Canadian Retail Thread

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Also very cool. The Australian one has a more pedestrian-friendly scale whereas the Don Mills one is clearly intended for cars, but the latter is still light years beyond most such developments I've seen in Canada.

These kinds of "Lifestyle Centres" are actually kinda old-hat all over the States: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_center_(retail)

[SignalHillHiker]

But they're so poorly done, I wouldn't even include them in the same category. That example from Mount Pearl I posted above could be a Lifestyle Centre as they describe it.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Ramako

These kinds of "Lifestyle Centres" are actually kinda old-hat all over the States: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_center_(retail)

''Shopping trends in Australia are often directly tied to the United States. Research by Morgan Stanley relays that Australia lags behind the US by about five years in their adoption of shopping trends.''
https://theconversation.com/dawn-of-the-...the-us-and-dump-the-shopping-centre-3507

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

But they're so poorly done, I wouldn't even include them in the same category. That example from Mount Pearl I posted above could be a Lifestyle Centre as they describe it.

Some, perhaps, but do a Google Image Search of "lifestyle center" and you'll find many that are quite luxurious. My point is that it's not some wholly novel concept that is exclusive to Australia.

[SignalHillHiker]

I had already started. And yes, you're right.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

''...Asking 'What suburb do you come from?' has long been a standard way for Melburnians to place each other, reflecting the well-established assumptions that the city consists of nothing but suburbs, and that knowing where a person lives is a sure guide to where they belong socially. Only perhaps in the past two decades, as suburban expansion has slowed and ideals of urban consolidation have gained ground, has the long dominance of the suburban ideal been challenged, if not dethroned''

http://www.emelbourne.net.au/biogs/EM01440b.htm

In Montréal, the suburbs were on the island.

What "suburb" means is question of nomenclature in Australia. It basically means "neighbourhood" for us. If Montreal was an Australian city, Centre-Sud would be a suburb, as would Le Plateau, CDN, etc. In Toronto, Rosedale, the Annex, the Beach and Cabbagetown would be "suburbs".

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What "suburb" means is question of nomenclature in Australia. It basically means "neighbourhood" for us. If Montreal was an Australian city, Centre-Sud would be a suburb, as would Le Plateau, CDN, etc. In Toronto, Rosedale, the Annex, the Beach and Cabbagetown would be "suburbs".

Lasalle, Lachine, Verdun, Dorval, etc... suburbs

Plateau is a neighbourhood in the former city of Montréal. before the merger.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Montreal2001.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9306_municipal_reorganization_of_Montreal

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What "suburb" means is question of nomenclature in Australia. It basically means "neighbourhood" for us. If Montreal was an Australian city, Centre-Sud would be a suburb, as would Le Plateau, CDN, etc. In Toronto, Rosedale, the Annex, the Beach and Cabbagetown would be "suburbs".

That's so weird. We did that too but it's faded.

Georgestown is a suburb, even though it's an old, centrally-located neighbourhood - everyone knows it was the city's first. But no one would ever call it a suburb in casual conversation. For that, we say neighbourhood.

But... neighbourhood can mean one of two things. It can be just a geographic area, a suburb, OR a more abstract reference to historic, family boundaries. Georgestown is a neighbourhood, but it has smaller neighbourhoods within in. Little pockets where the families all know each other, marry among each other, etc.

No one on Belvedere would say they live in the same neighbourhood as someone on Maxse if you stopped them in the street and asked. Only when you said you were talking about Georgestown would they agree with the statement.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Lasalle, Lachine, Verdun, Dorval, etc... suburbs

Plateau is a neighbourhood in the former city of Montréal. before the merger.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Montreal2001.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9306_municipal_reorganization_of_Montreal

But in Australia, all of the city centre neighbourhoods are suburbs. Except for actual downtown CBD which is also a suburb that has the name of the entire metro. So Ville-Marie borough would be "Montreal". The rest would have other names.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But in Australia, all of the city centre neighbourhoods are suburbs. Except for actual downtown CBD which is also a suburb that has the name of the entire metro. So Ville-Marie borough would be "Montreal". The rest would have other names.

That why it's called, city of suburbs. They always use the total population in Australia. In Canada, Montréal-Toronto-Vancouver don't do this. here we have CMA. We have a big dominant city surrounded by small ones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_municipalities_in_Canada_by_population

Toronto is larger than Sydney, but in stats, no. unless they use the CMA population.

[Travis007]

Rumours that Mountain Equipment Co-op (MEC) has bought the NW corner parking lot at Queen & Soho in Toronto. According to some sources, they have plans for a flagship store on ground level, commercial offices above, and parking below.

Further rumours that developer Great Gulf may have bought the current MEC site on King.

http://www.buzzbuzzhome.com/chat/general...-to-queen-street-west-with-mec-moving-in

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What does the fact that Australia is isolated have to do with anything?

they can't cross border shop?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

they can't cross border shop?

Somehow I doubt cross-border shopping has much of an impact on the health of our downtowns.

And judging from the downtowns of some of the cross-border shopping destinations in this part of the country (Detroit, Buffalo, Niagara Falls, NY), it doesn't have an impact on them either.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Somehow I doubt cross-border shopping has much of an impact on the health of our downtowns.

And judging from the downtowns of some of the cross-border shopping destinations in this part of the country (Detroit, Buffalo, Niagara Falls, NY), it doesn't have an impact on them either.

I think that has more to do with the fact that those downtowns you speak of don't exist. All the action is in malls. You go to the Galleria in Buffalo and a good chunk of plates are Ontario.

If we had a San Francisco there, I'm sure it would be far more visible.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by flipv

I think that has more to do with the fact that those downtowns you speak of don't exist. All the action is in malls. You go to the Galleria in Buffalo and a good chunk of plates are Ontario.

If we had a San Francisco there, I'm sure it would be far more visible.

I think we might be losing our focus here.

This is how the discussion has gone (or at least this part of it):

- Australian downtowns are better than ours
- Australia is more isolated than Canada
- Because Australia is isolated, people can't cross-border shop
- Cross-border shopping does not seem to hurt Canadian downtowns, nor does it help the ones of cities in the US where Canadians go to shop



For the record, I don't happen to think that the downtowns of major Canadian cities are inferior to those of comparable Australian cities, but when you get down into smaller cities Australia likely has an advantage, and suburban commercial nodes are also on average a lot more attractive Down Under than ours are.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think we might be losing our focus here.

This is how the discussion has gone (or at least this part of it):

- Australian downtowns are better than ours
- Australia is more isolated than Canada
- Because Australia is isolated, people can't cross-border shop
- Cross-border shopping does not seem to hurt Canadian downtowns, nor does it help the ones of cities in the US where Canadians go to shop



For the record, I don't happen to think that the downtowns of major Canadian cities are inferior to those of comparable Australian cities, but when you get down into smaller cities Australia likely has an advantage, and suburban commercial nodes are also on average a lot more attractive Down Under than ours are.

And that's all because it's bloody cold in Canada for six months of the year.

I'd love to have beautiful outdoorsy malls with faux-high streets, but not when it's -20.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by flipv

And that's all because it's bloody cold in Canada for six months of the year.

I'd love to have beautiful outdoorsy malls with faux-high streets, but not when it's -20.

But we already have many outdoorsy "malls" with *real* high streets in this country. They're called Yonge, Yorkville, Bloor, Queen West, Sainte-Catherine, Sherbrooke, Saint-Denis, Saint-Jean, Granville, etc.!

[flipv]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But we already have many outdoorsy "malls" with *real* high streets in this country. They're called Yonge, Yorkville, Bloor, Queen West, Sainte-Catherine, Sherbrooke, Saint-Denis, Saint-Jean, Granville, etc.!

I can assure you not many people are walking those streets today...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by flipv

I can assure you not many people are walking those streets today...

Maybe not but this is an exceptional case, and the fact there are few vacant storefronts along any of them suggests they are indeed very vibrant urban shopping streets.

[Boris2k7]

It's also not uniformly cold everywhere in this country at the same time. With it being +2 in Calgary today, and temperatures ranging up to +9 through the week (and this in January), I can assure you that there are plenty of people out on Stephen Ave today.