[Burnaby] The Amazing Brentwood | 15 Towers | 186m | 56 flrs | U/C & Proposed

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Ahh. You said you lived "a bit closer to downtown" so I thought you lived in Vancouver itself. North Vancouver to me isn't a bit closer to downtown as during the day it probably takes you as long to get to downtown from your place is it does for me here in Surrey. I categorize close to downtown as being say East Vancouter or Kits or something but failed to read your location at the top you clearly have.

My place is directly north of Commercial drive. Even factoring in the bridge detour I'm closer to downtown than parts of Vancouver proper and a hell of a lot closer than Surrey, distance or travel time. Downtown is on the northwest corner of Vancouver.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I think there's a critical mass of residents downtown that it doesn't really matter. Certainly Costco, Future Shop and other box stores that have opened downtown are jam packed whenever I'm in them.

The idea of going downtown to shop died with Woodwards. It's possible to come down for some high end brand that isn't available elsewhere, but so what?

I'd love to see a Target downtown, similar to other cities, but cest la vie.

To say that the city council, any city council, is actively trying to get people to spend their money elsewhere is silly.

They'd all be more packed if they drew from a larger number of customers. The fact that some, like the poster, stated they live closer to downtown but choose to shop, eat, play elsewhere. That speaks volumes. That doesn't happen in other cities. This started with stupid Vancouver city policies rooted in social engineering, not Woodwards moving. If city hall ever removed their nimby/residential developer biases, that trend would reverse in an instant. Downtown Vancouver is the jewel of our region that is the front line for everyone who visits our city. It should be enjoyed by everyone, not just those who live down in the area.

And yes, a city council trying to get people to spend their money in other municipalities is quite silly. Unfortunately, that is precisely what current policies dictate. If you go over their so called "growth strategies" its actually illustrated quite clearly.

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

They'd all be more packed if they drew from a larger number of customers. The fact that some, like the poster, stated they live closer to downtown but choose to shop, eat, play elsewhere. That speaks volumes. That doesn't happen in other cities. This started with stupid Vancouver city policies rooted in social engineering, not Woodwards moving. If city hall ever removed their nimby/residential developer biases, that trend would reverse in an instant. Downtown Vancouver is the jewel of our region that is the front line for everyone who visits our city. It should be enjoyed by everyone, not just those who live down in the area.

And yes, a city council trying to get people to spend their money in other municipalities is quite silly. Unfortunately, that is precisely what current policies dictate. If you go over their so called "growth strategies" its actually illustrated quite clearly.

Do you have an example of council actively rejecting retail? Despite bike lanes and homeless shelters and probably silly ideas about viaducts, council seems to be pretty pro-development in downtown, especially mixed use with a retail component. And this is also a council that is okaying a gigantic development on top of, and expansion of Oakridge mall. You have a lot of vitriol and opinion but not very much substance to back it up. Do you have anything substantiative to say?

(And again, the idea that there is a barrier to going downtown is silly: I made a trip there today for a shopping stop.)

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

They'd all be more packed if they drew from a larger number of customers. The fact that some, like the poster, stated they live closer to downtown but choose to shop, eat, play elsewhere. That speaks volumes. That doesn't happen in other cities.

Huh? Have you been to other cities? Most downtowns are a wasteland, nobody wants to go there apart from their 9-5 office job.

I live downtown, but I probably end up at Metrotown more than Pacific Centre. So what? That has nothing to do with city council policies.

There is so much Vision-hate on these boards it's hilarious. If and when the NPA ever get back into office, I hope you aren't banking on some kind of 180 reversal on policies, because it ain't going to happen. If you're not happy with the way Vancouver has developed in the last 25 years, you're probably in the wrong city.

[SpongeG]

i like to go downtown to browse and shop at some places that are only downtown like chintz, the cross or CB2, but when it comes to chain stores like gap, aldo etc. i might check out what i want on robson and buy it at the mall close to where i live or lived since i don't wanna lug the stuff around with me

as for going downtown in a car i avoid it when i can its just too hard to find a good spot and free vs pay - free always wins out

[s211]

Originally Posted by NewWester

Do you have an example of council actively rejecting retail?

Walmart.

You're welcome.

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by s211

Walmart.

You're welcome.

I can see how that would be a major barrier to most shoppers going to Vancouver. You know, except there is a Walmart in Vancouver and also who in the universe is going to make a longer trip downtown to go to Walmart when there are several around metro... But okay, that's one example. Any others? I fail to see the conspiracy.

(Also, call me a communist, but having stiffer approval criteria for a company that fails to pay their employees a living wage and which has a pretty predatory relationship with suppliers is kind of okay with me.)

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Huh? Have you been to other cities? Most downtowns are a wasteland, nobody wants to go there apart from their 9-5 office job.

I live downtown, but I probably end up at Metrotown more than Pacific Centre. So what? That has nothing to do with city council policies.

There is so much Vision-hate on these boards it's hilarious. If and when the NPA ever get back into office, I hope you aren't banking on some kind of 180 reversal on policies, because it ain't going to happen. If you're not happy with the way Vancouver has developed in the last 25 years, you're probably in the wrong city.

Some cities have poor downtowns. Others do not. That doesn't mean the ones who have poor ones haven't tried policies to attract people. They just haven't been successful. There is a world of difference between that and Vancouver, whereby its policies only caters to a select group of people.

And yes you going to Metrotown has everything to do with policies. Like the previous poster who frequents Brentwood, if the city was more inviting to all people within the local market, there would be more people coming downtown, which would increase revenues, and as a result you would see a greater investment in infrastructure by property companies.

As for the Vision comment, I have no faith in the NPA either. They are just as inept; and that is really saying something since the current council is on the moon. And for the record, it hasn't been 25 years, its been more like 15 that policies have gone off the rails.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by NewWester

I can see how that would be a major barrier to most shoppers going to Vancouver. You know, except there is a Walmart in Vancouver and also who in the universe is going to make a longer trip downtown to go to Walmart when there are several around metro... But okay, that's one example. Any others? I fail to see the conspiracy.

Let me help you. Add Wynn Casinos and Resorts, Gold's Gym, and McDonalds to the list. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. If you include everyone who still entered the market but had to scale back plans, the list would be much, much longer.

PS before you trot out the "but we have McDonalds in the city" know that the company was willing to invest in a site within the city that would have dwarfed anything else the company had going on in Canada before the city got involved and spend millions on legal fees and finally a settlement when they lost just to stop the project.

[NewWester]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Let me help you. Add Wynn Casinos and Resorts, Gold's Gym, and McDonalds to the list. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. If you include everyone who still entered the market but had to scale back plans, the list would be much, much longer.

PS before you trot out the "but we have McDonalds in the city" know that the company was willing to invest in a site within the city that would have dwarfed anything else the company had going on in Canada before the city got involved and spend millions on legal fees and finally a settlement when they lost just to stop the project.

Do you have links to these stories? I am genuinely curious, and my googling skills aren't netting me the info. If there is a crazy bias against companies developing in Vancouver, I'd actually like to know.

(That said, Casinos are a different beast than a retail store. I mean, there are some pretty weighty social issues tied to large scale gambling operations which I think have to be confronted. There are compelling arguments for both pro and anti parties, and I really think both sides have legitimate viewpoints. So I don't think it is a fair example...)

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by NewWester

Do you have links to these stories? I am genuinely curious, and my googling skills aren't netting me the info. If there is a crazy bias against companies developing in Vancouver, I'd actually like to know.

(That said, Casinos are a different beast than a retail store. I mean, there are some pretty weighty social issues tied to large scale gambling operations which I think have to be confronted. There are compelling arguments for both pro and anti parties, and I really think both sides have legitimate viewpoints. So I don't think it is a fair example...)

Fair enough. I guess Casinos do have different criteria than your average store. I doubt there would be any links to the Golds Gym example as they gave up immediately and opened in another location. The McDonalds one was a court case so there should be a way to access it. I apologize, but I'm afraid my googling skills are probably even worse than yours.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by Jebby

The render looks great, I just question the usefulness of a big public plaza in a city that rains 8 months a year. Would have been awesome to see some sort of canopy over it similar to the Sony Center in Berlin so that it could be used year round with cafes and maybe even bars.

this, of course makes sense, and because it does, it won't happen in this city.

[memememe76]

I don't know. A resident of North Vancouver going to Brentwood instead of Downtown does not reflect of failing of Downtown. Seems to me it's more a failing of North Vancouver.

I live in Surrey. I think I go to Downtown Vancouver plenty of times. I have very little difficulty going to Downtown by taking the Skytrain. I don't drive Downtown because, yes, parking sucks and driving is a hassle. Uhm, that's true of most successful Downtowns. Why is this an issue?

Meanwhile, now that Guildford has finished a lot of its upgrades, I pretty much stop going to Metrotown.

I thought there was a Gold's Gym downtown. Not that I care. I'm a Steve Nash Fitness World member.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by memememe76

I don't know. A resident of North Vancouver going to Brentwood instead of Downtown does not reflect of failing of Downtown. Seems to me it's more a failing of North Vancouver.

Unlike Surrey the north shore doesn't pretend that it's anything but a satellite of downtown - and maybe one day Burnaby. We have all the amenities you have (Park Royal is our Guildford). If everything you need is in Surrey, fantastic, it would be on the north shore too.

[memememe76]

Ooh, so touchy. Critiquing Downtown is perfectly fine but North Vancouver is unacceptable.

Honestly, the idea that a Lower Mainland resident goes to Richmond instead of Kitsilano or Surrey instead of Coquitlam, etc. Who cares? I leave Surrey plenty of times (goodness knows people know what Surrey lacks), but my decision to go somewhere outside Surrey does not mean I have any ill will on other areas outside Surrey.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by memememe76

Ooh, so touchy. Critiquing Downtown is perfectly fine but North Vancouver is unacceptable.

What? I said North Van is nothing but a satellite of Vancouver. We don't see ourselves as a separate entity in competition with the rest of the valley. The name "North Vancouver" alone shows that.

This thread is about Burnaby and you're going on about how great Surrey is. Might want to look in the mirror when talking about insecurity.

[jlousa]

Guys enough, move it to the retail thread as this is no longer about Brentwood.

[SpongeG]

does the first phase of brentwood also include demolition of the former zellers store?

I was at brentwood mall before christmas, it was really dead and sad inside

[Canadian Mind]

news that we're getting a 600 footer in the suburbs and people are bitching about malls?

Sad.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

does the first phase of brentwood also include demolition of the former zellers store?

I was at brentwood mall before christmas, it was really dead and sad inside

No, the Zellers space is currently being renovated to accommodate part of the mall that will be affected in Phase 1, which is the area with McDonalds and IHOP.