Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[ToysNoiz]

I don't think anyone up in the chairs has a real concept of urban design. I love the idea of limiting the amount of square footage for a building footprint. Only issue I see with that is the higher cost of construction.

Those NYC buildings are the perfect height to be hopping along 200 S. And Look! There's retail in the base! They are square, but cool.

And yes, 'bout time we all realize that Salt Lake is a MAJOR US CITY AND STATE CAPITAL.

[Stenar]

10 Cities Where You're Most Likely To Achieve the American Dream

A new study from The Equality of Opportunity Project has mapped the 10 best and the 10 worst cities for economic mobility in the United States. Researchers from Harvard University and the University of California at Berkeley used millions of anonymous earnings records to measure the chance that someone born into the bottom fifth of income earners reaches the top fifth.

1. Salt Lake City, Utah (11.5%)


Source: http://www.policymic.com/articles/78351/...ost-likely-to-achieve-the-american-dream

[Stenar]

Huh? What? Is this directed at me?

I never said anything snarky about passing Iowa, etc. It would be great for Utah to pass other states in population because most people outside seem to think this place is filled with quakers, wives and sheep. More development will come to Utah the higher up the population chart we move.

Are you referring to the quote in your comment? That was snarky? It was very dry and clinical. I just said it won't take very long to pass up Iowa.

And after I posted that comment, I found out that Utah had increased 500,000 or so in the last 10 years and then realized it wouldn't take quite as long as I thought to surpass Connecticut.

Originally Posted by (Eco)nomy_404

Exactly my point. I put up a picture of the capital of Iowa saying I would take a population that could produce that kind of a skyline any day - meaning I find it a worthwhile milestone for us to pass up their population in the next few years. This was in response to your snarky, sarcastic remark seemingly implying that passing such a state's population meant absolutely nothing. Going only as far back as 2000, Utah had 450,000 less people than either Kansas or Arkansas while we had 600,000 less than Mississippi and 700,000 less than Iowa. Back then, we had 75% of Iowa`s population - today, we have 75% of Oregon`s population. We are certainly making good progress in a short period of time. I realize you often take negative outlooks on things, but can`t we just appreciate the fact that we are moving up in the world?

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by Stenar

10 Cities Where You're Most Likely To Achieve the American Dream

A new study from The Equality of Opportunity Project has mapped the 10 best and the 10 worst cities for economic mobility in the United States. Researchers from Harvard University and the University of California at Berkeley used millions of anonymous earnings records to measure the chance that someone born into the bottom fifth of income earners reaches the top fifth.

1. Salt Lake City, Utah (11.5%)


Source: http://www.policymic.com/articles/78351/...ost-likely-to-achieve-the-american-dream

Got to love the guy that went, "Salt Lake City represent". Also noticed that Salt lake was the only one there that didn't get a real skyline shot. Though the temple and sunset sure are pretty.

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by Stenar

10 Cities Where You're Most Likely To Achieve the American Dream
1. Salt Lake City, Utah (11.5%)


Source: http://www.policymic.com/articles/78351/...ost-likely-to-achieve-the-american-dream

Wow, that's really great. But come on, website. Can you put up a nice skyline photo of SLC like you did with the other cities? The temple photo is really nice, but there is more here!

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

I don't think anyone up in the chairs has a real concept of urban design. I love the idea of limiting the amount of square footage for a building footprint. Only issue I see with that is the higher cost of construction.

Those NYC buildings are the perfect height to be hopping along 200 S. And Look! There's retail in the base! They are square, but cool.

And yes, 'bout time we all realize that Salt Lake is a MAJOR US CITY AND STATE CAPITAL.

Well it is a state capital. I wouldn't call Salt Lake a major U.S. city, though.

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds

Well it is a state capital. I wouldn't call Salt Lake a major U.S. city, though.

I don't mean like New York or Chicago. But Salt Lake goes along with Phoenix, Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Denver. All major metros.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds

Well it is a state capital. I wouldn't call Salt Lake a major U.S. city, though.

Yep, SLC is a major U.S. city. And it's time people start realizing that.

[CofIKid]

I know it was discussed earlier, but Rocky Mountain Power had six crews working above ground on the power lines along 100 South between 400 West and 200 West tonight. There were also crews working below the streets. I am curious if they decided to take the lines down or are adding to them.

[Stenar]

By the way, remember when I quoted someone at the city who said the Marriott by the ESA arena was going to be 10 stories? And we weren't sure if that was correct?

I finally had a chance to go look at the rendering posted on the construction site and it seemed to show the Marriott being taller than the Hyatt....

Unfortunately, I didn't have my phone on me, so I didn't snap a photo. Anyone?

[jimmycdii]

Originally Posted by DerrickSLC

The city is not lacking vision but determination and ability to implement/execute such practices.

Why is that? I noticed this in Provo when I lived there too; as I met the people in the city (planners and engineers for example) I discovered they were very knowledgable and shared my preference for more "urban" design. But then suburban structures keep going up all the time. SLC is a little better with this, but it still seems like the will to do this stuff lags far behind the actual knowledge of the people in charge.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Yep, SLC is a major U.S. city. And it's time people start realizing that.

No SLC is NOT a major city. I personally believe it's more comparable to cities such as Austin, San Jose, and Sacramento. Those cities and SLC are all mid-sized cities with decent metropolitan populations and good growth.

For me the three things that make a city 'major' are its city center, its tourism, and its airport. For many people the airport is the first thing people are going to experience and see of the city. A major airport needs to be modern, easily accessible (train, distance between city and airport, bus service, etc.), and have a good amount of international service. SLC, Sacramento, Austin, and San Jose all have good downtowns. They're all modern and all continue to show growth from their downtowns.

The thing that is really hurting the building high rise potential in SLC is the urban growth and the office buildings being built in the suburbs. We all know this though so I'm not going to expand on how I feel about this.

To me though major cities are NYC, Chicago, L.A., Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle, Miami, Houston, Boston, Las Vegas, San Fran, D.C., Philly. They are all known across the world, all have big airports that have great international service, their airports serve as hubs for major airlines, most are headquarters for major businesses, they all have great city centers, and all are places tourist visit (yes, tourism is up in Philly and Houston).

While I think SLC is more similar to Sacramento, Austin, and San Jose, which is great company, I do believe SLC has the potential in the next 3-10 years to really move up in the outlook of people and to be more comparable to cities like Portland, Denver, San Antonio, San Diego, Minneapolis, and Phoenix, which I think is the next level of cities after major cities.

[EPdesign]

This is not even a real idea but I was thinking how cool it would be if they did something the Aria, Cosmopolitan, Vedara, etc...complex. That would be so cool.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

I don't mean like New York or Chicago. But Salt Lake goes along with Phoenix, Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Denver. All major metros.

Not really. Beyond Vegas, those are all major media markets with substantial economies (and Vegas can be clumped in with that too). Denver is far and away more major than Salt Lake - from sports to development to influence.

That isn't to say Salt Lake hasn't grown. But comparing Salt Lake to Phoenix or Denver is like comparing Boise or Colorado Springs to Salt Lake - they're not really in the same tier right now.

I'd put Salt Lake just below those cities, though. Mid-major, maybe?

If the country were college basketball conferences, Salt Lake would probably be the old WAC - with Denver and what not being the Mountain West and Los Angeles the Pac-12.

[UTPlanner]

The Marriott Courtyard proposed adjacent to the Hyatt Hotel on 100 South is 6 stories high with executive condos on the top level.

Also reading back, the site of the Sizzler on 400 South was discussed. The restaurant is definitely closed but nobody has been in to discuss the site. Hopefully, the owner has a clue and some vision and doesn't try and just lease it as a different restaurant.

With regard to making a blanket statement that SLC staff, Planning Commission and/or City Council do not have a clue about urban design, I don't think that is a fair statement There are certainly some who do not but there are also some very talented people here. There is a constant balance between regulation and property rights. Where should the line be drawn? How much regulation is too much regulation? It's easy for a smaller community to individualy review each development that comes in but it is not feasible in SLC.

Having said that, I think that the city should have higher design standards in certain districts in the city but that is a policy change that needs to be initiated by the City Council. Until then we can only enforce the limited regulation that exists in the zoning ordinance.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

No SLC is NOT a major city. I personally believe it's more comparable to cities such as Austin, San Jose, and Sacramento. Those cities and SLC are all mid-sized cities with decent metropolitan populations and good growth.

For me the three things that make a city 'major' are its city center, its tourism, and its airport. For many people the airport is the first thing people are going to experience and see of the city. A major airport needs to be modern, easily accessible (train, distance between city and airport, bus service, etc.), and have a good amount of international service. SLC, Sacramento, Austin, and San Jose all have good downtowns. They're all modern and all continue to show growth from their downtowns.

For decades, NYC had a rotting shell of an airport that was disgusting.

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by Plaid Shirts

No SLC is NOT a major city. I personally believe it's more comparable to cities such as Austin, San Jose, and Sacramento. Those cities and SLC are all mid-sized cities with decent metropolitan populations and good growth.

For me the three things that make a city 'major' are its city center, its tourism, and its airport. For many people the airport is the first thing people are going to experience and see of the city. A major airport needs to be modern, easily accessible (train, distance between city and airport, bus service, etc.), and have a good amount of international service. SLC, Sacramento, Austin, and San Jose all have good downtowns. They're all modern and all continue to show growth from their downtowns.

The thing that is really hurting the building high rise potential in SLC is the urban growth and the office buildings being built in the suburbs. We all know this though so I'm not going to expand on how I feel about this.

To me though major cities are NYC, Chicago, L.A., Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle, Miami, Houston, Boston, Las Vegas, San Fran, D.C., Philly. They are all known across the world, all have big airports that have great international service, their airports serve as hubs for major airlines, most are headquarters for major businesses, they all have great city centers, and all are places tourist visit (yes, tourism is up in Philly and Houston).

While I think SLC is more similar to Sacramento, Austin, and San Jose, which is great company, I do believe SLC has the potential in the next 3-10 years to really move up in the outlook of people and to be more comparable to cities like Portland, Denver, San Antonio, San Diego, Minneapolis, and Phoenix, which I think is the next level of cities after major cities.

I'm confused, SLC has everything that you have mentioned that major cities have. SLC has an international airport (not the nicest), a neat downtown, large tourism(skiing and site seeing), and HQ's (LDS and Industrial banking). SLC's population is very comparable to the "next level major cities" you mentioned. Last I checked, Salt Lake's urban metro was larger than Vegas'. SLC's highways are connected with LA, Denver, San Fran, Phoenix, Portland and Seattle.

Here's how I put city size:

Top Dog Major: NYC, LA, Chicago, Seattle, Houston.
Major: Denver, Philly, Boston, Vegas, SLC.....
Midsize: Reno, Boise, Sacramento, Chattanooga.....
Small: Cheyenne, Santa Barbara, Park City....

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

Here's how I put city size:

Top Dog Major: NYC, LA, Chicago, Seattle, Houston.
Major: Denver, Philly, Boston, Vegas, SLC.....
Midsize: Reno, Boise, Sacramento, Chattanooga.....
Small: Cheyenne, Santa Barbara, Park City....

By what criteria? SLC == Boston? Philly? Boston has 3 times the population. PHI has 1.5 mil. I get it, hometown pride and all that, but SLC a "major" city? Really?

SLC is a regional center in region of nothing, it is here because those that initially settled wanted isolation. SLC has a good tourism industry, positive economic outlook, and that's about it. It's not just about population, but other cities and MSAs coexist with other larger cities and MSAs. SLC is on its own and no where near a major and relevant as any of the other cites you grouped with SLC. Outside of Utah, right or wrong, Utah is still perceived as a back woods, colloquial region ruled by Mormons.

[Plaid Shirts]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

Top Dog Major: NYC, LA, Chicago, Seattle, Houston.
Major: Denver, Philly, Boston, Vegas, SLC.....
Midsize: Reno, Boise, Sacramento, Chattanooga.....
Small: Cheyenne, Santa Barbara, Park City....

No way SLC is similar to Denver, Boston, and Vegas.

City population really has nothing to do with it. Boise city has more people than the city of Salt Lake City. That's why I think tourism, major business HQ's, and airport, are the 3 things you look at.

Here is how I look at it, after a closer look...
Top Dog Major: New York, LA, Chicago.
Large Major: Atlanta, Philadelphia, Las Vegas, Houston, Dallas, Seattle, San Francisco, Miami, DC, Boston.
Major: Denver, St. Louis, Honolulu, Charlotte, San Antonio, Baltimore, San Diego, Portland, Kansas City, Orlando, Phoenix, Cleveland, Detroit, Minneapolis......etc.....
Midsize: Austin, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, San Jose, Raleigh, Tampa, New Orleans, Nashville, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis.....etc.....
Small: Omaha, Albuquerque, Reno, Savannah, Myrtle Beach, El Paso, Boise, Colorado Springs, Provo, Madison, Wichita, Fargo, Knoxville, Syracuse.....etc....
Extra Small: Santa Barbara, Bellingham, Burlington, St. George, Palm Springs, Gainesville.....etc.....
Extra Extra Small: Vail, Monterey, Park City.....etc.....

Then maybe we're all wrong when it comes to judging this stuff, LOL.

According to this, SLC is a "High Sufficiency" city along with Las Vegas, Raleigh, Nashville, Jacksonville for cities in the U.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_world_cities#Alpha_world_cities

[ToysNoiz]

Originally Posted by brankrom

By what criteria? SLC == Boston? Philly? Boston has 3 times the population. PHI has 1.5 mil. I get it, hometown pride and all that, but SLC a "major" city? Really?

SLC is a regional center in region of nothing, it is here because those that initially settled wanted isolation. SLC has a good tourism industry, positive economic outlook, and that's about it. It's not just about population, but other cities and MSAs coexist with other larger cities and MSAs. SLC is on its own and no where near a major and relevant as any of the other cites you grouped with SLC. Outside of Utah, right or wrong, Utah is still perceived as a back woods, colloquial region ruled by Mormons.

I'm not saying SLC = Boston. I'm putting pop 1 million to 3 million in a group. And I don't have that hometown pride. That shit drives me nuts.

Salt Lake is the only large MSA in Utah, just as Denver is the only large MSA in Colorado, and Vegas is the only large MSA in Nevada.The rest is mountains. These are states with big areas. In the west, large cities are all hours and hours away from eachother. Unlike in the northeast where you can hit four large cities going 80 MPH in four hours if you could.

Yes, Utah is perceived as back woods polygamy no outsider dead land.... but it's a fucking stereotype that needs to die. SLC isn't like that anymore.