Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I imagine they didn't get much done over the Christmas holidays.

Seems like most construction sites close down for a little while over Christmas, anyone in the industry able to comment?

[OttawaJosh]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Seems like most construction sites close down for a little while over Christmas, anyone in the industry able to comment?

Yes this true, there is minor work going on but most unions have in their contract that the workers have the option of taking 2 weeks off at Xmas. Most subcontractors just send everyone home for two weeks as a result.

[alecz_dad]

City, OSEG at odds over added Lansdowne costs, CBC Ottawa, December 31, 2013

Just thought that anybody who might like to hear something from outside of the OSMUG-hugger echo-chamber might be interested in these comments in response to OSEG's New Year's Eve stealth admission that reno costs for the Civic Centre will be $17M more than expected, and that they aren't volunteering to pony up for the overrun. Seems the skepticism about the Lansdowne scheme is growing in the outside world. (They can't all be John Martin.)

BTW, which one of you guys is jayme?

[alecz_dad]

Sorry, defishel, didn't you get the memo the other year? There's no room for sentimentality when it comes to public lands, public parks, or public infrastructure naming rights.

At least Frank Clair will be getting a statue. When I heard the announcement, I just assumed it would be the Frank Clair Memorial Toilets, or something.

Originally Posted by defishel

Just because it's happening doesn't mean it's right. I was watching a documentary or something that was talking about how RedBull purchased a local sports facility and team, and the controversy with that. That probably doesn't mean much, but it was how something that was important to people in some way was being taken away from them because a company could profit off it. Would people in Ottawa be more likely to shop and have fun at Lansdowne because TD is the sponsor? Would they earn more money because it's their name as a part of the facility?

I'm doubtful. I can imagine they have more capital to invest, like RBC with Bluesfest, to bring in more performers or whatever so that more people will be attracted to it and spend their money. But to change the name completely, to something so generic from something people identify with? Just because it happens now doesn't mean it's right.

[alecz_dad]

phil235, despite that, the City's 2011 Traffic and Parking Management Plan stated there should be 3,280 available parking spaces on surrounding streets in the Glebe, Ottawa South and Ottawa East.

So, the assertion that there would be sufficient parking onsite (despite the fact that there will be only about 1/3 the number of paid parking spaces at Lansdowne than before) because the City will use various forms of transportation demand magic to discourage people from driving to Lansdowne, seems weak, because clearly they have determined that there are about 4x as many spaces possibly available offsite, as onsite -- and presumably have intentions that it should be used by Lansdowne-bound fans and shoppers.

By asserting that they can manage the increased demand for parking, despite there being much more demand, OSMUG could justify overbuilding to the extent that they have by saying out of one side of their face that everyone will be busing, walking or biking, while out of the other side of their face reassuring prospective tenants that there's plenty of parking on surrounding residential streets; effectively deeming those to becoming permanent overflow parking lots, with a constant circulation of people looking for parking they can't get or won't pay for on site.

Originally Posted by phil235

While there were technical issues making a larger parking garage expensive, that wasn't the primary reason. The City made a conscious decision to include less parking as that is really the only proven way to get people to choose other modes of transportation.

I would expect that in the case of the Commonwealth Games parking would not be an issue, as there would be no parking available to fans. That is definitely going to be the case when the Grey Cup is there.

[BlueJay]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Seems like most construction sites close down for a little while over Christmas, anyone in the industry able to comment?

While the site was not closed two for the two weeks, there was less of a workforce obviously due to the union trades on site. I work for one of the general contractors there that are building 4 of the retail buildings so I can speak for them but not the other ones.

[JackBauer24]

At least Frank Clair is getting a statue? I would say the statue out weighs the way Mr. Clair was honoured when the stadium was functional - with a dinky little sign below the ancient scoreboard.

And get this, there may even be a plaque mounted near the statue that notes what Frank Clair contributed to this city and to the Riders.

Yup, no room for sentimentality.... No room at all.

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Sorry, defishel, didn't you get the memo the other year? There's no room for sentimentality when it comes to public lands, public parks, or public infrastructure naming rights.

At least Frank Clair will be getting a statue. When I heard the announcement, I just assumed it would be the Frank Clair Memorial Toilets, or something.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

phil235, despite that, the City's 2011 Traffic and Parking Management Plan stated there should be 3,280 available parking spaces on surrounding streets in the Glebe, Ottawa South and Ottawa East.

So, the assertion that there would be sufficient parking onsite (despite the fact that there will be only about 1/3 the number of paid parking spaces at Lansdowne than before) because the City will use various forms of transportation demand magic to discourage people from driving to Lansdowne, seems weak, because clearly they have determined that there are about 4x as many spaces possibly available offsite, as onsite -- and presumably have intentions that it should be used by Lansdowne-bound fans and shoppers.

By asserting that they can manage the increased demand for parking, despite there being much more demand, OSMUG could justify overbuilding to the extent that they have by saying out of one side of their face that everyone will be busing, walking or biking, while out of the other side of their face reassuring prospective tenants that there's plenty of parking on surrounding residential streets; effectively deeming those to becoming permanent overflow parking lots, with a constant circulation of people looking for parking they can't get or won't pay for on site.

Get this: City streets and parking on those streets are PUBLIC. So if anyone else so wishes to drive on them, park on them within the posted rules, etc, they're welcome to do so!

Just like people in other neighbourhoods, you and your neighbours will be sharing the public spaces (the streets, the sidewalks, the on street parking) with other people!

What you see as two-faced, is actually just balanced transportation demand management: yes, there is parking, both on site and on neighbouring streets. Yes, there will have to be more people walking, cycling and taking transit than overall city rates.

Is it "transportation demand magic"? No.

The thing about traffic and parking is, even if there's no strategy at all, no publicising the limits on parking, no extra buses, etc, there will still only be ONE event/day of traffic mayhem. Why? because people are generally rational, and if they attend an event, and they can't park, and they're stuck in traffic for an hour, the next time they will consider their options, and some will choose to park further away and walk, or take transit, or cycle, or carpool, or not come again. Yes, some will still drive, but the system will very quickly reach equilibrium.

Downtown Ottawa is a heck of a lot more dense than Lansdowne, and yet everyday 100,000 people come and go from the area to work. Is it busy? Sure, but it is it in a permanent state of transportation demand management failure? No.

- - -

After all the years of heated discussion about Lansdowne, I predict that once it opens the transition to the new normal will be very, very quick.

It will become a new extension of the Glebe, a city-wide draw for retailers like Whole Foods, a great new park, and of course the sports and entertainment draws.

Old Ottawa South and the southern part of the Glebe outside of Lansdowne will boom with new construction and retailers.

Canal based events like Winterlude, skating and boating will all be better integrated into city life as a huge new destination and set of services and amenities will now be available alongside it.

The stadium will be gorgeous, and the whole scheme will win design and other awards.

Some will walk, some will cycle, some will take transit and some will drive.

And we will all wonder what all the fuss was about.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Just thought that anybody who might like to hear something from outside of the OSMUG-hugger echo-chamber...

Give it a rest with that crap. People here constantly provide you with reasoned explanations, with references from several sources, as to why they feel the way they do and several have expressed concerns about the development despite overall support. It's not just a matter of liking something because OSEG said we should; there is far more balance than you're willing to acknowledge.

On the other hand, you incorrectly jump to conclusions about the naming rights, praise the FoL for spreading false (or at least incomplete) information, rewrite history to suit your outrage and are unable to support the majority of your arguments. There's only one person here who has his mind made up no matter what information is presented. You are in no position to suggest that anyone here is unable to be objective.

[MountainView]

Saw this photo on Twitter. I was hoping that sleek stadium design wouldn't have a logo put on it... but guess I was hoping for too much.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Saw this photo on Twitter. I was hoping that sleek stadium design wouldn't have a logo put on it... but guess I was hoping for too much.

That looks weird. If they want to put a logo there they should at least put the full TD Place logo. Having just the TD logo on the wood veil looks odd. I've never seen a company have naming rights for an arena and just put the corporate logo without the arena name. That looks overly corporate. It's a stadium not a TD branch or office.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

phil235, despite that, the City's 2011 Traffic and Parking Management Plan stated there should be 3,280 available parking spaces on surrounding streets in the Glebe, Ottawa South and Ottawa East.

So, the assertion that there would be sufficient parking onsite (despite the fact that there will be only about 1/3 the number of paid parking spaces at Lansdowne than before) because the City will use various forms of transportation demand magic to discourage people from driving to Lansdowne, seems weak, because clearly they have determined that there are about 4x as many spaces possibly available offsite, as onsite -- and presumably have intentions that it should be used by Lansdowne-bound fans and shoppers.

By asserting that they can manage the increased demand for parking, despite there being much more demand, OSMUG could justify overbuilding to the extent that they have by saying out of one side of their face that everyone will be busing, walking or biking, while out of the other side of their face reassuring prospective tenants that there's plenty of parking on surrounding residential streets; effectively deeming those to becoming permanent overflow parking lots, with a constant circulation of people looking for parking they can't get or won't pay for on site.

First, I must say that posting all of the comments on a CBC article was the dumbest thing I have ever seen done on this board. And that bar is high.

Second, your entire argument here is based on a comparison that defies logic. Yes, there is one third of the parking that there was before. What does that have to do with anything? There was far too much parking before. 95% of the time it sat almost completely empty. That was a massive waste of valuable land, it was an eyesore and it was an environmental disaster. Building enough parking for the 12 times a year that the stadium is full is massively inefficient.

The idea here is balance. Yes, people will park on area streets for big events. Just like they've been doing for 100 years. For day to day use, the analysis predicts that there is enough parking on site. Beyond your sweeping statements, I've seen no evidence whatsoever from you that this is not the case.

Care to back your claims up with any actual analysis?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Saw this photo on Twitter. I was hoping that sleek stadium design wouldn't have a logo put on it... but guess I was hoping for too much.

Oh, COME ON.

That's like slapping a McDonald's logo on the face of the Eiffel Tower. Naming the stadium TD Place? Fine. Having to put the name somewhere? Fine.

But for the love of God, don't ruin sleek and intelligent design. Put it along the North Side stands where they'll face Bank St. and into the site.

[McC]

That's probably just a conceptual image. I'm sure that upon completion, the logo will be much larger.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by McC

That's probably just a conceptual image. I'm sure that upon completion, the logo will be much larger.

Lol...

Where is that image from? I've seen it on Twitter too, but don't know its actual source so I didn't know how credible it was.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Oh, COME ON.

That's like slapping a McDonald's logo on the face of the Eiffel Tower. Naming the stadium TD Place? Fine. Having to put the name somewhere? Fine.

But for the love of God, don't ruin sleek and intelligent design. Put it along the North Side stands where they'll face Bank St. and into the site.

From TD's perspective it makes sense; it's the most visible place at Lansdowne. Whether you're coming over the bridge, using the canal, or driving on the Queen Elizabeth Driveway/ Colonel By you'll see it. And if the wood veil gains international attention for its design or wins awards people will see their brand. At this point I just hope they use the full TD Place logo and not just the TD logo.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Oh, COME ON.

That's like slapping a McDonald's logo on the face of the Eiffel Tower. Naming the stadium TD Place? Fine. Having to put the name somewhere? Fine.

But for the love of God, don't ruin sleek and intelligent design. Put it along the North Side stands where they'll face Bank St. and into the site.

It's not a big deal. It's small in the scheme of things.

My preference is for the full TD Place though as someone else already mentioned.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Oh, COME ON.

That's like slapping a McDonald's logo on the face of the Eiffel Tower. Naming the stadium TD Place? Fine. Having to put the name somewhere? Fine.

But for the love of God, don't ruin sleek and intelligent design. Put it along the North Side stands where they'll face Bank St. and into the site.

Come on it's not quite the Eiffel Tower. Sponsorship pays the bills which nobody else (taxpayers or ticket buyers) want to pay so kind of a fact of life.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by JFFournier

Lol...

Where is that image from? I've seen it on Twitter too, but don't know its actual source so I didn't know how credible it was.

Not sure exactly where it's from either. Perhaps someone made it up and it has no truth behind it. It was tweeted by someone and the Redblacks Re-tweeted it. Which lead me to originally post the image.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Come on it's not quite the Eiffel Tower. Sponsorship pays the bills which nobody else (taxpayers or ticket buyers) want to pay so kind of a fact of life.

Agreed.