Canadian Retail Thread

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

While downtowns in Canada have faired better than their American counterparts, we still seem to lag compared to Australian cities.
In Australia, their smaller cities the size of say Edmonton or Calgary, have much more vibrant downtowns, which are still the main retail area for the metropolitan area.

Interesting how Australia has been able to do this, yet our smaller cities have not been able to.

have you been to edmonton or calgary?

i was in downtown edmonton just before christmas, no offense to edmontonians it was just gross, snow, slush etc. not very enjoyable to walk around - the mall wins out most months

will have to wait till next summer to check it out when its better perhaps

the downtown bay store was kinda weird felt like a suburban store, nothing really popped, didn't stay very long inside it

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Australia is isolated.

What does the fact that Australia is isolated have to do with anything?

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What does the fact that Australia is isolated have to do with anything?

Australia is basically a huge desert. urban population is bigger % than in Canada. 89% vs 81% . Go in Google maps, and you will see why.
http://www.australia.com/about/australias-landscapes/coastal.aspx

the vibrant downtowns in North America are close to water.

same thing.

[Sova]

I stayed at the ALT hotel in Quartier DIX30 for a tennis tournament I was playing in at Sani Sport in Brossard a few months ago. At first I was pissed that the tournament hotel wasn't downtown but…..it wasn't bad.

I could catch a movie, go to a restaurant, do some shopping, hit the gym, go for coffee etc. all within steps of my hotel room.

OK the restaurants were tacky, the shopping was mediocre, and the coffee was Starbucks. But still a good option for distant relatives coming from overseas to attend a wedding.

To compare, two years ago I played in some tournaments in Melbourne and Sydney suburbs and only had options of Hooters, a grocery store, or McDonalds.

DIX30 was a much better experience.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Australia is basically a huge desert. urban population is bigger % than in Canada. 89% vs 81% . Go in Google maps, and you will see why.
http://www.australia.com/about/australias-landscapes/coastal.aspx

the vibrant downtowns in North America are close to water.

same thing.

You still haven't explained what that has to do with Australian cities managing to maintain more vibrant downtowns. Australian cities sprawl even more than ours do yet their suburban malls still play second fiddle to downtown.

Has it ever occurred to you that the world's biggest cities tend to develop next to water and that vibrant downtown's are simply a result of having a big city?

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by isaidso

You still haven't explained what that has to do with Australian cities managing to maintain more vibrant downtowns. Australian cities sprawl even more than ours do yet their suburban malls still play second fiddle to downtown.

Has it ever occurred to you that the world's biggest cities tend to develop next to water and that vibrant downtown's are simply a result of having a big city?

Our suburbs are more independant, they were built to be independant cities, than became part of the suburbs of the main city. Montréal-Toronto-Vancouver

Calgary-Edmonton are very centralised. Ottawa has Gatineau, independant city suburb with a downtown.

In Canada we have something called winter, 6 months cold. You can't compare Brisbane or Perth with Calgary or Edmonton. People don't walk downtown when it's -20c. Even in Montréal. Record low -0.7c for Perth , 3.0c for Brisbane. So only 6 months to live outside in Canada. That changes the dynamics of a city. If there was no underground city in Montréal, the downtown core would be almost dead in the winter most of the time.

[Innsertnamehere]

I think you overestimate the cold. It may have an effect when it drops to -20, but so does the heat when it's 40 in Australia. Most winter days, where it is -10 or above, people won't avoid going outside. They won't be sitting on patios, but they will be walking around.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Our suburbs are more independant, they were built to be independant cities, than became part of the suburbs of the main city. Montréal-Toronto-Vancouver

Calgary-Edmonton are very centralised. Ottawa has Gatineau, independant city suburb with a downtown.

.

Australian metros are made up of communities that used to be independent cities as well. In fact, suburban "town centres" in Australian cities are almost always better and more vibrant than our suburban town centres.

The main difference is really in urban structure. Suburban town centres in Australian tend to have traditional main streets instead of strip malls, and parking is either underground or at the back of the stores.

Whereas in Canada even where suburbs have traditional main streets they are often dead and even if they are not they are no longer the main shopping destination in the suburb because they almost certainly lost that status to a strip mall boulevard a few decades ago.

[GreaterMontréal]

They won't be sitting on patios, but they will be walking around.

''If there was no underground,the downtown core would be almost dead in the winter most of the time.''
snowstorms, windchill, ice, cold wave...

yes they walk (a lot less people), but the fun factor is gone (wind corridors). When it's 40 humidex, the streets are full. The city is alive.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

''If there was no underground,the downtown core would be almost dead in the winter most of the time.''
snowstorms, windchill, ice, cold wave...

yes they walk (a lot less people), but the fun factor is gone (wind corridors). When it's 40 humidex, the streets are full. The city is alive.

That's us. Not Australians. Hot weather is a novelty for us. Not for them.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Australian metros are made up of communities that used to be independent cities as well. In fact, suburban "town centres" in Australian cities are almost always better and more vibrant than our suburban town centres.

The main difference is really in urban structure. Suburban town centres in Australian tend to have traditional main streets instead of strip malls, and parking is either underground or at the back of the stores.

Whereas in Canada even where suburbs have traditional main streets they are often dead and even if they are not they are no longer the main shopping destination in the suburb because they almost certainly lost that status to a strip mall boulevard a few decades ago.

I hate that so much. It just slays me to think we had just a nice, dense, basically 100% urban city as late as the 1950s and then, boom, just went NUTS with the worst of popular urban planning in North America at the time. If we had just held out another few years, or stuck with our European style...

Now 50% of our city's population, and... I don't know for sure, but I'd guess about 70% of its urban area... is the worst of suburban.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I hate that so much. It just slays me to think we had just a nice, dense, basically 100% urban city as late as the 1950s and then, boom, just went NUTS with the worst of popular urban planning in North America at the time. If we had just held out another few years, or stuck with our European style...

Now 50% of our city's population, and... I don't know for sure, but I'd guess about 70% of its urban area... is the worst of suburban.

This is where my friends in affluent, north-shore suburban Sydney, go to shop for everyday needs. This is a pretty auto-dependent area totally dominated by single-family homes.

http://goo.gl/maps/sthQx

[SignalHillHiker]

So jealous.

This is, no exaggeration, the most urban pocket in suburban St. John's. It's Bannister/Centennial/Commonwealth in Mount Pearl.

We have 50% of our CMA's population living outside the City of St. John's (predominantly in the City of Mount Pearl, Town of CBS, and Town of Paradise). And this the closest thing they have to urbanity.

It's all downhill from here...

http://goo.gl/maps/zRGe1

[Acajack]

Where rapidly-developing and sprawling outer suburbia of Sydney goes to shop:

http://goo.gl/maps/oHRqR

[SignalHillHiker]

Wow. Even the little lanes are very urban:

http://goo.gl/maps/UAjzO

Very impressed!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Wow. Even the little lanes are very urban:

http://goo.gl/maps/UAjzO

Very impressed!

We're completely bereft of imagination and originality here. With only a few rare exceptions.

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Where rapidly-developing and sprawling outer suburbia of Sydney goes to shop:

http://goo.gl/maps/oHRqR

This reminds me a lot of the Shops at Don Mills: http://goo.gl/maps/zUkJl

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Ramako

This reminds me a lot of the Shops at Don Mills: http://goo.gl/maps/zUkJl

Also very cool. The Australian one has a more pedestrian-friendly scale whereas the Don Mills one is clearly intended for cars, but the latter is still light years beyond most such developments I've seen in Canada.

[GreaterMontréal]

In fact, suburban "town centres" in Australian cities are almost always better and more vibrant than our suburban town centres.

'' Australian cities sprawl even more than ours do yet their suburban malls still play second fiddle to downtown.''
''Suburban town centres in Australian tend to have traditional main streets instead of strip malls''

We also have that in Canada. Each small town has a main street. It's the small town mentality, + good suburban malls since the 60-70s. regional malls

''Perth shoppers charmed by suburban high-street shopping over big malls''
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-...r-big-malls/story-fnhocxo3-1226756464336

''Some planners and urban sophisticates view suburban shopping malls with disdain. Yet they offer choice, convenience, walkability and ‘buzz’. Oh, and the 90%+ who live in the suburbs like them''
''The great bulk of the Australian population seem very partial to them; over the last 50-60 years they’ve comprehensively out-competed the traditional high street as the key destination for variety shopping.''
''Malls are popular because they cater to a range of budgets in the low to middling range. More feted strip centres like those in the inner city, on the other hand, often specialise in a limited range of up-market uses, especially restaurants and bars.''
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2...n-shopping-malls-deserve-all-the-hatred/

Australian metros are made up of communities that used to be independent cities as well

''...Asking 'What suburb do you come from?' has long been a standard way for Melburnians to place each other, reflecting the well-established assumptions that the city consists of nothing but suburbs, and that knowing where a person lives is a sure guide to where they belong socially. Only perhaps in the past two decades, as suburban expansion has slowed and ideals of urban consolidation have gained ground, has the long dominance of the suburban ideal been challenged, if not dethroned''

http://www.emelbourne.net.au/biogs/EM01440b.htm

In Montréal, the suburbs were on the island.

[GreaterMontréal]

That's us. Not Australians. Hot weather is a novelty for us. Not for them.

Sydney is not really ''hotter'' than Montréal in the summer.
max average high 25.9c Sydney
max average high 26.6c Montréal + we have humidex
max average high 26,7c Melbourne
In Montréal we can't go to 40c+ without humidex because of the humidity, high dewp.
humidex record 45-48

Summer, it's a tie.