Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Empire

Where would you put the stadium?

SMU, DND lands at Willow Park, Windsor Park.

I think if this is going to happen in we should follow the successful Montreal model. Cheaper stadium, university, lower seating capacity then the western stadiums.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

SMU, DND lands at Willow Park, Windsor Park.

I think if this is going to happen in we should follow the successful Montreal model. Cheaper stadium, university, lower seating capacity then the western stadiums.

I'd go along with all of that.

[someone123]

Others must have pointed this out already, but it seems strange to me that there's been no public push from SMU to have the new stadium on or near campus. A partnership would result in a much nicer stadium than SMU would be able to afford on its own, and it doesn't seem like there's much value to having multiple stadiums with significant amounts of seating.

[Nouvellecosse]

But does the south end have any significant parcels of available land?

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

SMU, DND lands at Willow Park, Windsor Park.

I think if this is going to happen in we should follow the successful Montreal model. Cheaper stadium, university, lower seating capacity then the western stadiums.

You might be able to shoehorn 20000 seats in a stadium at SMU with no parking or amenities. Concerts usually come with 4 to 16 eighteen wheelers, security & entourage. Games & concerts will require dozens of busses coming and going constantly. They just built a huge supply base at Willow Park taking most of the available site. Where would you put a stadium at Windsor Park..... replace the baseball field?

Look at Moncton where Magnetic Hill is in the Middle of nowhere and you get 75000 for concerts propping up the local economy for a couple of days. When there is a CFL game in Halifax all of the hotels will be maxed out and the bars crowded before and after the game. The visiting fans alone could fill the pubs and restaurants. The party will be downtown and it will be crowded even if people can't walk from the stadium.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Using the Google Distance Measurement Tool, it appears Landsdowne Park's dimensions (for the actual building, not including peripheral land for things like parking) are about 200m x 100m. Based on that my absolute most ideal dream option would be to buy and redevelop part of the West End mall, which just isn't as busy as it used to be god bless it. Tear down the Walmart/Sobeys wing and that little strip mall with the Moore's depot in it, build the stadium on that space, then shift the Walmart to the Bay's current location (which has a huge amount of parking in the form of a garage that's barely even used) and move the Bay downtown. There could be another new garage built on one of the existing surface parking lots surrounding the site if needed and have the Sobeys on the ground level of the garage.

That would be ideal as it would have near perfect access to transit as well as reasonable access to both bridges and not far from the bi-hi either.

But of course there's no indication the property managers are looking to sell at this point so I'll just have to dream.

Do it up!

[fenwick16]

I think that opposition to a stadium is due to the notion that it will be a large overwhelming concrete structure that is 12 - 15 storeys high of concrete and steel. The only area of the peninsula that makes sense in my opinion is the South Commons - https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax+ns...ional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=h&z=18 . This is a public use of the space, which the Commons was meant for. The Commons has been used for a hospital, high school, ice skating Oval, baseball stands (at the Wanderers Grounds), skateboarding park, concerts ... So why not a well landscaped, unobtrusive stadium design with permanent seats and washrooms?

The InfoCision stadium in Akron, Ohio is designed to be unobtrusive - https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=infocision...9&spn=0.005084,0.008256&t=h&deg=180&z=18 . Here are some pictures that I took of the stadium:

[Antigonish]

I really love the sunken bowl design. It could really help save a bit of space and make the stadium seem shorter in height. Save The View types wouldn't have much to complain about in that case.

Living in Edmonton I only just realized that the Commonwealth Stadium where the Eskimos play has that design. It isn't a true sunken bowl as entering the stadium requires walking up about 30 stairs to get to the gates, but the majority of the bottom bowl is underground. This cuts off about an extra 3 or 4 stories of height from the street.

[Keith P.]

You cannot build a stadium of any size without significant parking. I am not talking of acres and acres and acres like you see at the Meadowlands or FedEx Field, but you need some immediately adjacent for buses, stadium workers, equipment and broadcast trucks, etc., and some nearby at least for those who must drive to the event because they have no alternative. It seems to me that this rules out many if not most peninsular locations, all of which are too small. We are not talking another Huskies stadium here.

As was said up-thread, stadiums of this type tend to be different from arenas and smaller sports fields, which get much use and are active much more frequently. A large stadium costs more to run because it has more things to take care of, so even if you do not have any attendees in the stands, you are dealing with operating costs that are much greater than the existing sports fields in places like Dartmouth Crossing. It is unlikely that it could be used economically for minor sports or the like. Hence, it is inactive much of the time.

There are exceptions in places like Wrigley Field in Chicago, which has become its own neighborhood year-round, but most of the older center-city stadiums have surrounding neighborhoods that are are dead much of the time. Putting one too close to a residential community brings about its own issues in relation to noise, parking, etc. I think the same is likely here, and for that reason among others it makes sense to have it off the peninsula.

I do not like the Shannon Park location much. To call it "walkable" is a huge stretch. There is nothing there now and not very many residents live close enough to walk there should a stadium be built. It is on the water which in this city means it is often colder and damper than other locations. It would need to be sited carefully to avoid being under the MacKay bridge and there is a major infrastructure investment required for roads and bridges (since you do not want the rail level crossing that is currently there trapping people). Not impossible, but not a budget job either.

I like a location either next to the sports fields in Dartmouth Crossing, at exhibition Park, or (here's one that has not been discussed much) at the federally-owned rifle range in Bedford. That location is at the intersection of the 102 and 101 highways, has the large Bedford/Sackville population in close proximity, and is a site that is crying out for development. It includes a sloping lot that might make construction of a semi-sunken bowl easier and less expensive.

[Nouvellecosse]

Even if it does need extra land not easily found on the peninsula, that doesn't mean we have to just give up completely and throw it out in the middle of bfnw. I'm sure with a little creativity we can find a perfectly suitable spot in the actual urban or suburban area.

Just think of the Penhorn Mall site for instance. Most of the actual mall was torn down and only Sobeys and Sears remain. Behind them there is a huge amount of ample space, sufficient for both stadium and parking/loading areas. And the location is well situated both in terms of both auto and transit access.

[q12]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The only area of the peninsula that makes sense in my opinion is the South Commons - https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax+ns...ional+Municipality,+Nova+Scotia&t=h&z=18 . This is a public use of the space, which the Commons was meant for. The Commons has been used for a hospital, high school, ice skating Oval, baseball stands (at the Wanderers Grounds), skateboarding park, concerts ... So why not a well landscaped, unobtrusive stadium design with permanent seats and washrooms?

This is a great location as there are large parking garages only a 7 min walk, or (3 min shuttle bus)

[Keith P.]

Your scale seems off. You are showing it as about the same size as the oval. A stadium would be bigger than that.

The parking garages of which you speak are on the other side of Citadel Hill. They would be a tough walk for a lot of people.

In any event, the Common would be a non-starter in this town. The "Friends" would be out in force.

[q12]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Your scale seems off. You are showing it as about the same size as the oval. A stadium would be bigger than that.

The parking garages of which you speak are on the other side of Citadel Hill. They would be a tough walk for a lot of people.

In any event, the Common would be a non-starter in this town. The "Friends" would be out in force.

Keith I hear what your saying.

Take a look at the Metro Centre in the same image (I edited it to highlight it). The 10,600 seat plus metro centre seems about right compared to the 30,000 bench seat Infocision Stadium. And we only need about 22,000 (same as Hamilton).

[Nouvellecosse]

The oval is about 185x70m, and the Ottawa example is about 200x100m. So the actual building would fit it we could find a solution for the service areas.

But on the second point I agree. That would just be opening up a political brawl that could not likely be won.

[fenwick16]

An InfoCision type stadium would fit at that location with room to spare for the tennis courts, skateboarding park and even would allow room for temporary expansion in the end zones to host a Grey Cup; this even takes into consideration the longer and slightly wider Canadian Football field. The stadium field would also be large enough (with room to spare) for an FIFA regulation size soccer field.



For people who want to have the green space preserved, the VG hospital when demolished could be converted to green space to compensate for the stadium area and would spread the park space over a wider part of the city.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by q12

This is a great location as there are large parking garages only a 7 min walk, or (3 min shuttle bus)

I would like to see the public and media reactions to any portion of the Halifax Common being proposed as a possible location for the stadium. I support a stadium somewhere in the Common: and I do hope this would mean better maintenance of the remaining baseball fields.

(How many fields do we need, again?...)

If the Oval is a good use of Common space, is a stadium?

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

An InfoCision type stadium would fit at that location with room to spare for the tennis courts, skateboarding park and even would allow room for temporary expansion in the end zones to host a Grey Cup; this even takes into consideration the longer and slightly wider Canadian Football field. The stadium field would also be large enough (with room to spare) for an FIFA regulation size soccer field.

For people who want to have the green space preserved, the VG hospital when demolished could be converted to green space to compensate for the stadium area and would spread the park space over a wider part of the city.

Thank you for reposting your work, fenwick. I remember this graphic you made from earlier in the thread.

[q12]

Latest picture of Ottawa's stadium:

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

from the City of Ottawa - Jan 21

https://twitter.com/ottawacity/status/425698489440698368

[ns_kid]

This obsessing over a possible location for a new stadium is no doubt entertaining for some, but exceptionally premature. There will be no stadium to locate without sound financing, and there is no way that HRM or Nova Scotia will be footing the entire bill for this facility. Without significant private investment it will not happen, and that's going to mean a lot more than just a few hundred thousand bucks for naming rights. I believe that CFL commissioner Mark Cohon is right that a development partnership such as Ottawa has entered into holds the most promise, combining the sports facility with other commercial and residential development. Presumably this is the message he will bring to his Halifax business audience today. Good luck to him; certainly if any risk-averse Halifax business leaders are interested in attaching their reputations to this project they've kept it close to their chests until now.

The Ottawa project has the city committing about half the projected $300 million cost to build a 24,000 seat stadium and parkland, while Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group is building a couple of residential towers, commercial space and theatres. The two sides are splitting the cost of underground parking. CFL and NASL franchises are in place for the stadium's projected fall 2014 opening.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/planning-and-development/what-we-are-building

HRM could proceed with a call for proposals from developers similar to the approach that started the ball rolling on Nova Centre. But it seems certain that a public/private partnership like this would demand a lot more space than would be available on the Commons, or most anywhere on the peninsula. By virtually any standard Shannon is the most central location of sufficient size, assuming agreement can be reached with Canada Lands.

And having lived in both cities I can assure you Dartmo-phobes that Shannon Park (7 km to city centre) is no Kanata (28 km).

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

This obsessing over a possible location for a new stadium is no doubt entertaining for some, but exceptionally premature. There will be no stadium to locate without sound financing, and there is no way that HRM or Nova Scotia will be footing the entire bill for this facility. Without significant private investment it will not happen, and that's going to mean a lot more than just a few hundred thousand bucks for naming rights. I believe that CFL commissioner Mark Cohon is right that a development partnership such as Ottawa has entered into holds the most promise, combining the sports facility with other commercial and residential development. Presumably this is the message he will bring to his Halifax business audience today. Good luck to him; certainly if any risk-averse Halifax business leaders are interested in attaching their reputations to this project they've kept it close to their chests until now.

The Ottawa project has the city committing about half the projected $300 million cost to build a 24,000 seat stadium and parkland, while Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group is building a couple of residential towers, commercial space and theatres. The two sides are splitting the cost of underground parking. CFL and NASL franchises are in place for the stadium's projected fall 2014 opening.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/planning-and-development/what-we-are-building

HRM could proceed with a call for proposals from developers similar to the approach that started the ball rolling on Nova Centre. But it seems certain that a public/private partnership like this would demand a lot more space than would be available on the Commons, or most anywhere on the peninsula. By virtually any standard Shannon is the most central location of sufficient size, assuming agreement can be reached with Canada Lands.

And having lived in both cities I can assure you Dartmo-phobes that Shannon Park (7 km to city centre) is no Kanata (28 km).

I still like the roundhouse area. Great transport connections and I think its feasible if parking structures were built.