Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[FrankieFlowerpot]

By Waldorfian at the Ticats.ca Forum

The back of the main stand at THF

[many]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Except that that stadium was largely built with public money.

Yes, Rogers owns it now. But it's not like they built it from scratch with their own private money.

Most of the investment in Rogers Centre was by taxpayers, and for some reason Rogers was only required to pay back a tiny fraction of that when they acquired it from the government.

rogers didn't buy it from the government, they bought it from Sportsco for 25 million because no one else wanted the Skydome. Sportsco paid 74 million for it in 1999 and there was only one other bidder at the time, that apparently came from labatt who owned the jays and 48% of the Skydome. So unless you own a sports team you are not interested in the building alone.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by many

rogers didn't buy it from the government, they bought it from Sportsco for 25 million because no one else wanted the Skydome. Sportsco paid 74 million for it in 1999 and there was only one other bidder at the time, that apparently came from labatt who owned the jays and 48% of the Skydome. So unless you own a sports team you are not interested in the building alone.

Love this article from Toronto's Eye Weekly circa 1993:

For more than a year there have been on-going negotiations between the provincial government and the private sector to sell off SkyDome as part of a government plan to reduce its deficit.

"Bob Rae has done many stupid things, but the dumbest is his plan to sell off the SkyDome for less than it's really worth," the SkyDome investor said. "That's not the way to reduce deficits. It makes no sense. The government will still come out $300 million to $400 million short on the deal. Why do it then?

(...)

As far as the SkyDome investor sees it, the privatization of the stadium complex is little more than theft from the public treasury.

A $570 million (in 1980s dollars) publicly-funded stadium falls into the hands Rogers for a scant $25 million only 15 years later. As a result, one of the tenants that the place was built for in the first place gets the shaft at every possible opportunity and has now been served its eviction notice. That is downright scandalous.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Villaggio

I sadly find that people in Toronto don't seem to care at all about our Argos. Just take a look at the number of fans per sport team in Toronto on Facebook:

Leafs: 765 000
Raptors: 468 000
Blue Jays: 563 000
TFC: 88 000
...
Argos: 22 000

Anybody can explain this? Especially that the 4 most popular clubs have sucked for years and the Argos won the Grey Cup las year? Unacceptable!

The league and team are sort of treated like a social pariah by the local media in general (especially Rogers) and so that is the overwhelming view. Ratings are actually quite good (see last year's Grey Cup and general Southern Ontario regular season games), but somehow it seems to be a hidden guilty pleasure that no one can know about. Afterall, if the market really didn't care at all, the ratings would be non-existent, which makes some of the other Toronto teams interesting. The Jays have a lot of social/media approval and decent TV numbers (although generally less than the CFL - remember that the Jays consider all of Canada their "local" market), but the Raptors (which also consider Canada as their market to a degree)/TFC are almost opposite to the Argos, lots of media support but absolutely terrible TV ratings in general. The Leafs are obviously King of both in the market.

The Argos are also sort of the odd man out in the market, big media companies own the other teams, but the Argos are separate, which adds to the fact that the media has a vested interest to promote its own teams/agenda more or that other non-affiliated media might have to play nice with the other teams to ensure access to the Leafs.

There's also the point that while media in Canada are generally free to be as negative as they want about the CFL because it is a domestic league, they can't act the same way to the other leagues as most Americans/those leagues would probably just turn around and say "F U", pull content, and watch them flounder, since the American leagues really couldn't care less (nor does it have to) about the Canadian market in the grand scheme of things. The Canadian media works from a point of power re: the CFL, while with other leagues, they come from a point of weakness/insignificance.

The NHL is of course a bit different, but if Americans actually bought into the league and supported it like they do the other leagues, we'd likely have lost more than just the Jets and Nordiques back in the day, and they'd never be back.


---

I'll qualify that a lot of this is just my opinions/observations (a bit from the outside looking in in some cases), and a few interesting thoughts/musings I've had.

[many]

Originally Posted by esquire

Love this article from Toronto's Eye Weekly circa 1993:



A $570 million (in 1980s dollars) publicly-funded stadium falls into the hands Rogers for a scant $25 million only 15 years later. As a result, one of the tenants that the place was built for in the first place gets the shaft at every possible opportunity and has now been served its eviction notice. That is downright scandalous.

Bob Rae was clearly a **** but Rogers Centre was and is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. I bet if someone wanted to buy Rogers Centre from Rogers it would be worth less then the 25 million they paid for it.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

By Waldorfian at the Ticats.ca Forum

The back of the main stand at THF

Is it just me, or does it seem like the sky is falling?

(Are they upside down fr anyone else?)

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by many

Bob Rae was clearly a **** but Rogers Centre was and is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. I bet if someone wanted to buy Rogers Centre from Rogers it would be worth less then the 25 million they paid for it.

If Rogers was willing to sell it now for $25 mill, Braley would jump on it in a heartbeat.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Villaggio

I sadly find that people in Toronto don't seem to care at all about our Argos. Just take a look at the number of fans per sport team in Toronto on Facebook:

Leafs: 765 000
Raptors: 468 000
Blue Jays: 563 000
TFC: 88 000
...
Argos: 22 000

Anybody can explain this? Especially that the 4 most popular clubs have sucked for years and the Argos won the Grey Cup las year? Unacceptable!

Contrast that with this, it is a conundrum

CFL Commissioner talks about the Ticats, Argos and Rob Ford
Why are the Ticats and Argos so important to the CFL
CBC News Nov 15, 2013

Marc Cohon Interview Link

[FrankieFlowerpot]

The land alone that the Rogers Centre sits on is worth $250million

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Villaggio

I sadly find that people in Toronto don't seem to care at all about our Argos. Just take a look at the number of fans per sport team in Toronto on Facebook:

Leafs: 765 000
Raptors: 468 000
Blue Jays: 563 000
TFC: 88 000
...
Argos: 22 000

Anybody can explain this? Especially that the 4 most popular clubs have sucked for years and the Argos won the Grey Cup las year? Unacceptable!

A few other factors:

- the Argo fan base is an older demographic so less plugged into social media

- the Argos aren't part of a hyper-charged US-based marketing machine like the MLB, NHL and NBA that drives social media activity through innovation, spin-offs and promotion

- it's also likely that the Argos, like most CFL clubs, really suck at marketing of any kind and always seem to be one or two steps behind the pace

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

- it's also likely that the Argos, like most CFL clubs, really suck at marketing of any kind and always seem to be one or two steps behind the pace

Bingo. The Bombers, which are one of the better-supported teams in the league, are absolutely horrendous at marketing. For as long as I have been a fan (pushing 25 years now), they constantly seem to be about 15 years behind the curve when it comes to marketing.

This arrangement reflects the shoestring nature of the CFL... there isn't a lot of extra money to support the legions of marketing flacks and PR firms that an outfit like MLSE has at its disposal.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by esquire

Bingo. The Bombers, which are one of the better-supported teams in the league, are absolutely horrendous at marketing. For as long as I have been a fan (pushing 25 years now), they constantly seem to be about 15 years behind the curve when it comes to marketing.

This arrangement reflects the shoestring nature of the CFL... there isn't a lot of extra money to support the legions of marketing flacks and PR firms that an outfit like MLSE has at its disposal.

I think some teams have had flashes of solid marketing. BC was solid after Braley bought them, but have started to wane a little, Edmonton was a powerhouse both on the field and in marketing for years, Montreal did well for a little while, and for the last decade or so the Riders have put in a lot of effort and are kind of tearing it up now. The league overall has taken a huge leap since Cohon joined though, and I will be looking for another huge leap with the next media deal/Ottawa restarting.

[Jay in Cowtown]

Originally Posted by Nathan

I think some teams have had flashes of solid marketing. BC was solid after Braley bought them, but have started to wane a little, Edmonton was a powerhouse both on the field and in marketing for years, Montreal did well for a little while, and for the last decade or so the Riders have put in a lot of effort and are kind of tearing it up now. The league overall has taken a huge leap since Cohon joined though, and I will be looking for another huge leap with the next media deal/Ottawa restarting.

The Flames Group do a very good job of marketing the Stamps.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Acajack

- it's also likely that the Argos, like most CFL clubs, really suck at marketing of any kind and always seem to be one or two steps behind the pace

Bingo. There is almost zero marketing for the Argos here.

Hell, go to Real Sports store outside the ACC and you can get Leafs stuff, Marlies stuff, TFC stuff, Jays stuff, European soccer stuff, NFL stuff, Arg- oh wait, there is zero Argos/CFL merchandise in Real Sports. It's absurd.

[Prometheus]

The television ratings for the CFL Division Finals on TSN are in:

TICATS-ARGOS GAME SETS RECORD FOR EASTERN FINAL ON TSN

TSN, 11/18/2013

Yesterday's CFL Divisional Finals on TSN delivered big audiences, including a record audience for the Eastern Final on English television. Overall, 7.3 million Canadians watched some part of the 2013 CFL Divisional Finals on TSN.

A full breakdown of overnight audience data from BBM Canada is outlined below:

Eastern Final

The Eastern Final featuring Hamilton @ Toronto attracted an average audience of 1.7 million viewers on TSN – making it the most-watched Eastern Final ever on English television. Audiences for the all-Ontario matchup were up 21% compared to last year's average audience of 1.4 million viewers on TSN.

Audience levels peaked at 3.1 million viewers on TSN late in the game as the Tiger-Cats held on to defeat the Toronto Argonauts 24-17.

Western Final

The Western Final featuring Saskatchewan @ Calgary was watched by an average audience of 1.9 million viewers on TSN, up 2% compared to last year's Western Final.

Audience levels peaked at 2.7 million on TSN in the fourth quarter of the game as the Saskatchewan Roughriders completed a 35-13 upset of the Calgary Stampeders.

Source: http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=436925

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Jay in Cowtown

The Flames Group do a very good job of marketing the Stamps.

I wasn't sure how things were going post-purchase, so I chose not to comment. Glad to hear they are working on things in Calgary too.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

The television ratings for the CFL Eastern Final are in:

The CFL Eastern Final between Hamilton Tiger-Cats and the Toronto Argonauts was the most watched Eastern Final on English TV ever, with 1.7 million viewers watching from start to finish. Up 21% from last year.

Source: https://twitter.com/CFL_PR/status/402572344574869505

And the East peaked at a little over 3 mill. The west ratings were in a TSN article. Average of 1.9 mill, but with a lower peak of 2.7 mill. Good news story all-around.

I don't expect this year's Grey Cup to be quite as high as last's (being the 100th and all), but would love to be pleasantly surprised.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Bingo. There is almost zero marketing for the Argos here.

Hell, go to Real Sports store outside the ACC and you can get Leafs stuff, Marlies stuff, TFC stuff, Jays stuff, European soccer stuff, NFL stuff, Arg- oh wait, there is zero Argos/CFL merchandise in Real Sports. It's absurd.

I bought a pair of Argos t-shirts from Real Sports last summer....

You mean the one right close to the ACC right? I saw a huge rack of Argos jerseys and other apparel there...

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

I bought a pair of Argos t-shirts from Real Sports last summer....

You mean the one right close to the ACC right? I saw a huge rack of Argos jerseys and other apparel there...

Maybe they were sold out....

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I don't care about symmetrical fields, but I do care about ambience. Regarding football, does anyone remember when we went from 25 yard end zones to 20? I still think they're a touch too big. I don't want a US sized field, but would prefer 15 yard end zones and the field narrowed ever so slightly to 60 yards from 65.

I do like the larger Canadian field, but it's just too damn big. Few QBs even at the pro level can throw to the wide side of the field while throws to the end zone are often caught with no defender anywhere close. Tightening it up would make for a better game.

I completely agree. I think that having such deep end zones makes the end zone seats an almost unbearable place to watch a game in the CFL. The difference between the 360 foot total field length in the NFL and 450 foot total field length in the CFL makes a huge difference as far as ambiance goes.