CF Pacific Centre Developments

[LeftCoaster]

Absolutely. The difficult proposition for Nordstrom will not be hitting the price point but recreating the service they are renowned for.

From everything I have seen so far they are taking a very hands on approach though so I expect good things.

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by theKB

Nordstrom/Saks etc will all cater to a customer who is after higher end products and a certain calibre of service. Price is not as big of an issue.
Look at whole foods, they are wildly successful up here.

I hope your right, as I wish them much success ... but, everyone needs to eat, and no one needs designer jeans.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

Nordstroms should be sweating a bit. Target's Canadian expansion has been a total financial disaster thus far.
The figures for Q3 have posted a loss of $238 Million.

Is that your call or theirs? Without more detail on the financial statements, you can't call anything.

Target can certainly afford this type of loss as they expand into a new market.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

I hope your right, as I wish them much success ... but, everyone needs to eat, and no one needs designer jeans.

Everyone does need to eat. My local (Yaletown) Urban Fare is packed every day. There are many people who seem to be able to afford to shop there and Whole Foods for their food, and still wear designer jeans and drive expensive cars.

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Is that your call or theirs? Without more detail on the financial statements, you can't call anything.

It's a market call.
Don't be afraid to use your brain, before opening your mouth.
https://businessincanada.com/2013/11...rnings-canada/

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

It's a market call.
Don't be afraid to use your brain, before opening your mouth.
https://businessincanada.com/2013/11...rnings-canada/

Don't be afraid to have an intelligent discussion rather than throwing insults around. You called their Canadian stores "a total financial disaster". I'm pretty sure you don't know what most of those words mean.

Target beat profit expectations on lower than expected revenue. That's pretty damn good if you run a business.

A one day market reaction doesn't mean much of anything.

They specifically said they were still on track to open all stores before the end of the year, and expected performance to improve over time.

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Don't be afraid to have an intelligent discussion rather than throwing insults around.

Sorry, I have no respect for you. Your nothing more than background noise.

[squeezied]

Seriously TwoFace? Care to explain how high end brands continue to exist? You might have no need or want to buy designer jeans, but that's not stopping others from wanting them.

I feel you're just throwing in inane conversation just to stir things up.

[Thousands Wouldn't]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

Nordstroms should be sweating a bit. Target's Canadian expansion has been a total financial disaster thus far.
The figures for Q3 have posted a loss of $238 Million.

That's only because they overestimated their immediate impact. Foolish yes, but it made the shareholders happy.

[officedweller]

What should be more worrying to Nordstrom (in the Vancouver market) is that 2 past department stores who tried to move upscale both failed - first Woodward's, then Eaton's (and that doesn't count Sears' attempt to maintain eatons as a higher end division). On top of that, since then, Husdon's Bay has moved upscale and Holt Renfrew has expanded.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by officedweller

What should be more worrying to Nordstrom (in the Vancouver market) is that 2 past department stores who tried to move upscale both failed - first Woodward's, then Eaton's (and that doesn't count Sears' attempt to maintain eatons as a higher end division). On top of that, since then, Husdon's Bay has moved upscale and Holt Renfrew has expanded.

I think there you have your problem. Moving upscale instead of being upscale. I find that retailers who try to be something they aren't tend to fail at it. Look at JC Penny, they made an attempt at being "cool" by rebranding and hiring some big names but it failed because they turned away from their core and became a copy of something they weren't in the first place. With the Bay it seems like they are making an attempt to create new market space for themselves but still holding on to their core consumer but frankly from a mens department perspective its still the same old bay. I think they will have a success with Saks on their hands because it will bring the Saks culture with it. Holt Renfrew fails (in Vancouver anyway) with their service although this is not something that is unique to holt in Vancouver. Holt does have a few good career salespeople but overall it really is pretty bad.

I think people will be the biggest struggle that Nordstrom, Saks and any other large american entrant into the Vancouver market will face. Neimans, Saks, Nordstrom etc all seem to groom people who are passionate and helpful salespeople that are there to serve the consumer and build a relationship with them. I really hope that this will be the case and it will force Holt and the Bay to elevate their staff to that level, it certainly would be a pleasant change.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

Sorry, I have no respect for you. Your nothing more than background noise.

Easy there internet tough guy.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

Sorry, I have no respect for you. Your nothing more than background noise.

You need to learn to be a bit more respectful. And to spell.

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by theKB

With the Bay it seems like they are making an attempt to create new market space for themselves but still holding on to their core consumer but frankly from a mens department perspective its still the same old bay. I think they will have a success with Saks on their hands because it will bring the Saks culture with it.

You seem to know a bit about retail, so my curiosity is what exactly is the "new" Bay.
Last time I was in there it seemed that the Bay has decided to leverage their risk by taking on a role of a lessor for all those upscale brands, and in turn has minimized their personal retail footprint to a fraction of what it was prior to the renovations.
Am I on track with this, or are they just highlighting those brands more and still carrying all that square footage?.

[EdinVan]

Where is the "off-topic police?"

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

What should be more worrying to Nordstrom (in the Vancouver market) is that 2 past department stores who tried to move upscale both failed - first Woodward's, then Eaton's (and that doesn't count Sears' attempt to maintain eatons as a higher end division). On top of that, since then, Husdon's Bay has moved upscale and Holt Renfrew has expanded.

Eaton's and later Sears attempted to go 'upscale' but they were really not up to standard with truly international department stores like French retailer La Fayette or Japanese ones like Isetan, Takashimaya or Daimaru, or British department store giant Harrod's or Derbenhams.

The interior decor of Sears in downtown Van was halfheartedly done, and the overall ambience just felt a little better than its suburban counterparts, which are really appalling by international retail standards. Hence not only tourists, but even locals rejected these mediocre stores.

Vancouver has never ever seen any world class department store but I have to say the recent improvements by the Bay downtown is looking positive, if only they could lower their price tags more.

[Tony]

Please keep the conversation clean and free of insults.

Thanks.

[red-paladin]

The insulting post and response have been deleted.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

You seem to know a bit about retail, so my curiosity is what exactly is the "new" Bay.
Last time I was in there it seemed that the Bay has decided to leverage their risk by taking on a role of a lessor for all those upscale brands, and in turn has minimized their personal retail footprint to a fraction of what it was prior to the renovations.
Am I on track with this, or are they just highlighting those brands more and still carrying all that square footage?.

You are probably correct on that one where you see some of the larger footprints for various brands although Retail Insider might have more insight on that front. With that said some of the smaller representations are certainly their own dime on the line. One brand manager I have spoken with (high end boutique line that is very specialty) is actually pulling their line from the bay because the staff don't take the time to properly sell the product.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by Vin

The interior decor of Sears in downtown Van was halfheartedly done, and the overall ambience just felt a little better than its suburban counterparts, which are really appalling by international retail standards. Hence not only tourists, but even locals rejected these mediocre stores.

Vancouver has never ever seen any world class department store but I have to say the recent improvements by the Bay downtown is looking positive, if only they could lower their price tags more.

The interior of the more upscale downtown Sears locations in Vancouver and Toronto were leftovers from the failed 'eatons' experiment which Sears attempted. My guess is that Sears wished to retained those prized EATON'S locations as they inherited the ridiculously low, early 70's, lease rates but really had not idea what to do with these giant spaces as Sears was more geared towards the 2 level suburban format.

The locations quickly deteriorated, lines were dropped very fast and floors were closed, the visual teams were let go and the Vancouver store became a total conceptual mess for the last 5 years of it's life. It also became a total embarrassment close to the end and most of us were very happy to see it go.

I feel the Bay has done a remarkable job with it's repositioning and re-branding without totally abandoning it's core audience, it was a gradual shift that didn't exclude mum and grandma. In the downtown Vancouver store, The TOPMAN / TOPSHOP idea for the lower level was brilliant, it transformed the old men's floor from a passageway to the Skytrain to a lively hub and destination, with a distict London vibe. The 6th floor men's floor is not only beautiful but conceptually brilliant as it pulls people through the entire store. The second floor, women's level and The Room is brilliant, visually stunning and on a par with the likes of Selfridges in the UK.

Price-wise, if feel the Bay still offers good value, the men's floor, for example, offers a very broad range of lines and very good depth of product, there's more Diesel and G-Star than in Holts for example, and they turn product fast by discounting rather quickly.

Overall Hudson's Bay is well postioned to take on Nordstrom IMO and will likely always be slightly edgier and innovative and have of more cosmopolitan and trendy feel.