake, other places of no consequence or note.

After Sochi, and Pyeongchang to follow, I am no longer supportive of Denver even bidding. The winter games are, unfortunately, irrelevant.

[ToysNoiz]

I have to assume that people outside Salt Lake think that it's a tiny ski town..

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Stenar

A Utah native got the first Gold medal of the Sochi games, not a Colorado one.

Oh look, a convenient CSA reference. Now I remember why we don't communicate with the little folk very often. Stick with MSAs, that's what the big kids do.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Oh look, a convenient CSA reference. Now I remember why we don't communicate with the little folk very often. Stick with MSAs, that's what the big kids do.

Nope, not sticking with the MSA, because ours got jacked up. A large population 5-10 minutes from downtown SLC got taken out of our MSA for a vast western desert like 100 miles from downtown. Our CSA is basically our old MSA.

[seventwenty]

A new Olympic event:

Winter bike commuting!

[DenverInfill]

In my opinion, CSA is better than MSA for Denver, as the Denver MSA doesn't include Boulder, which is substantially integrated as part of the Denver metropolitan area, and has been for decades. Despite the fact that Denver-Boulder commuting patterns don't meet the federal government's thresholds for combining them into a single MSA, in virtually all other aspects, Boulder is part of the greater Denver community (RTD, SCFD, DRCOG, Baseball/Football Stadium Districts, Metro Denver Mayors Caucus, etc).

The problem with the Denver CSA is that it includes Weld County, the vast majority of which geographically (as well as culturally) isn't part of the Denver metropolitan community, except for the far southwestern corner of the county which consists of Denver/Boulder oriented suburbs. But with MSAs or CSAs having to be composed of whole counties, the Denver CSA either takes all of Weld County or none of it.

To me, the best population measure of what would be considered the "Denver metro area" (or the Denver-Boulder metro area as it is often called) is the Denver MSA + Boulder County, for a July 2012 census estimate of 2.95 million--recognizing, however, that about 120k or so from southwest Weld is missing. Therefore, I'd say a good 2012 estimate for "Denver metro" is about 3.1 million.

[Stenar]

Since commuting patterns are part of what makes up an MSA, then those communities just north of downtown SLC that I mentioned should definitely be in our MSA. The vast majority of those people commute to SLC every day. The crush of traffic coming from the north is intense, but none of them are in our MSA? Ridiculous.

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

In my opinion, CSA is better than MSA for Denver, as the Denver MSA doesn't include Boulder, which is substantially integrated as part of the Denver metropolitan area, and has been for decades. Despite the fact that Denver-Boulder commuting patterns don't meet the federal government's thresholds for combining them into a single MSA, in virtually all other aspects, Boulder is part of the greater Denver community (RTD, SCFD, DRCOG, Baseball/Football Stadium Districts, Metro Denver Mayors Caucus, etc).

The problem with the Denver CSA is that it includes Weld County, the vast majority of which geographically (as well as culturally) isn't part of the Denver metropolitan community, except for the far southwestern corner of the county which consists of Denver/Boulder oriented suburbs. But with MSAs or CSAs having to be composed of whole counties, the Denver CSA either takes all of Weld County or none of it.

To me, the best population measure of what would be considered the "Denver metro area" (or the Denver-Boulder metro area as it is often called) is the Denver MSA + Boulder County, for a July 2012 census estimate of 2.95 million--recognizing, however, that about 120k or so from southwest Weld is missing. Therefore, I'd say a good 2012 estimate for "Denver metro" is about 3.1 million.

[ToysNoiz]

These issues with SLC and Denver MSA and CSA must be addressed. I'm sure this is also the game with other cities.

[bunt_q]

You guys are no fun. This isn't the place for a serious discussion of MSA and CSA methodology. This is the thread for pointless ribbing of other forumers from other cities.

If you want it addressed, re-do your counties. If works fine back east where counties are tiny.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The problem with the Denver CSA is that it includes Weld County, the vast majority of which geographically (as well as culturally)

THAT'S an understatment.. Well hopefully they secede so those backwards, weird Coloradan's are out of our thriving mile high city's CSA that's always thirsting for more!

Also, glad to see you're alive Bunt..

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Also, glad to see you're alive Bunt..

Barely, RyanD, barely...

[Cirrus]

I'm on board with CSAs, but 3.2 million is like 40% higher than 2.35 million. I wouldn't call that "not much larger". The comparable step above Denver's 3.2 would be a city with like 4.4 (ie Seattle). That's a good solid tier up.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

I'm on board with CSAs, but 3.2 million is like 40% higher than 2.35 million. I wouldn't call that "not much larger". The comparable step above Denver's 3.2 would be a city with like 4.4 (ie Seattle). That's a good solid tier up.

Denver is 36% larger. The point is that people in Denver seem to think SLC is a tiny town, but the greater Salt Lake area is only about 850,000 smaller than Denver.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Denver is 36% larger. The point is that people in Denver seem to think SLC is a tiny town, but the greater Salt Lake area is only about 850,000 smaller than Denver.

That's only Boise + 200,000 people.. No big deal. You'll get there next year . None of us are saying SLC is a small town, you guys are just quite a bit smaller than us.. The big(ger), bad(er), evil(er) Denver. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just an observation

EDIT: Seattle is also ~36% larger than Denver. So you're pretty much saying Denver is to Seattle as Salt Lake City is to Denver.. I can be okay with that. We, here in Denver, are also saying Seattle is kicking our ass in pretty much everything. If my little analogy is correct, then, well..

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Denver is 36% larger. The point is that people in Denver seem to think SLC is a tiny town, but the greater Salt Lake area is only about 850,000 smaller than Denver.

Yup, and if Salt Lake grows at 2.4% per year while Denver grows at 2.1% per year, Salt Lake will be just as big in... 106 years... Let's have this conversation then.

[Cirrus]

Not counting the other million or so people in the Front Range, of course.

[RyanD]

It's okay guys.. Salt Lake is having a huffy huff... You just need some Denver love so here's some Denver for you SLC.. You get 6 out of our 40 or so towers downtown This is a fun conversation...



(I know.. It's horrible photoshopping. But it's at least somewhat to scale)

[Cirrus]

OTOH, SLC is out in front of Denver on a few things.

Light rail in a center transitway instead of a freight ROW:

from flickr user photo dean

Regional rail (with bonus transfer to LRT less than 2 blocks aways):

from flickr user RideUTA

World's best car commercial filming location:

from flickr user linselys

Downtown department store:

from flickr user ken lund

Oh, and this little thing.

from flickr user sam olds

[Cirrus]

PS: If this turns into an actual versus thread that anybody takes seriously, I'll have to close it per forum rules. So try not to get your feelings hurt.

[RyanD]

Moderator,

You cannot close the original Denver Sandwich Thread. My feelings would get super hurt

Everyone needs to use these: to show we're not having a serious versus conversation because the sandwich thread must live on.. I LOVE sandwiches too much to see this guy go..