PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[McBane]

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

If you were doing it to attract more business it would be wiser to cut taxes on businesses. This is an individual income tax cut, and doesn't really do a ton for businesses. You can make the argument that the wage tax increases the amount employers have to pay employees to make up for the amount taken by the tax, but a 1.5% change in the pay rate isn't going to do much to spur business growth. How about instead of this the BPT is completely eliminated? That would make a hell of a lot more sense and be better for spurring business growth.

This just seems like Oh pandering to his own popularity.

If a company located in a wage-tax free zone moves to the city, you're in effect, asking employees to take a 4% (or whatever the exact figure is) pay cut. But reducing the wage tax does make it more palatable for employers to move employees into the city without experience huge turnover and lowering morale.

Also, lowering the wage tax will reduce the number of people who live in the city and claim residency elsewhere.

Is Oh's proposal a great solution? No. But it's a good start. In this city, any time you talk about lowering taxes, it's a great thing. (How many tax increases/new taxes did Nutter propose over the past few years?)

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by McBane

If a company located in a wage-tax free zone moves to the city, you're in effect, asking employees to take a 4% (or whatever the exact figure is) pay cut. But reducing the wage tax does make it more palatable for employers to move employees into the city without experience huge turnover and lowering morale.

Also, lowering the wage tax will reduce the number of people who live in the city and claim residency elsewhere.

Is Oh's proposal a great solution? No. But it's a good start. In this city, any time you talk about lowering taxes, it's a great thing. (How many tax increases/new taxes did Nutter propose over the past few years?)

There have been quite a few proposal's. The Soda tax takes the cake. But its the "temporary" additional 1% sales tax that will forever become permanent.

Its really quite amazing the recent development in the private sector in Philadelphia with the amount of failures in the government, most notably the school district.

[Mappy]

Originally Posted by eliasrapp98

So Philly is a USOC nominee along with LA, San Diego, Dallas, Boston, Atlanta, and DC.

I know this is off topic, but I think we have a good chance of winning this US nomination. LA and Atlanta recently have had olympics, San Diego and Dallas would be bad for the olympics. Boston and DC are too small and don't have the infrastructure really. Philly might have the best chance. They pick in 2016.

The reason this is interesting is because even though we would never get the actual olympics, being the USA pick would mean that we would have to release a plan for what we would do which would be amazing for us to see.

Hypothetically though, what would you think our Olympic design would be for the city?

This is my wheelhouse - I've been looking at this for about 5 years now. I met with someone from the Philly2016 committee not that long ago, and he (pessimistically) thinks Philly has no shot due to a lack of an international rep (as was perceived in ~2007 when Philly lost out the USOC bid to Chicago). But I think a lot has changed for Philly since 2007 and perhaps this guy was unwilling to believe this.

Back in 2007 I would have expected a Philly Olympic Host Plan to be based on the Stadium area and the Navy Yard. That was before the Navy Yard Plan was revised and solidified its sprawl design office Park plan which leaves no option for a residential component that an Olympic Village would create as a legacy use. Another constraint for this is the Linc had its expansions/improvements started. Those basically crosses the Linc off the list as a potential Main Event Stadium, since it there is no way to fit an Olympic track in the Linc as-is, but could have had it's expansion designed around this possibility (massive expansion of upper deck seating capacity, to compensate for temporarily removed lower seats for track... or potentially widening the entire stadium by moving an entire side of structure as modeled in the slides linked above).

Many people also shoot down the idea hosting olympics' because of the financial investments that "never" pay off. This is not true, Many games break even or make a profit. THE KEY, as I see it, to making sure a plan stays in the black is centering the new infrastructure and venue construction around projects the City has already made plans for. Things the city already needs/wants, but hasn't been able to bring to fruition for one reason or another yet. Essentially, get some federal and private investment to kick-start the development that may have taken 20-30 more years to get going.

So... the concepts I have been working on (for fun in my spare time) over the last couple years are based on pulling nuggets of project proposals and plans together, and consolidating them into a feasible plan for a post-Olympics scenario (i.e.all the legacy uses are planned for before olympic uses), with Olympic uses fitting in for what is needed. Specifically I would align the Olympic Village in separate pods along the Delaware River and near the stadiums/Xfinity Live. The event venues then get scaled back (and opened to the public where appropriate) to become part of the Delaware Waterfront park system, while the housing and infrastructure become mixed use development along Delaware Ave. All of which are connected to each other and the airport via proposed light rail line and trail system.

Here is a rough overview of my current Philly 2024 Concept: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1...qspzhRo0rA6B-j8bnFVFKeE/edit?usp=sharing

[summersm343]

Expect announcements for several new towers in a development at 23rd and Arch on the 11th.

Also, expect an announcement for a new tower at 17th and Vine to be built by the Church of Latter Day Saints on the 12th.

[Plokoon11]

What sources, and what kind of towers?

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Plokoon11

What sources, and what kind of towers?

My sources.

The one at 16th and Vine will be significantly tall, not sure but renderings I saw looked between 400-600 feet, and will be announced with Mayor Nutter on the 12th.

The development at 23rd and Arch has been stirring around for a few months. I've seen two different plans. One with three towers in the 15-22 floor ranges... and one plan with two towers... one in the 20 floor range and one in the 30 something floor range about the same height as PECO. No idea what plan they are going forward with. They go before LSNA on the 11th.

[blorkishdork]

So...

Next week we should expect 3 developments announced?

-17th and vine (announcement on the 12th)

-23rd and Arch (LSNA meeting on the 11th)

& 16th and Arch? Is this actually at 16th and cherry? and is this the spoken about office building? (announcement on the 12th)

Just wanting to clarify, thank you

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by blorkishdork

So...

Next week we should expect 3 developments announced?

-17th and vine (announcement on the 12th)

-23rd and Arch (LSNA meeting on the 11th)

& 16th and Arch? Is this actually at 16th and cherry? and is this the spoken about office building? (announcement on the 12th)

Just wanting to clarify, thank you

Sorry. I meant 16th and Vine. The parking lot between 16th and 17th just north of the Vine Street expressway. I just fixed that typo. As far as I know, the 16th and Cherry development will be 16-19 floors. No clue when they plan to "official" announce that yet.

[blorkishdork]

Thank you for clarifying! Keep up the great work!

[Pennsgrant]

Never imagined the Mormons being a mover and shaker in Philadelphia but that's great news. I was by there the other day and there was a lot of activity,lot of hats walking around on the 16th + Vinelot. The thought crossed my mind are they up to something here.

23rd+ Arch desperately needs some density. I cant believe that huge lot as been vacant all these years right across from 30th Street Station. 3 mid rise towers here? Game changer for me. My only wish is that the architecture reflects Center Citys renaissance.

BLT needs to stop with these horrendously poor designs like 3601 Market. Step it up people.

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

There have been quite a few proposal's. The Soda tax takes the cake. But its the "temporary" additional 1% sales tax that will forever become permanent.

"There's nothing in this world more permanent than a temporary government program."

- Milton Friedman

It is true, every time you lower taxes in a city whose taxes are disproportionately high relative to QOL (infrastructure, schools, crime, etc.) it will be a positive effect. I happen to believe I have a great QOL here in the city, but it still doesn't justify 4% plus sales tax plus my recently AVI'd property taxes. As I've said before, either (a) up the city's QOL game and keep taxes as is, or (b) let QOL evolve organically and cut taxes. We need to have more of a competitive edge over the suburbs. The damn is already leaking, hopefully if this proposal gets passed we'll be at a cascade.

[AbortedWalrus]

Originally Posted by McBane

If a company located in a wage-tax free zone moves to the city, you're in effect, asking employees to take a 4% (or whatever the exact figure is) pay cut. But reducing the wage tax does make it more palatable for employers to move employees into the city without experience huge turnover and lowering morale.

Also, lowering the wage tax will reduce the number of people who live in the city and claim residency elsewhere.

Is Oh's proposal a great solution? No. But it's a good start. In this city, any time you talk about lowering taxes, it's a great thing. (How many tax increases/new taxes did Nutter propose over the past few years?)

If you're talking about relocating a company from outside the city and bringing employees with it, you have a point, with a few caveats. If those employees are already city residents, which many would be, they are already paying wage tax. For non-residents you'd still have to pay 2% wage tax, a difference of 1.4%. I don't see how a 1.4% difference in your tax rate is going to somehow make the prospect of paying a new tax on your income sting any less. If you abolished it you could eliminate the sting, but just lowering it by 1.4% for new residents really doesn't have much impact at all. Especially when most of those people will also have the choice of "yeah if you don't move you don't have a job by the way."

Getting rid of or reducing the BPT is still going to do more to create new businesses or attract businesses to the city. But I don't think this bill is about bringing business in. It's about David Oh being able to say in the next election that he tried to put $600 dollars into everyone's pockets. He's an at-large republican candidate too, so he probably has one of the shakiest seats on council.

[acenturi]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Expect announcements for several new towers in a development at 23rd and Arch on the 11th.

Also, expect an announcement for a new tower at 17th and Vine to be built by the Church of Latter Day Saints on the 12th.

I suspect a lot of people don't realize that the LDS church is as much a "Business" as a religious organization - if not more so. They're Ultra conservative, super wealthy and would never build a Tower like that unless they already had tenants committed. If anyone can bring new corporate blood to CC - it's the LDS - after of course Comcast.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by acenturi

I suspect a lot of people don't realize that the LDS church is as much a "Business" as a religious organization - if not more so. They're Ultra conservative, super wealthy and would never build a Tower like that unless they already had tenants committed. If anyone can bring new corporate blood to CC - it's the LDS - after of course Comcast.

I'm expecting a mix of retail/commercial with office space and either apartments or condos in this building. I guess we'll see

[ScottinPhilly]

summersm343 - Thanks for the heads up on this. Any sense of when ground breaking will be for the LDS building at 16 and Vine?

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by ScottinPhilly

summersm343 - Thanks for the heads up on this. Any sense of when ground breaking will be for the LDS building at 16 and Vine?

Nope, but with this kind of huge announcement with the Mayor, groundbreaking usually occurs several months after... so hopefully by the end of the year.

[McBane]

Summer definitely has a reputation for good leads. This is awesome news!

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I'm expecting a mix of retail/commercial with office space and either apartments or condos in this building. I guess we'll see

Just don't expect any booze or coffee.

[sayitaintso]

From CCRA

CHOP ON SCHUYLKILL AVE: PLAIN VANILLA, RETAIL IN QUESTION
Children's Hospital presented their latest plans (at
www.chop.edu/expansion) for a 22 story office tower and parking garage as the first stage of an office campus located between Schuylkill Ave and the railroad tracks on a parcel stretching from the South Street bridge to approximately Catherine Street.

The individual members of the South X Schuylkill joint taskforce convened by CCRA, SOSNA and SSWBA are concerned that the project is needlessly underwhelming and that the plans fail to support pedestrian friendly, neighborhood interactive public spaces.

CHOP is a Philadelphia institution. But, like Comcast or Urban Outfitters, it has a national brand. The buildings erected by Comcast and Urban Outfitters are iconic and they make the City a better place. The Comcast Center rules the City's skies and, at ground level, it features an out of the box video intensive lobby adjacent to an al fresco urban dining plaza. Urban Outfitter's Naval Yard campus has won numerous prizes (at least 10), including the American Institute of Architect's 2010 honor award. The UO commissary at the Naval Yard not only has become the 9 to 5 social center for its employees AND the thousands of non UO employees at the Naval Yard, it is the go to place for the upscale charity events frequented by the region's glitterati. CHOP's suggestion for its commissary? Something along the lines of Au Bon Pain, a great amenity for one of those office parks you whiz by on the New Jersey turnpike on your way from one great city, Philadelphia, to another, New York.

CHOP's plans also fall short on the urban planning scale. City streets which are safe and successful feature ground level retail which provides bustle and the safety of eyes on the street. CHOP's response? Retail's not part of our mission. But CHOP has chosen to activate its mission in a city and in pursuing its mission, CHOP can enhance its surroundings by embracing basic urban planning principles or not. What does "or not" look like? Take a walk at 5:15 pm down Civic Center Boulevard, the location of CHOP's west Philadelphia facilities, but bring a friend, because you will be the only one on the sidewalk.

The 22-story tower built atop a parking garage accessible from the South Street bridge will house 1,000 research staff. The garage is covered by a plaza interspersed with plantings below which the parking floors descend from the height of the bridge to the level of Schuylkill Ave. The garage mass is hidden by the building's podium and a set of "Spanish steps" rising from the western terminus of Bainbridge Street to the bridge level. In addition, the plans call for a surface parking lot on the site's southern end accessible from Schuylkill Avenue so that a total of 500 cars can be accommodated. CHOP is negotiating with CSX for a promenade over the tracks and a bridge to Schuylkill Banks.

Demolition of the Kennedy building is planned for this spring with construction beginning in the summer and a projected completion in the spring of 2017.

[GarCastle]

Originally Posted by shadowbat2

So this will be gaining extra floors?
I was figuring something like that would occur just by looking at the situation now. The steel clearly appears like it would bear additional weight, and that Smillow wall (the section behind the crane) looks like it was designed where a new wing would join it in the future.

Also is it true the Penn Tower was built in a rush for the Bicentennial with a short "design life"? I remember reading something about that here, and having been in the garage portion, it does has a "slapped up" feel to it....

Anyways, defiantly looking forward to any images if you can get them

Yes that is the South Pavilion, they refer to the additional floors as the South Pavilion Extension but they also use that same name for the med school floors and possibly the whole thing.

Yes Penn Tower was "slapped up" and was not meant to be around this long. I do not recall the exact time it was built nor the trigger for it.

I got the renderings including some cross-sections but it's too large for crappy Microshaft webmail. My email police will not let me open it in webmail, save it off as a file, open it on my work phone, nor forward it to another email account. It's driving me freakin' nuts. I saved it off on my work laptop but that is at work LOL. I'll was looking forward to posting them so I really don't want to wait. I can't seem to compress it within webmail nor forward it as an attached email with the embedded attachment file.

Cheers,
G.