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  #4521  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2014, 9:00 PM
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Combo Stadium + Arena in Calgary
     
     
  #4522  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2014, 9:04 PM
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Combo Stadium + Arena in Calgary
I take it you mean side-by-side as opposed to a single facility... putting hockey in a large stadium always results in a crappy experience. (See the Thunderdome for an example.)

I don't think a stadium and an arena at the same time is beyond the realm of possibility for Calgary, though. What size will Calgary build, though? In the 30-35K range as other new western stadiums, or will they want to go big with a 50K+ facility to compete for big international sports events?
     
     
  #4523  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2014, 9:09 PM
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I take it you mean side-by-side as opposed to a single facility...
Not really, but sort of
     
     
  #4524  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2014, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tomthumb2 View Post
Personally i am confused about two things:

a) where do our tax dollars go? Obviously it doesn't go to snow removal.
Pedestrian River Bridges 300m away from existing River Car Bridges with pedestrian paths on them!


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Originally Posted by tomthumb2 View Post
b) how the hell does Regina end up with a new stadium? Am I in some kind of alternate universe? How embarrassing will that be for Stamps fans once that gets built! Actually, with Ottawa and Hamilton getting new parks, we will be the worst in the league in that department, hands down!
I'd bet we have a new stadium before Regina does... as well as a new arena!
     
     
  #4525  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2014, 11:38 PM
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Global Spectrum wants to rename Hamilton's Copps Coliseum

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/n...name-hamilton-s-copps-coliseum-1.2490832

The company managing Copps Coliseum will approach the city next week for permission to rename the arena.

Global Spectrum will appear before Hamilton’s general issues committee Wednesday with a proposal to rename the facility.

General manager Scott Warren wouldn’t say who the naming party is, but they may be at the meeting, he said.

The company tried to keep the request under wraps. In Warren's initial request to speak to councillors, he asked that it be in camera and not made public.

The city signed an agreement with Global Spectrum last year to manage Copps Coliseum, Hamilton Place and the Molson Canadian Studio. That agreement allows Global Spectrum to pursue a naming rights partner, Warren said. But the city has to approve it.

Warren wouldn’t give any details “out of respect for the process,” he said. But he will field questions at Wednesday’s meeting.

Copps Coliseum is named after Victor Copps, a long-time mayor of Hamilton. He was the patriarch of a family well known in Hamilton politics. His daughter, Sheila, went on to become an MP and one-time deputy prime minister.

Victor Copps was beloved and respected in the community, said Larry DiIanni, a former Hamilton mayor who knew Copps.
     
     
  #4526  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by The Fisher Account View Post
Combo Stadium + Arena in Calgary
Sonething like the proposed VTB Arena in Moscow

http://www.thorntontomasetti.com/projects/vtb_arena_park
     
     
  #4527  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 12:56 AM
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Leiweke soothes TFC fan worries over BMO expansion
John Molinaro January 9, 2014

Like a lot of Toronto FC fans, Phil Tobin feels somewhat out of the loop.

Tobin is president of the Red Patch Boys, one of TFC’s biggest and best-known supporters groups. He’s concerned about the possibility of the CFL’s Toronto Argonauts moving into Toronto FC’s home at BMO Field.

Tobin and other TFC season-ticket holders have been repeatedly and publically assured by Tim Leiweke, president of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, that any potential modifications to BMO Field to accommodate the Argonauts or turn the soccer specific stadium into a multi-purpose facility won’t take place without MLSE first consulting them.

So imagine Tobin’s surprise last week when a Sportsnet report included confirmation from Leiweke that BMO Field, which has been TFC’s home since 2007, might undergo a major renovation and expansion in order to host a future edition of the NHL’s Winter Classic and CFL’s Grey Cup.

Another Sportsnet report cited CFL sources who said Argos executives hoped a scenario would unfold where MLSE would purchase the franchise, a move that could very well lead to the gridiron team moving into BMO Field on a full-time basis.

SUPPORTERS’ FEARS

Tobin, a 39-year-old telecom technician who calls Toronto home, has served as Red Patch Boys president since 2010. He’s feels very confident in speaking for the majority of his membership when he says Leiweke and MLSE are sending mixed messages.

“We talk to Tim and MLSE people at town hall meetings and we engage them about these issues, and they’re promising before they do anything that they’re going to talk to us,” Tobin told Sportsnet.

“But it’s frustrating because then you open up the newspaper or see website articles talking about Winter Classics, the Argos moving in, stadium expansion…. It’s every single point contradicting another one they’ve made and it’s frustrating.”

Maintaining the soccer aesthetics of BMO Field, a soccer-specific stadium built for the Reds prior to their first Major League Soccer season in 2007, is a key issue for Tobin and thousands of other loyal TFC supporters.

BMO Field’s present configurations don’t allow for Canadian football because of the dimensions of the field and stadium. If the Argos were to move in, the stands would have to be moved back—unless retractable stands were used—putting TFC fans further away from the action, and resulting in BMO Field losing its sense of being what fans consider a proper soccer stadium.

Then there’s the issue of the football lines on the field, which would visibly detract from the stadium’s “soccer vibe.” Also, BMO Field features natural grass, but supporters fear an artificial surface would likely have to be installed to accommodate the Argos. Again, that’s not ideal for soccer.

Tobin argues that putting in an artificial surface at BMO Field, which featured FieldTurf up until 2010, would make it increasingly more difficult for TFC to sign top players, especially those from overseas who are used to playing on grass.

“You’re not going to get a Jermain Defoe without grass,” Tobin said, referring to the Tottenham and England star that TFC will officially unveil on Monday.

The Argonauts’ present lease with Rogers Centre expires in 2017, although it has an opt-out clause that could theoretically allow them to move into BMO Field. But as far as the Red Patch Boys are concerned, the bottom line is this: BMO Field should not roll out the welcome mat to the Argos.

“The position for most of our group, and personally, is that the Argos should find their own home venue. BMO isn’t a real solution,” Tobin stated. “It’s not spite for the CFL. We’re really happy the CFL exists. … It’s a great tradition and it’s Canadian, and we’re very proud of it. But the Argos should sort out their stadium issues on their own.”

LEIWEKE RESPONDS

Leiweke states that if BMO Field is renovated to become a multipurpose facility that can accommodate other events such as the CFL that the soccer experience won’t be affected in any way.

“When we talk about Winter Classics or Grey Cups and a 40,000-capacity BMO, that is with a base of 30,000 seats. Our expansion plans for BMO are to go from our current capacity of just under 22,000 to 30,000,” Leiweke told Sportsnet. “We do not think that will ultimately out-paces demand, especially with where we’re trying to go with this team.

“We want to design it in a way so that we can get 40,000 on a temporary basis for big events. Our goal is still to have a 30,000-seat stadium that would protect the intimacy and the environment of the game and the experience, while still projecting some growth for the sport going forward.”

The additional seats will come by adding another level to current structure of the stadium, Leiweke explained.

As far as installing artificial turf, Leiweke maintains that is not going to happen.

“I want to be as clear as I can: We are committed to grass. There is no miscommunication on the grass issue,” Leiweke stated.

Leiweke also went to great lengths to explain that any system or technology implemented to physically slide back the end-zone stands in order to accommodate a CFL-size field would have no effect on soccer.

“One of the reasons why the renovation costs are so high—and I’m talking about a renovation cost that is twice what it cost the build the stadium in the first place—is to create an engineering system within the building to make sure for soccer the configuration remains as it is today,” Leiweke said.

Leiweke later added: “There will be no obstruction of the sidelines, no distances created between the first row and the pitch that are any different than what you see today.… We will have the same ambience and same experience and same atmosphere that they have today but with additional seats.”

What about Tobin’s fears that CFL football would tear up the pitch? Or the gridiron line marks on the soccer pitch?

“There is a way to schedule events so that you never have the two teams playing on the same weekend and you always give the pitch a week to recover. [As for the lines], there are now ways to do lines that are a paint-based concept where the paint literally can be taken right off and you’d never know it was there,” Leiweke assured.

Significantly, Leiweke went to great lengths to say that all of this—the expansion of BMO Field, it becoming a multipurpose facility—is in the exploratory phase. MLSE will use the next six months to consult with engineers, designers and architects to see if the renovation can be achieved without disrupting the soccer experience. He also stressed that MLSE will solicit fans’ opinions throughout the six-month period via town hall meetings and focus groups before any decision is made.

“We clearly don’t have some hidden plan, nor do we have a secret agreement done with the CFL,” Leiweke promised. “We’re committed to making the experience better—not worse—for TFC. That’s why we need six months. Not just for the fan feedback, but also from an engineering and design evaluation as to whether or not we can find a way we can have multiple events on a grass pitch that enhances the environment for soccer. That’s the guideline. That’s our commitment.”

While Leiweke understands why fans are concerned about proposed renovations to BMO Field, he’s bothered by the suggestion that making the stadium into a multipurpose facility suggests he and MLSE are not fully supportive of TFC.

“For those who think that we don’t love soccer and those who think we’re not committed to the right environment or the grass pitch, are you serious? Look what we’re in the middle of doing here. I love soccer. So can we just for once all calm everyone down and let everyone understand that they have no one—and I mean no one—that is a greater fan, a more passionate leader or more utterly, emotionally committed to building a great soccer franchise here than me,” Leiweke said.

“I have made a solemn pledge, and I will stick by it, that we’re going to make the experience better.”

Last edited by elly63; Jan 10, 2014 at 1:22 AM.
     
     
  #4528  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 1:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay in Cowtown View Post
I'd bet we have a new stadium before Regina does... as well as a new arena!
Is your new stadium planned to be completed by 2017?
     
     
  #4529  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 1:36 AM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I take it you mean side-by-side as opposed to a single facility... putting hockey in a large stadium always results in a crappy experience. (See the Thunderdome for an example.)

I don't think a stadium and an arena at the same time is beyond the realm of possibility for Calgary, though. What size will Calgary build, though? In the 30-35K range as other new western stadiums, or will they want to go big with a 50K+ facility to compete for big international sports events?
The Thunderdome has an almost perfect fan experience

     
     
  #4530  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 2:37 AM
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Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
Is your new stadium planned to be completed by 2017?
Stamps will be playing at McDump for the next 10 years at least.
     
     
  #4531  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 4:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cjones2451 View Post
Sonething like the proposed VTB Arena in Moscow

http://www.thorntontomasetti.com/projects/vtb_arena_park
Very impressive... just add 6,000 seats to the arena, move some of the football endzone seats to the sidelines, and voila!


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Originally Posted by VIce View Post
The Thunderdome has an almost perfect fan experience

     
     
  #4532  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 4:58 AM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Originally Posted by GernB View Post
Stamps will be playing at McDump for the next 10 years at least.
I don't see that. I won't predict a new facility but a massive refurbishment at the very least. The ownership has at least hinted that much.

Considering the wealth of the area they are going to look extremely bad after this year when Hamilton and Ottawa come on line. And don't even talk about Regina in 2017, that might be good though, it'll give Calgary someone to Wally Pipp. Actually Calgary will know what they're up against in the next few months when Regina announces the winner of the design and construction competition.
     
     
  #4533  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 5:37 AM
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Thought I'd post this as a precursor to the awarding of the contract for the Regina competition. The concept drawings showed polycarbonate roofing as part of the design. It might be a good idea to learn a little more about it - elly

Polycarbonate Becoming the Clear Solution
With the success of Livestrong Sporting Park in Kansas City, Kan., Duo-Gard is proving that polycarbonate is a viable solution for difficult venue requirements
Jessica Boudevin January 31, 2012


The polycarbonate canopy at Livestrong Sporting Park in Kansas City, Kan. (Photo Credit: Alistair Tutton Photography)

A second Major League Soccer stadium is preparing to roll out a polycarbonate entrance element following its success with the material at Livestrong Park in Kansas City, Kan.

Duo-Gard, located in Canton, Mich., is installing a near-translucent entry design at Houston’s BBVA Compass Stadium, home of the MLS Houston Dynamos.

“Translucent structural elements are becoming a trend because you can do so much with them,” said Duo-Gard CEO Dave Miller. “Natural light flow during the day creates a better environment for the fan and, at night, interior light can make the structure glow which provides a really cool element.”

The $100-million BBVA Compass Stadium designed by Populous and operated by AEG will include vertical, geometric designs for the entrance of the stadium, made out of orange polycarbonate, said Miller. “It will be done by the end of February, but the Dynamos will probably play their first game of the season in May.”

Miller said the material amplifies the screams of excitement from the crowd, lets in 80 percent of the available natural light and can withstand 90 pounds per square foot — and it’s cheaper than most other roofing materials.

Soccer stadiums are opting for cheaper roofing structures because “the economics of soccer aren’t such that you can afford a retractable roof at MLS stadiums,” said Livestrong Sporting Park’s VP of Design David Ficklin. “The retractable roof would have been $70-$100 million, which was not economically viable.”

Last summer, Duo-Gard design engineered the canopy for the home of Major League Soccer’s Sporting Kansas City. The $200-million stadium opened June 9, 2011, with the largest polycarbonate stadium canopy in North America.

In contrast, the polycarbonate materials for the canopy on Livestrong Sporting Park ran $2 million. “Now I’m not saying installation or structural costs, but just the actual polycarbonate material,” said Miller.

“And, because it’s a light material, we were able to save the venue more than $2 million in steel.”

“You’re looking in the neighborhood of $50-$70 per square foot for a roofing solution,” said Miller. The stadium’s polycarbonate canopy stretched more than 1,800 feet long, with sections from 25-70 feet deep, with a 12-foot span between structural members.

“For a simple canopy system it could be about $20-$27 per square foot, but we’ve had jobs that have gone for up to $100 per square foot,” added Miller, “because it all depends on what structural materials have to go into it.”

Livestrong Sporting Park and BBVA Compass Stadium both use natural grass turf, which means they’ll need sunlight transmission through the roof canopy to hit the field.

“We also needed a system that was strong enough to withstand all of the different loads on the roof — primarily being the wind load pushing up, as well as snow or rain load pushing down,” said Ficklin.

While it is not a FIFA rule that soccer stadiums need to have natural grass, many players have been vocal in their preference of real grass to synthetic.

“They think that it’s easier to get injured on synthetic material or affects the way the ball handles,” said Ficklin, who pointed out that Toronto’s BMO Field, which hosts Toronto FC, changed from synthetic to real grass when they ran into player complaints.

The noise factor was aso important to Ficklin, who wanted the energy and excitement in the stadium to run as high as possible.

“Psychologically, we wanted it to be a very intimate-feeling venue and we wanted it to be very loud — and I can report that it’s very successful in both of those goals,” said Ficklin.

Architects are increasingly including translucent materials into their designs as light becomes an important part of the design process.

“You can do so much with it,” said Miller. “Natural light flow during the day creates a better environment for the fan, and, at night, interior light can make the structure glow which provides a really cool element.”

Another large translucent structure in the works is Farmers Field in Los Angeles. Duo-Gard is not involved with the Farmers Field project, but design renderings show a pillow-skin, translucent material is planned for the outside of the building.

“We used to give an architect a piece of polycarbonate and they wouldn’t know what it was, but now it’s recognized as a legitimate material,” said Miller. “Something like Livestrong Sporting Park proves conclusively that we can use it on a huge scale.”
     
     
  #4534  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 6:16 AM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
I don't see that. I won't predict a new facility but a massive refurbishment at the very least. The ownership has at least hinted that much.

Considering the wealth of the area they are going to look extremely bad after this year when Hamilton and Ottawa come on line. And don't even talk about Regina in 2017, that might be good though, it'll give Calgary someone to Wally Pipp. Actually Calgary will know what they're up against in the next few months when Regina announces the winner of the design and construction competition.
I hope you're right. The couple of games we go to every year are like a trip back to the 70s, and not ina good way. Ken King has mentioned a figure of upwards of $100m to bring McMahon up to modern standards so I don't think it'll happen soon.
     
     
  #4535  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 7:59 AM
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I don't want the Argonauts at BMO Field, even though I love the CFL and hate soccer. It's unfair to the soccer community to worsen their stadium experience because another team can't find a home. I mean come on–this is Toronto. How could such a big city not have money for a basic soccer stadium as well as a basic football stadium that would probably look very similar.
     
     
  #4536  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 10:56 AM
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I don't want the Argonauts at BMO Field, even though I love the CFL and hate soccer. It's unfair to the soccer community to worsen their stadium experience because another team can't find a home. I mean come on–this is Toronto. How could such a big city not have money for a basic soccer stadium as well as a basic football stadium that would probably look very similar.
Well what was Vancouvers excuse then?
     
     
  #4537  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 11:00 AM
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Vancouver could have had a privately built soccer specific stadium on the waterfront built the Whitecaps could never get approval for the project.
     
     
  #4538  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 1:10 PM
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Vancouver could have had a privately built soccer specific stadium on the waterfront built the Whitecaps could never get approval for the project.
Could have, Should have, Would have?

But didn't.....
     
     
  #4539  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 2:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
I don't want the Argonauts at BMO Field, even though I love the CFL and hate soccer. It's unfair to the soccer community to worsen their stadium experience because another team can't find a home. I mean come on–this is Toronto. How could such a big city not have money for a basic soccer stadium as well as a basic football stadium that would probably look very similar.
What is the big deal with combining soccer and football stadiums? The field dimensions are practically the same... this is a huge mountain being made out of a molehill.

Look at how many arenas house basketball and hockey successfully, including the ACC. All you need are risers that pull out to come right up to the ends of a basketball court, and retract to make room for hockey rinks. BC Place does this successfully for soccer, and I'm not sure why it can't be done at BMO.

This whole "issue" seems to be more about fan ego than anything else... for whatever reason there is some prestige associated with having a soccer-only stadium. That's why you're seeing this backlash when putting football into BMO would have a negligible effect on the fan experience.
     
     
  #4540  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2014, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
What is the big deal with combining soccer and football stadiums? The field dimensions are practically the same... this is a huge mountain being made out of a molehill.

Look at how many arenas house basketball and hockey successfully, including the ACC. All you need are risers that pull out to come right up to the ends of a basketball court, and retract to make room for hockey rinks. BC Place does this successfully for soccer, and I'm not sure why it can't be done at BMO.

This whole "issue" seems to be more about fan ego than anything else... for whatever reason there is some prestige associated with having a soccer-only stadium. That's why you're seeing this backlash when putting football into BMO would have a negligible effect on the fan experience.
It's more an issue for soccer than football. Fans like being right behind the goal. If the stadium accommodates football, those seats will need to be pushed back a good 15-20 yards.

Canadian football fans know all too well how much it — playing in a baseball or athletics stadium. Soccer fans are no different in their desire for a great fan experience. The ones that don't care are so used to crappy sight lines, that they don't see a problem (Eskimos fans). It's like having a cell phone then asking people to go back to home phones. The people who haven't discovered cell phones yet don't understand what the fuss is about. Wanting sport specific facilities has nothing to do with ego or prestige.

You're correct that hockey arenas routinely double as basketball arenas. They look fine on television, but any one who grew up with proper basketball specific facilities know what a big step down it is. They do slope the lower bowl stands to meet the end of the basketball court, but it's a compromise solution at best. Even the University of Minnesota has separate arenas for basketball and hockey. NBA and NHL often pair up in the same building not because its optimal for fans, but because they often have the same owner and its optimal for them.

If the Argonauts end up at BMO I'll be happy though. They deserve their own football specific stadium, but BMO represents a vast improvement over anything they've played in since the 1950s. I'll take it.

Last edited by isaidso; Jan 10, 2014 at 4:37 PM.
     
     
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