Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by esquire

What is the big deal with combining soccer and football stadiums? The field dimensions are practically the same... this is a huge mountain being made out of a molehill.

Look at how many arenas house basketball and hockey successfully, including the ACC. All you need are risers that pull out to come right up to the ends of a basketball court, and retract to make room for hockey rinks. BC Place does this successfully for soccer, and I'm not sure why it can't be done at BMO.

This whole "issue" seems to be more about fan ego than anything else... for whatever reason there is some prestige associated with having a soccer-only stadium. That's why you're seeing this backlash when putting football into BMO would have a negligible effect on the fan experience.

This 100%.

No clue what the issue is.

Baseball and other sports sure, I can understand the problem.

I'm a big fan of combined use stadiums/arenas otherwise though. Cost-effective and has a proven track record.

Get over it?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by isaidso

It's more an issue for soccer than football. Fans like being right behind the goal. If the stadium accommodates football, those seats will need to be pushed back a good 15-20 yards.

Canadian football fans know all too well how much it — playing in a baseball or athletics stadium. Soccer fans are no different in their desire for a great fan experience. The ones that don't care are so used to crappy sight lines, that they don't see a problem. It's like having a cell phone then asking people to go back to home phones. The people who haven't discovered cell phones yet don't understand what the fuss is about. Wanting sport specific facilities has nothing to do with ego or prestige.

Really, now. You tell me what is so wrong with this soccer setup in a football stadium that only a new $150M stadium could fix it:



The seats are right up to the ends. For football, the bottom few rows at the end are taken away. It seems to work fine... a soccer-only stadium wouldn't be much different in terms of layout.

Yet for TFC's fans this is totally unacceptable?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

This 100%.

No clue what the issue is.

Baseball and other sports sure, I can understand the problem.

I'm a big fan of combined use stadiums/arenas otherwise though. Cost-effective and has a proven track record.

Get over it?

Exactly. Even though I think combined baseball/football stadiums are fine, I recognize that the playing fields are very different and that such facilities are seldom optimal for both sports.

But football and soccer fields are only different from each other by a matter of a few metres... as shown in the BC Place example, you can easily design the end seating so that the bottom few rows are moved away for football games... otherwise it comes right up to the pitch. Soccer fans are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[osmo]

The Whitecaps play on turf, and arenas are built and made to house different events such as basketball and hockey easily unless it's sports specific.

BMO was built as a soccer facility, and was modded with grass. Bringing football into the mix changes things a lot, the only way this works well is with turf which is unfavorable for soccer...

The only multi-use facilities in the MLS that share with football have turf. It's to hard to do both. New England tried and for a while the NE Revolution had chewed up grass when the Pats season started.

MLSE risks — of a loyal fanbase that will fill those 30K seats. Those TFC fans weren't going to Argos games and don't plan to. TFC base is lucrative and makes MLSE a good amount of money for the pennies they put into the TFC operation.

The issue that is happening now is be same thing with be Islanders moving into a sport-specific Arena in Brooklyn that was built for basketball and concerts. They are doing some work to fix some of the issues but there is only so much that can be done without wreaking the original layout and ambience that was indented.

MLSE and the Argos will be too cheap to build a roll system in which they place down new sod for each game. In the States for places such as Cowboys Stadium when they host soccer they simply just lay down grass. This costs a good bit of money but to them they are willing to pay the price, but It's hard to justify paying $100,000 for new sod each home game for just the Argos. This is what they do all the time in the States and with Canada's thrifty culture towards sports facilities it has not caught on to the trend.

An example is during Grey Cups the league is to cheap to lay down new turf and just does a bad job doing a paint job versus the NFL and NCAA that lays down new turf every time for any big time game. That is the only solution I can see with the grass for MLSE. He is trolling about the paint, it's never 100% perfect. "Recovery" just comes from laying new sod in patches. You can't fix major ruts and wear in just one week, you patch it with new stuff and blend it in.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Jay in Cowtown

I'd bet we have a new stadium before Regina does... as well as a new arena!

I'd put my money on Regina over Cochrane.

[esquire]

^ Between Jays fans and TFC fans, I don't think there is city on earth whose fans are more obsessed with playing surfaces than Toronto's.

"Either the team plays on a Barlexus II-Quickstart Fescue-Ryegrass hybrid cultivar or I'm cancelling my season tickets!!"

[elly63]

Explosion at THF?



Or just an icicle in front of the camera

[elly63]

Tim Hortons Field Hamilton January 10/2014





Looks like the concrete seating slabs in the stand above should be completed before the end of the month if they are scheduled to work on it each day.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

You couldn't make that picture of BC Place a little bigger?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by esquire

Really, now. You tell me what is so wrong with this soccer setup in a football stadium that only a new $150M stadium could fix it:

It does look workable in that photo. Usually the issue is gradient and/or distance from the field of play. Physically moving a rigid stand forward without changing the grade solves both of those problems. Is that what they employ at BC Place?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

No clue what the issue is. I'm a big fan of combined use stadiums/arenas otherwise though. Cost-effective and has a proven track record. Get over it?

Perhaps you should get a clue about the issue before posting and telling people to get over it.

This is a long and winding road and I've been following it since day one. Here is the short version of the story.

Argos/U of T/CSA to build a stadium. U of T backs out. Bad U of T!

Argos attempt to partner with York. Argos get sweetheart deal to stay at Rogers and they back out on York. Bad Argos!

CSA stays the course and stadium gets built partnering with MLSE.

City owns stadium and in the city council minutes they say the stadium will be usable for football. Stadium does not get built that way, dimensions are not CFL regulation size. Bad somebody!

As both a football and soccer fan I see both sides and see a lot of misinformation on both sides.

First, it is a city owned building so the Argos should be able to play there. But they can't play there because the structure presently can't accommodate them. The soccer fans are upset because they've had exclusive claim to the stadium even though it was by greasy means. The Argos also did screw themselves so they get little sympathy.

Combined stadiums are never a good idea, someone always suffers. The biggest issue here is the turf. Football can be played on almost anything but soccer purists demand a pristine pitch. Football does wreak havoc on the surface and there are not many examples of ground sharing on turf where people are happy.

Vancouver and Seattle share artificial surfaces but there are issues there as well. World class players don't want to play on artificial surfaces, they want turf. Prima donnas? Yup! Old biases against artificial surfaces? Yup! But it is a fact. TFC had issues acquiring players when they had the artificial surface. Signing players is easier with turf.

Probably the best example to use is to study BBVA Compass stadium in Houston where the MLS Dynamo share with Texas Southern University. The jury is still out there.

No one in Canada is going to lay down a new turf surface for every game, that's utterly ridiculous and would cost well beyond 100k.

Reading the article above it looks like MLSE seems sincere in trying to appease the soccer fans and they are looking at spending up to 150 million on this project.

If they are able to accomplish that I think the design would be quite revolutionary.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

You couldn't make that picture of BC Place a little bigger?

Cropping and editing quotes so people don't post the same picture ten times on a page seem to be an un-acquired skill amongst many.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

You couldn't make that picture of BC Place a little bigger?

I wanted to make sure you could all see the detail

Originally Posted by isaidso

It does look workable in that photo. Usually the issue is gradient and/or distance from the field of play. Physically moving a rigid stand forward without changing the grade solves both of those problems. Is that what they employ at BC Place?

They don't move the stand forward. The football seating comes right up to the end zone, and below row 1 there is about a 8 foot drop to the field. For soccer they just put temporary stands in between the main stand... that adds a few rows of seating that come right down to field level.

It isn't rocket science... this could easily work in Toronto. But of course once that is solved, fans will use the excuse that TFC's delicate players can't handle artificial playing surfaces. Good grief.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

It isn't rocket science... this could easily work in Toronto.

Not until the stadium gets rebuilt, you can't fit a CFL field there without demolition and reconstruction of the endzone stands. No small job!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by elly63

Not until the stadium gets rebuilt, you can't fit a CFL field there without demolition and reconstruction of the endzone stands. No small job!

Maybe not a small job, but certainly not a huge one either. You would need to partially demolish the existing endzone stands to essentially turn the first 10 rows or so into retractable seating. It is not as big a deal as some might suggest it is.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Here's a CFL field overlaid on BMO Field.

[SteelTown]

FirstOntario Credit Union wants its name on Copps Coliseum

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/430913...-union-wants-its-name-on-copps-coliseum/

The Spectator has learned that the group seeking to have its name on Copps Coliseum is FirstOntario Credit Union.

Sources have confirmed the deal that will be presented to city council next week.

FirstOntario, with roots in Hamilton that stretch back to 1939, already has a significant partnership with Copps.

Last fall, the credit union took over the naming rights to the Copps box office and became the exclusive banking partner of Copps and Hamilton Place. FirstOntario is also a major sponsor of Copps' primary tenant, the Hamilton Bulldogs.

Global Spectrum, which took over operation of Copps and Hamilton Place last year, has asked to appear before the general issues committee Jan. 15. General manager Scott Warren has asked for a closed-door meeting.

Part of the city's contract with Global Spectrum allows the company to seek a sponsorship rights deal for the arena and concert venue. But council has final approval.

The Bay Street facility is named after Victor K. Copps, the patriarch of a Hamilton political dynasty who served as mayor from 1962 to 1976.

Officials with Global Spectrum say the Copps name will continue to be associated with the building.

FirstOntario is the largest financial institution with a headquarters in Hamilton, the third biggest credit union in Ontario and manages more than $2.4 billion in assets of close to 100,000 members.

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by GernB

I hope you're right. The couple of games we go to every year are like a trip back to the 70s, and not ina good way. Ken King has mentioned a figure of upwards of $100m to bring McMahon up to modern standards so I don't think it'll happen soon.

You can't put that much lipstick on a pig. Plus why would Flames upgrade something they don't even own. Good luck getting U of C to spend anything on it as well. Blow it up! (but keep the "jumbotron", that thing is impressive)

[FrankieFlowerpot]

I amended the drawing above to show the "buffer zone" required around the edge of the CFL playing surface.

[Dalreg]

Quite able to fit a CFL field in there. I'll bet it happens before the end of this decade. Football and soccer will be played in the same stadium in Toronto.