Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

No way SLC is similar to Denver, Boston, and Vegas.

City population really has nothing to do with it. Boise city has more people that the city of Salt Lake City. That's why I think tourism, major business HQ's, and airport, are the 3 things you look at.

Here is how I look at it...
Top Dog Major: New York, LA, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, DC, Boston, Seattle, Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, San Francisco, Las Vegas
Major: Denver, St. Louis, Honolulu, Charlotte, San Antonio, Baltimore, San Diego, Portland, Kansas City, Orlando, Phoenix, Cleveland, Detroit, Minneapolis......etc.....
Midsize: Austin, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, San Jose, Raleigh, Tampa, New Orleans, Nashville, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis.....etc.....
Small: Omaha, Albuquerque, Reno, Savannah, Myrtle Beach, El Paso, Boise, Colorado Springs, Provo, Madison, Wichita, Fargo, Knoxville, Syracuse.....etc....
Extra Small: Santa Barbara, Bellingham, Burlington, St. George, Palm Springs, Gainesville.....etc.....
Extra Extra Small: Vail, Monterey, Park City.....etc.....

Then maybe we're all wrong when it comes to judging this stuff, LOL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_world_cities#Alpha_world_cities

Are you basing this off of city population, or merto population??

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

Are you basing this off of city population, or merto population??

metro population, tourism, airport system. It's opinionated.

I changed mine a little bit.
Here is how I look at it, after a closer look...

Top Dog Major: New York, LA, Chicago.

Large Major: Atlanta, Philadelphia, Las Vegas, Houston, Dallas, Seattle, San Francisco, Miami, DC, Boston.

Major: Denver, St. Louis, Honolulu, Charlotte, San Antonio, Baltimore, San Diego, Portland, Kansas City, Orlando, Phoenix, Cleveland, Detroit, Minneapolis......etc.....

Midsize: Austin, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, San Jose, Raleigh, Tampa, New Orleans, Nashville, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Oakland.....etc.....

Small: Omaha, Albuquerque, Reno, Savannah, Myrtle Beach, El Paso, Boise, Colorado Springs, Akron, Provo, Madison, Eugene, Wichita, Fargo, Knoxville, Syracuse.....etc....

Extra Small: Santa Barbara, Bellingham, Burlington, St. George, Palm Springs, Gainesville.....etc.....

Extra Extra Small: Vail, Monterey, Park City.....etc.....

[spoonman]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

metro population, tourism, airport system. It's opinionated.

I changed mine a little bit.
Here is how I look at it, after a closer look...

Top Dog Major: New York, LA, Chicago.

Large Major: Atlanta, Philadelphia, Las Vegas, Houston, Dallas, Seattle, San Francisco, Miami, DC, Boston.

Major: Denver, St. Louis, Honolulu, Charlotte, San Antonio, Baltimore, San Diego, Portland, Kansas City, Orlando, Phoenix, Cleveland, Detroit, Minneapolis......etc.....

Midsize: Austin, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, San Jose, Raleigh, Tampa, New Orleans, Nashville, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Oakland.....etc.....

Small: Omaha, Albuquerque, Reno, Savannah, Myrtle Beach, El Paso, Boise, Colorado Springs, Akron, Provo, Madison, Eugene, Wichita, Fargo, Knoxville, Syracuse.....etc....

Extra Small: Santa Barbara, Bellingham, Burlington, St. George, Palm Springs, Gainesville.....etc.....

Extra Extra Small: Vail, Monterey, Park City.....etc.....

Based on population, I would move Vegas down 2, and Seattle down 1.

Seattle, San Diego, and Minneapolis, and to a lesser extent Denver are all of similar size.

[mobius42]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

No way SLC is similar to Denver, Boston, and Vegas.

City population really has nothing to do with it. Boise city has more people that the city of Salt Lake City. That's why I think tourism, major business HQ's, and airport, are the 3 things you look at.

Here is how I look at it, after a closer look...
Top Dog Major: New York, LA, Chicago.
Large Major: Atlanta, Philadelphia, Las Vegas, Houston, Dallas, Seattle, San Francisco, Miami, DC, Boston.
Major: Denver, St. Louis, Honolulu, Charlotte, San Antonio, Baltimore, San Diego, Portland, Kansas City, Orlando, Phoenix, Cleveland, Detroit, Minneapolis......etc.....
Midsize: Austin, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, San Jose, Raleigh, Tampa, New Orleans, Nashville, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis.....etc.....
Small: Omaha, Albuquerque, Reno, Savannah, Myrtle Beach, El Paso, Boise, Colorado Springs, Provo, Madison, Wichita, Fargo, Knoxville, Syracuse.....etc....
Extra Small: Santa Barbara, Bellingham, Burlington, St. George, Palm Springs, Gainesville.....etc.....
Extra Extra Small: Vail, Monterey, Park City.....etc.....

Then maybe we're all wrong when it comes to judging this stuff, LOL.

According to this, SLC is a "High Sufficiency" city along with Las Vegas, Raleigh, Nashville, Jacksonville for cities in the U.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_world_cities#Alpha_world_cities

I generally agree with your list but I think you give Vegas way too much credit. Vegas is internationally known, I'll give you that. Vegas doesn't have the population or the corporate headquarters/economy to be ranked where you put them. I agree with spoonman. Vegas should be two levels lower.

[RC14]

My list:
Mega cities
New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
Chicago
Big enough to be beyond the rest of the pack but not big enough to be a supper city.
Major Cities
Philly
Atlanta
Seattle
Denver
Phoenix
Etc
This is a wide brush and these can probably be divided into subcategories
but I would consider them all major.
Next level down
If Major cities are like major league baseball teams these are the minor leagues
Salt Lake City
Las Vegas
Portland
Honolulu
Charlotte
New Orleans
etc
Midsize cities
Boise
Provo
Spokane
Everett, WA
Little Rock
El Paso
etc

[Dallas Snob]

I'm not sure how you are setting your criteria, but this info is readily available. And Dallas by the way is bigger than Houston MSA wise and is the 4th largest metro in the US. With 7 million people, it is predicted to eclipse Chicago by 2030...15 short years from now.

Top 10 airports by traffic movements 2010
ATLANTA GA, 950,119(2.1)2
CHICAGO IL, 882,6176.63
LOS ANGELES CA, 666,9384.8
DALLAS/FORT WORTH TX, 52,2612.1
DENVER CO, 30,0893.8
HOUSTON TX, 531,347
CHARLOTTE NC, 29,1013.9
BEIJING, CN 517,582
LAS VEGAS NV, S505,591
PARIS, FR 499,997

Top 10 airports by passenger traffic 2010
ATLANTA GA, 89,331,6221.52
BEIJING, CN 73,891,80113.03
CHICAGO IL, 66,665,3903.34
LONDON, GB 65,884,143
TOKYO, JP 64,069,0983.46
LOS ANGELES CA, 58,915,1004.2
PARIS, FR 58,167,0620.4
DALLAS/FORT WORTH TX, 56,906,6101.6
FRANKFURT, DE 53,009,2214.11
DENVER CO, 52,211,2424.1

[Wasatch_One]

Originally Posted by RC14

My list:
Mega cities
New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
Chicago
Big enough to be beyond the rest of the pack but not big enough to be a supper city.
Major Cities
Philly
Atlanta
Seattle
Denver
Phoenix
Etc
This is a wide brush and these can probably be divided into subcategories
but I would consider them all major.
Next level down
If Major cities are like major league baseball teams these are the minor leagues
Salt Lake City
Las Vegas
Portland
Honolulu
Charlotte
New Orleans
etc
Midsize cities
Boise
Provo
Spokane
Everett, WA
Little Rock
El Paso
etc

Why is Honolulu getting so much love? The entire metro is under 1M and its so secluded that it doesn't really play a major role in commerce/business. It's entirely based around tourists and second homes. One thing that it has going for it that some of the other midsized cities don't is that it's a crossroads with Asia so you have more of an international influence. However, for the same reasons that you're lowering Las Vegas, I would put Honolulu on par with the likes of Boise, ABQ, Des Moines, Omaha, El Paso where it's the biggest city in the region but not really a large city.

[DCRes]

It may not be the most scientific method of ranking but it kind of works. I judge the size of a city by the number of major sports teams they have. The 4 major being NBA, NFL, MLB, & NHL. MLS is right behind those but due to it being a relatively new league and the fact that it is not the top league in the world in it's respective sport i don't consider it on the same level (no one get offended, I love RSL and I know they have great attendance, I just don't think it's on the same level as the others). Major cities are the only ones that have all sports (I know LA doesn't have NFL, but they should and they will one day) and the real big dogs are the ones that have multiple teams from one league in one city. This puts LA, New York, and Chicago as the big dogs. SLC has one of the major 4, plus MLS, and I think that puts us about right with Sacramento, San Antonio, San Jose, even Portland, etc. Like i said, it's not an exact science, Seattle lost the Sonics, Austin has no teams, but it works.

Denver - NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL
Phoenix - NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL
LA/Anaheim - NBA (2x), NHL (2x), MLB (2x)
Chicago - NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB 9(2x)
etc, etc, etc

[Future Mayor]

It's all subject to exactly what parameters you decide to use. We have the airport list, then you have to decide whether or not you use the MSA or the CSA population, then you have to decided at what population amount do you make the cut offs. For instance below I have Mega Cities at 9mil+ but NYC has 10mil more than Chicago.

You could then throw in the number of corporate headquarters, and number of tourist or choose tourist dollars spent. Basing it off one or two and leaving out another could drastically change the results. So unless all the parameters are agreed upon it's hard to definitively define a list. Except for possibly the top 2 or 3.

Here is the MSA list. 2012 estimated However CSA ranks often differ because they include other msa's, case in point SLC goes from 50 to 24 MSA/CSA, Cleveland also jumps, 29 to 15. CSA rank listed in bold after the city.

Mega Cities: (9,000,000+)
1 NYC 19.8 1
2 LA 13 2
3 Chicago 9.5 3

Big Cities: (5,000,000 - 8,999,999)
4 Dallas 6.7 8
5 Houston 6.1 10
6 Philly 9 7
7 DC 5.8 4
8 Miami 5.7 9
9 Atlanta 5.4 11

Large Cities (2,000,000 - 4,999,999)
10 Boston 4.6 6
11 San Fran 4.4 5
12 Riverside/San Bernadino 4.3 included in SF MSA
13 Phoenix 4.3 no CSA only MSA
14 Detroit 4.2 12
15 Seattle 3.5 13
16 Minneapolis 3.4 14
17 San Diego 3.1 no CSA only MSA
18 Tampa 2.8 no CSA only MSA
19 St Louis 2.7 19
20 Baltimore 2.7 included in DC CSA
21 Denver 2.6 16
22 Pittsburgh 2.3 20
23 Charlotte 2.2 22
24 Portland 2.2 17
25 San Antonio 2.2 no CSA only MSA
26 Orlando 2.2 18
27 Sacramento 2.1 21
28 Cincinnati 2.1 28
29 Cleveland 2 15
30 Kansas Cit 2 23
31 Vegas 2 27

Medium Cities (1,000,000 - 1,999,999)
32 Columbus 1.9 25
33 Indianapolis 1.9 26
34 San Jose 1.8 included in SF CSA
35 Austin 1.7 Wasn't listed on csa page
36 Nashville 1.7 31
37 Virginia Beach 1.6 32
38 Providence 1.6 included in Boston CSA
39 Milwaukee 1.5 29
40 Jacksonville 1.3 34
41 Memphis 1.3 40
42 OKC 1.2 Wasn't listed on csa page
43 Louisville 1.2 36
44 Richmond 1.2 Wasn't listed on csa page
45 New Orleans 1.2 37
46 Hartford 1.2 35
47 Raleigh 1.1 30
48 Birmingham 1.1 42
49 Buffalo 1.144
#50 Salt Lake City 1.1 24

It is however fun to speculate, and there is nothing wrong with stating what each persons opinion is in their mind of what cities fall where. That is the entire purpose of opinions, because in their mind that's where each city falls, and in another persons mind different cities may be in those categories.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by DCRes

It may not be the most scientific method of ranking but it kind of works. I judge the size of a city by the number of major sports teams they have. The 4 major being NBA, NFL, MLB, & NHL. MLS is right behind those but due to it being a relatively new league and the fact that it is not the top league in the world in it's respective sport i don't consider it on the same level (no one get offended, I love RSL and I know they have great attendance, I just don't think it's on the same level as the others). Major cities are the only ones that have all sports (I know LA doesn't have NFL, but they should and they will one day) and the real big dogs are the ones that have multiple teams from one league in one city. This puts LA, New York, and Chicago as the big dogs. SLC has one of the major 4, plus MLS, and I think that puts us about right with Sacramento, San Antonio, San Jose, even Portland, etc. Like i said, it's not an exact science, Seattle lost the Sonics, Austin has no teams, but it works.

Denver - NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL
Phoenix - NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL
LA/Anaheim - NBA (2x), NHL (2x), MLB (2x)
Chicago - NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB 9(2x)
etc, etc, etc

I often times look at cities the same way, because I'm a sports fan, and that's what my mind relates to. That puts Columbus on the same level as SLC and Portland, with a Major and MLS. But often times people don't think about Columbus because it's the third major city in Ohio.

[UTPlanner]

I just heard a little bit of info about the office tower proposed at about 151 S. State Street. They are looking to increase the height a bit to 18 stories. Just thought people may be interested.

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

I just heard a little bit of info about the office tower proposed at about 151 S. State Street. They are looking to increase the height a bit to 18 stories. Just thought people may be interested.

First rendering was about 9 floors, then another up to 14 floors and now it's up to 18 floors. This building is getting better and better. hopefully it will keep the sexy angled glass.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by StevenF

First rendering was about 9 floors, then another up to 14 floors and now it's up to 18 floors. This building is getting better and better. hopefully it will keep the sexy angled glass.

I agree, 18 floors is absolutely fantastic news, I liked it at 9 and 14, but this is even better. It will now be taller than its two closest neighbors; 185 S. is 13 floors and Parkside is 14, Broadway Center a block down is only 14 as well.

[EPdesign]

UTPlanner is Right! wow. it looks so nice too. I can't wait. Or maybe I can just to see if they'll add a few more floors. lol except for Height, I think I like it more than the 111


http://www.dixonslc.com/?section=office

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

UTPlanner is Right! wow. it looks so nice too. I can't wait. Or maybe I can just to see if they'll add a few more floors. lol except for Height, I think I like it more than the 111


http://www.dixonslc.com/?section=office

When will ground be broken on this tower and when can we expect to see it complete?

[SLC Projects]

151 is turning out to be a bad ass tower. Love it!!! At 18-stories would put it about as tall as the Zion's Bank building. 151 could make somewhat of an impact to the skyline.

[ctobsl]

That is a very nice sexy (now I can say tower instead of stub) tower.
It will look very nice in the skyline looking at it from the East.

And to quote EPdesign "wow. it looks so nice too. I can't wait. Or maybe I can just to see if they'll add a few more floors."

Add more, add more...!

[UTPlanner]

This project is still in a design phase and the developers are only have conversations with city officials. We're still months away from any talk of groundbreakings or anything like that.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

151 is turning out to be a bad ass tower. Love it!!! At 18-stories would put it about as tall as the Zion's Bank building. 151 could make somewhat of an impact to the skyline.

151 would definitely help fill in the gap between The Regent and One Utah Center. 111 will help as well.

[TonyAnderson]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I often times look at cities the same way, because I'm a sports fan, and that's what my mind relates to. That puts Columbus on the same level as SLC and Portland, with a Major and MLS. But often times people don't think about Columbus because it's the third major city in Ohio.

You're forgetting pro football (Ohio State). Columbus is quietly becoming the #1 city of Ohio. It's got the population, the capital, and the main university.