[Burnaby] The Amazing Brentwood | 15 Towers | 186m | 56 flrs | U/C & Proposed

[jb1969]

Originally Posted by Infrequent Poster

But then take out floor 13, every floor with the number 4 in it, and what ever other floors they decide to arbitrarily omit, and you are left with a 40 floor tower, (yes I'm exaggerating, but you get the idea) that they will still market as being 60 floors.

it is my understanding that municipal fire departments will not allow floor numbers to be skipped on new projects. apparently it creates too much confusion for life safety crews. this should stop the numbers game.

[jlousa]

Don't know where you heard that but it's not true, at least not locally at this point.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

I'm not a huge fan of the branding being used for this project thus far. Even the logo is dumb.

I second this. Seems a little half hearted and amateurish for a project this size.

[Laniatus]

BRE

NTW

OOD


When I first saw the logo I read each line separately "Bree-Entwuh-Oood"

I honestly cannot stand Rennie Marketing. I hate their ads and I hate their websites.

Still, I have high hopes for this development.

[smho]

Rezoning report for Tower 1 has been posted. The site is at the corner of Halifax and Willingdon.
https://burnaby.civicweb.net/Documents/DocumentList.aspx?ID=14427

* 53 residential floors atop a 3-storey commercial podium
* Break down of residential floors: 1 - amenity, 25 - rental, 27 - strata
* Separate lobbies and elevator banks for rental/strata
* Height: 611ft

Good height for a 56 storey building, and it should really standout since it's situated on a higher area in Brentwood.

[officedweller]

Sweet.
Thanks for posting.

This may be of concern:

"...at the top is a dramatic change in form with a three unit, multi-level penthouse inspired by French Architect, Le Corbusier's 1930s modernist Villa Savoye..."

Villa Savoye:

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/fnart/Corbu.html

But it does say the window washing equipment will be fully hidden

[GeeCee]

It's too bad that they're doing Tower 1 (near Willingdon) rather than Tower 2 first, as the latter would allow for them to get the SkyTrain connection going. Unless they're intending upon doing both at once anyways since they share the plaza/foundation/parking/etc.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by smho

Rezoning report for Tower 1 has been posted. The site is at the corner of Halifax and Willingdon.
https://burnaby.civicweb.net/Documents/DocumentList.aspx?ID=14427

* 53 residential floors atop a 3-storey commercial podium
* Break down of residential floors: 1 - amenity, 25 - rental, 27 - strata
* Separate lobbies and elevator banks for rental/strata
* Height: 611ft

Good height for a 56 storey building, and it should really standout since it's situated on a higher area in Brentwood.

Thats brilliant.

Only marginally shorter than Trump.

Hope it goes ahead as planned, looking forward to a render.

[Jebby]

Pretty amazing that a suburb is getting a 600 foot tower (and probably more to come) while downtown Vancouver only has one built and one under construction.

[LeftCoaster]

Wow, a 183M building, that is massive, not to mention almost 600 units.

I hope it has a bit more design money put into it than station square/SOLO because it's going to stand out for a while.

[NewWester]

Is it really that shocking? I mean, it seems to me like there is a pretty strong confluence of reasons for tall development in Metro/Brentwood. Like, from a purely maligned viewcone perspective, both Burnaby neighbourhoods run along the tops of ridges, so you can basically build as tall as you want without really destroying anyone's view. And then there is the fact that both regions are very underdeveloped, with very large formerly commercial lots that lend themselves to wide footprint towers which make more space for the internal infrastructure needed to go tall (as opposed to downtown Vancouver which has severe space limits, smaller lots, and is fairly built out). Add in good transit access to downtown (10-15min on skytrain) and a lower psf than downtown and people can afford to buy in Metro/Brentwood, so (maybe) these tall towers are partially selling to a completely different market. I mean, it's maybe noteworthy that there aren't more taller towers downtown, buuuuut I don't think it is at all surprising that taller buildings are cropping up in Burnaby.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by NewWester

Is it really that shocking? I mean, it seems to me like there is a pretty strong confluence of reasons for tall development in Metro/Brentwood. Like, from a purely maligned viewcone perspective, both Burnaby neighbourhoods run along the tops of ridges, so you can basically build as tall as you want without really destroying anyone's view. And then there is the fact that both regions are very underdeveloped, with very large formerly commercial lots that lend themselves to wide footprint towers which make more space for the internal infrastructure needed to go tall (as opposed to downtown Vancouver which has severe space limits, smaller lots, and is fairly built out). Add in good transit access to downtown (10-15min on skytrain) and a lower psf than downtown and people can afford to buy in Metro/Brentwood, so (maybe) these tall towers are partially selling to a completely different market. I mean, it's maybe noteworthy that there aren't more taller towers downtown, buuuuut I don't think it is at all surprising that taller buildings are cropping up in Burnaby.

That all makes complete sense. I think the surprise comes from the fact that people are not used to Vancouver being challenged.

Between the view cones, prices, and myriad of other factors you mention, the Burnaby town centers, particularly Brentwood and Metrotown have a real shot at establishing significant competition to downtown in both residential and commercial space.

Burnaby has always been the suburb next to Vancouver. I think the build out plans for Brentwood and Metrotown can really establish the City of Burnaby as a destination not a suburb.

Either way, time will tell.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by rofina

That all makes complete sense. I think the surprise comes from the fact that people are not used to Vancouver being challenged.

Between the view cones, prices, and myriad of other factors you mention, the Burnaby town centers, particularly Brentwood and Metrotown have a real shot at establishing significant competition to downtown in both residential and commercial space.

Burnaby has always been the suburb next to Vancouver. I think the build out plans for Brentwood and Metrotown can really establish the City of Burnaby as a destination not a suburb.

Either way, time will tell.

I live a bit closer to downtown but find myself always going to Burnaby when choosing to go to Keg/Joeys/Costco/malls etc. Faster traffic and free parking make it a no brainer.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I live a bit closer to downtown but find myself always going to Burnaby when choosing to go to Keg/Joeys/Costco/malls etc. Faster traffic and free parking make it a no brainer.

Sadly you're not alone in making those decisions. What's even worse is that the bozos in Vancouver City Hall don't care about such things and might even like it. After all, that's one less person coming into the downtown core which is just what they want. The fact that the downtown business community has been calling for a reversal of policies that deter people from coming downtown to spend their money means nothing to them.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Sadly you're not alone in making those decisions. What's even worse is that the bozos in Vancouver City Hall don't care about such things and might even like it. After all, that's one less person coming into the downtown core which is just what they want. The fact that the downtown business community has been calling for a reversal of policies that deter people from coming downtown to spend their money means nothing to them.

I think there's a critical mass of residents downtown that it doesn't really matter. Certainly Costco, Future Shop and other box stores that have opened downtown are jam packed whenever I'm in them.

The idea of going downtown to shop died with Woodwards. It's possible to come down for some high end brand that isn't available elsewhere, but so what?

I'd love to see a Target downtown, similar to other cities, but cest la vie.

To say that the city council, any city council, is actively trying to get people to spend their money elsewhere is silly.

[NewWester]

I think perhaps you guys are overestimating the grand exodus of shoppers from downtown. I feel like there is at least a balance of people making trips out of Vancouver to dine and shop and people heading into the city to dine and shop. I mean, I live out in New West but aside from like grocery errands am much more likely to go clothing or retail shopping downtown (since Metrotown on the weekend is not a fun place to visit) and Vancouver has a far more interesting collection of restaurant options than Burnaby or New West. (And the fact that I can get downtown easily without driving is kind of a plus for dining, since then I can actually have a few drinks.) I think the idea that people are actively being discouraged from visiting the city is unrealistic.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by NewWester

I think perhaps you guys are overestimating the grand exodus of shoppers from downtown. I feel like there is at least a balance of people making trips out of Vancouver to dine and shop and people heading into the city to dine and shop. I mean, I live out in New West but aside from like grocery errands am much more likely to go clothing or retail shopping downtown (since Metrotown on the weekend is not a fun place to visit) and Vancouver has a far more interesting collection of restaurant options than Burnaby or New West. (And the fact that I can get downtown easily without driving is kind of a plus for dining, since then I can actually have a few drinks.) I think the idea that people are actively being discouraged from visiting the city is unrealistic.

I'd have to agree with your conclusions but not based on your reasoning. If you look at statistics from a few years ago, the retail business broke down:

Downtown Vancouver Service = 3,760 businesses
Metro Vancouver Service = 37,708 businesses

Downtown Vancouver Retail = 1,234 businesses
Metro Vancouver Retail = 22,730 businesses

So Downtown Service businsesses account for about 10% of all metro-vancouver services, and retail 5%. That means 90% of all service businesses aren't downtown and 95% of all retail isn't downtown.

We put Downtown up on this pedastal as where everyone goes, when the truth (including commercial/business numbers between Vancouver as a whole and the region as a whole) statistically is that downtown isn't the regional focus for a lot of things. Sure it has a lot of services you can't find anywhere else and has a lot of nice high rises giving it a look of where all the action is, but that isn't the reality and most people outside downtown even in Vancouver itself, adventure to downtown Vancouver very few times per year if ever.

So I don't think there is a grand exodus of shoppers from down town but not because as you said it is being overestimated, but rather because it already has happened years ago. People who shop downtown, shop downtown. People who don't, don't. So additional services and retail outside downtown just compensates for the population increases outside and vice versa.

Remember both areas are growing in population. If you +10,000 people in downtown and +100 retail outlets, those 100 retail outlets are to serve that +10,000 downtown. Same deal with outside downtown. If you +100,000 and +x retail, it just covers those new people.

But generally I believe the percentages remain the same per capita.

Vancouver isn't hurting retail wise though it is evolving. Vancouver is hurting industry wise but it is trying to compensate through moving towards white-collar jobs aka consultants, high-tech, finance, etc. to fill the gap. Retail is retail and people in general like to shop close to home.

Yes once in a while I will go downtown or to Metrotown to do some shopping. But I live in Surrey so 98% of my shopping is done there be it groceries, running to the store quick, going to Guildford or Walmart, or Canadian Tire for general stuff. Same goes everywhere else. Someone in Brentwood will do most of their shopping there. People living in Richmond will do most of their shopping there.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I live a bit closer to downtown but find myself always going to Burnaby when choosing to go to Keg/Joeys/Costco/malls etc. Faster traffic and free parking make it a no brainer.

Really? You've never stepped foot into the Costco's I've gone into be it in Surrey, Langley, or Coquitlam if you think the downtown one is busy. You stand in line to pay for a good hour with 39821039283 people all around. I don't think downtown is any busier, it's Costco in general. Also the Keg in Yaletown I've never had any issue and have gotten reservations far easier in on a Friday or Saturday than out in South Surrey or even Guildford.

I think the issue people downtown or close to are finding is the aversion by Vancouver City Council for the big-box retailers which those of us in the suburbs enjoy. There is this concept about 'ma and pa' shops but the truth is those little shops can't handle the volumes required as populations grow. That's why they are small shops and not big box.

So you had people in downtown or around thinking they live in the center of the universe but having to leave Vancouver to go to big box retail outlets where we have them all over the place in the suburbs.

That's changing though. And really what big-box retailers are missing from downtown itself? Target? That's not the demographic. I think they _should_ have put a Target into Oakridge. That's close enough and with Canada Line, easy to get to.

Walmart? There's one on Grandview. Not really downtown, but not terribly far and you could technically take Millenium Line close to it. You have a Real Canadian Superstore, though again it's on Grandview so a bit of a drive. Future Shop, there is one downtown. Best Buy just across the Cambie bridge along with Canadian Tire.

Downtown is getting a Nordstroms. Has a Bay, probably one of the better in the region at that. So really what else?

Free parking is a big thing in Vancouver as everything seems to be charge, but if you drive to Burnaby or take SkyTrain, you're probably burning that parking fee in gas anyway.

So maybe it is more perception that anything. Same reason like I said, people seem to perceive downtown Vancouver as being the center of the Universe when it actually isn't regionally, maybe you and others perceive it as being extremely busy and traffic filled when it isn't terribly different than what we find in the suburbs.

Walmart Guildford for example. I don't even waste my time shopping there because every time I do, I get to the line ups and there are about 80 people in front of me I kid you not. It's ridiculous and the last time I had the patience to wait, it took me 45 minutes in line to pay for an item it took me 2 minutes to grab.

That crap is everywhere. Even the Superstore now advertises "Weekends, EVERY CHECK OUT OPEN!!!" because it is so damned busy at the Newton and Guildford ones practically every day but especially on the weekends.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by jhausner

Really? You've never stepped foot into the Costco's I've gone into be it in Surrey, Langley, or Coquitlam if you think the downtown one is busy. You stand in line to pay for a good hour with 39821039283 people all around. I don't think downtown is any busier, it's Costco in general. Also the Keg in Yaletown I've never had any issue and have gotten reservations far easier in on a Friday or Saturday than out in South Surrey or even Guildford.

I think the issue people downtown or close to are finding is the aversion by Vancouver City Council for the big-box retailers which those of us in the suburbs enjoy. There is this concept about 'ma and pa' shops but the truth is those little shops can't handle the volumes required as populations grow. That's why they are small shops and not big box.

I didn't say anything about how busy or crowded anything was inside. It's close enough to be a non-factor. The factor is the driving time and parking, as mentioned.

Burnaby is an extremely easy trip across second narrows bridge to me, especially now that Cassiar is six lanes. North Burnaby is basically my hood, separated more psychologically than physically. We even share an electoral district (Burnaby North-Seymour).

I used to like downtown but now I get frustrated with pedestrians ("keep right" doesn't exist anymore south of the inlet), I want to shoot myself after paying $12+ for a night's worth of parking, and I hate hitting a red light every two blocks. Public transit is a wash since it's garbage in both directions. Maybe a slight edge to downtown if they could ever get that third seabus in rotation.

So for example, when my wife wants fish tacos, we take a 10 minute drive down Hwy 1 and park for free at Joey in Madison Centre (Lougheed and Willingdon) rather than spend 20 minutes driving the same distance to the west, then park in an expensive underground lot miles away from Burrard st.

Vancouver obviously doesn't want the "bridge and tunnel" crowd like me but there has only recently been a viable alternative. I'm happy to live near Burnaby and hope it continues to welcome anyone who wants to visit with superior transit and road infrastructure. It's the envy of the metro area IMO, perfect situation - pretty much what you wish Surrey was.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I didn't say anything about how busy or crowded anything was inside. It's close enough to be a non-factor. The factor is the driving time and parking, as mentioned.

Burnaby is an extremely easy trip across second narrows bridge to me, especially now that Cassiar is six lanes. North Burnaby is basically my hood, separated more psychologically than physically. We even share an electoral district (Burnaby North-Seymour).

Ahh. You said you lived "a bit closer to downtown" so I thought you lived in Vancouver itself. North Vancouver to me isn't a bit closer to downtown as during the day it probably takes you as long to get to downtown from your place is it does for me here in Surrey. I categorize close to downtown as being say East Vancouter or Kits or something but failed to read your location at the top you clearly have.

My bad!

I used to like downtown but now I get frustrated with pedestrians ("keep right" doesn't exist anymore south of the inlet), I want to shoot myself after paying $12+ for a night's worth of parking, and I hate hitting a red light every two blocks. Public transit is a wash since it's garbage in both directions. Maybe a slight edge to downtown if they could ever get that third seabus in rotation.

This I can agree with. I think traffic light engineers in Vancouver and Coquitlam graduated from the same school of "how to get cars stuck at every intersection via poorly timed red lights."

I have friends that live in North Van not far from the seabus, and I have often hopped the skytrain at King George the same time they got to the seabus terminal, and with waits and sailings, I've beat them downtown from my place. And they can physically SEE downtown from their balcony. :|

So for example, when my wife wants fish tacos, we take a 10 minute drive down Hwy 1 and park for free at Joey in Madison Centre (Lougheed and Willingdon) rather than spend 20 minutes driving the same distance to the west, then park in an expensive underground lot miles away from Burrard st.

Yah for North Van specifically I can see Brentwood as actually being a huge benefit to you guys. It is a heck of a lot more accessible. This further underlines my point in another post that people want to shop as close to home as possible and that is often defined by travel time and ease of accessibility.

Vancouver obviously doesn't want the "bridge and tunnel" crowd like me but there has only recently been a viable alternative. I'm happy to live near Burnaby and hope it continues to welcome anyone who wants to visit with superior transit and road infrastructure. It's the envy of the metro area IMO, perfect situation - pretty much what you wish Surrey was.

Don't disagree. And I think recent construction in Brentwood these past years has been the big push here in Surrey Central to get with the program so to speak. We have a ways to catch up, but we also have more challenges with actually being farther proximity from "the Center of the MetroVancouververse." Every additional project in Brentwood (and Metrotown to a degree) is another shot across the Surrey bow that claims us the second regional downtown. How can we be the second regional downtown if a subsection of Burnaby is more dense and built up?

Potential only gets you so far. We have to continue getting with the program!



Your points make complete sense to me now though given where you live.