Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[elly63]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I don't want a US sized field, but would prefer 15 yard end zones and the field narrowed ever so slightly to 60 yards from 65.

Strange thing to say, as the NFL is seriously considering widening their field in the hope of opening it up to help mitigate serious injuries.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by elly63

Strange thing to say, as the NFL is seriously considering widening their field in the hope of opening it up to help mitigate serious injuries.

Their field is considerably narrower than ours.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Go to the USA and watch NFL then...

That's the dumbest/most insulting thing I've heard in months. I don't want a 10 yard end zone, 4 downs, or field that's 100 yards by 53 yards. Nor do I want any of the other rules associated with US football. How would watching the NFL or going to the US possibly be an alternative? And why on earth would I want to start watching foreign teams play?

Originally Posted by Dalreg

You're in Canada and claim to be a CFL fan, then enjoy the game the way it is.

The CFL has been tweaking its product for 100 years. The idea that no other alterations are ever possible and that people that suggest some don't like the CFL is ridiculous. The CFL commissioner himself asked fans for their ideas about changes just a few seasons ago. Does that make Cohon someone who isn't a CFL fan? I better tell him that Dalreg wants him to get out of Canada!

What a complete bone head comment on your part. You claim to like Canada, but can't handle other people's opinions/suggestions. Perhaps you should go to the US.

[esquire]

I highly doubt that the CFL is going to change its field size anytime soon. 12 men a side on a NFL sized field would be a bit wonky, and if you take a player off to adjust for that then really, might as well just add a 4th down and call it a day.

Still, it is a bit weird that BC Place was built with only enough room for 20 yard end zones. Even the people in San Antonio built the Alamodome big enough for a CFL-sized field, why didn't they do that in Vancouver? Or did the CFL agree in advance to shrink the field? It might have made sense given that a couple stadiums at the time couldn't accommodate the full size field without corner cuts.

If you look at photos of old CFL stadiums, the endzones look monstrous with that extra 5 yards.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by isaidso

And why on earth would I want to start watching foreign teams play?

So...the alternative to foreign American teams is Canadian teams comprised of American players? It's the same kind of argument Canadians make when discussing NHL teams and why X team doesn't deserve a franchise/Stanley Cup.

[Dalreg]

"You said so", not going to start a fight with you. You are opinionated and love to push your agenda, so be it.

I'll say this. You don't like the size of the field, the number of players, etc, then don't watch the CFL.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^Ah yes, the old 'If you're not with us, then you're against us' routine. Nice.

I've always found CFL end zones to be absurdly deep. I don't particularly care for the NFL game and don't even watch it but I wouldn't complain if the CFL wanted to tweak that part of the field.

The sport, in all of its incarnations - Rugby (Union and League), AFL, Gaelic football, CFL, NFL - has always been open to change. There's nothing wrong with having that discussion.

[many]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

@Many

I appreciate your feelings re Skydome. The good news is the Jays recognise its failings and are working towards some interesting solutions. I think people would be surprised what could be done to make Skydome seem a little more authentic.

If you haven't already, make a point of doing a ball park road trip. There are so many wonderful MLB and minor league parks out there - some even in this country!

That's the problem I've been to other mlb games including some triple a games then I go to rogers centre and say people need to be reminded rogers centre will be the last multi built stadium once Oakland gets their new ballpark in San Jose most likely and Tampa desperately wants a new park, but can't break their lease agreement yet, but they will probably get their way somehow, teams always do. Once these teams get their new digs Rogers centre will be one of the 10 oldest stadiums in mlb that baseball fan hate.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by many

That's the problem I've been to other mlb games including some triple a games then I go to rogers centre and say people need to be reminded rogers centre will be the last multi built stadium once Oakland gets their new ballpark in San Jose most likely and Tampa desperately wants a new park, but can't break their lease agreement yet, but they will probably get their way somehow, teams always do. Once these teams get their new digs Rogers centre will be one of the 10 oldest stadiums in mlb that baseball fan hate.

Not all baseball fans. Mainly you.

I love Rogers Center, every baseball fan I talk to loves Rogers Center; in fact most people in Toronto in general tell me they love Rogers Center.

In the American League, the Jays are generally in the top 10 of attendance figures, despite having an absolutely awful team most years. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/attend.shtml

In sum, what the actual fuck are you going on about.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

He likes traditional ballparks - just leave it and stop piling on.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

^Ah yes, the old 'If you're not with us, then you're against us' routine. Nice.

I've always found CFL end zones to be absurdly deep. I don't particularly care for the NFL game and don't even watch it but I wouldn't complain if the CFL wanted to tweak that part of the field.

The sport, in all of its incarnations - Rugby (Union and League), AFL, Gaelic football, CFL, NFL - has always been open to change. There's nothing wrong with having that discussion.

Nope just against anyone who isn't pro CFL...

[many]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

Not all baseball fans. Mainly you.

I love Rogers Center, every baseball fan I talk to loves Rogers Center; in fact most people in Toronto in general tell me they love Rogers Center.

In the American League, the Jays are generally in the top 10 of attendance figures, despite having an absolutely awful team most years. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/attend.shtml

In sum, what the actual fuck are you going on about.

Nobody has to take my word on this or your word on the Rogers Centre, they only have to listen to our sports radio stations when they talk about fans who travel to other mlb teams stadiums and comparing it to ours and it's never on the good side, except when they mention Tampa or Oakland and like I mentioned both could get a new stadium.

[The_Architect]

I like the Skydome for being unique. On tv unless they mention it you can't tell the difference between Progressive Field, Comerica Park and Target Field, to use 2 examples. They're all "baseball parks" but don't have anything truly special about them. You immediately know when a team is in the Skydome, for some bad reasons and for many good reasons.

When the dome is closed and there aren't many people in there it can seem cavernous and devoid of atmosphere, but you could say that about many places. Dome open, 30,000+ crowd, nice day is as good as almost any other park.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

I like the Skydome for being unique. On tv unless they mention it you can't tell the difference between Progressive Field, Comerica Park and Target Field, to use 2 examples. They're all "baseball parks" but don't have anything truly special about them. You immediately know when a team is in the Skydome, for some bad reasons and for many good reasons.

There is some irony in the fact that baseball teams rushed away from lookalike "cookie cutter" stadiums and replaced them with a bunch of lookalike faux-retro stadiums. Roughly half of the MLB parks look pretty much the same: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_stadiums

Granted, the newest facility, Marlins Park (as garish as it is) does have a distinctive look to it. Perhaps it is a sign of things to come as the 1990s and 2000s ballparks start getting replaced.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

I like the Skydome for being unique. On tv unless they mention it you can't tell the difference between Progressive Field, Comerica Park and Target Field, to use 2 examples. They're all "baseball parks" but don't have anything truly special about them. You immediately know when a team is in the Skydome, for some bad reasons and for many good reasons.

When the dome is closed and there aren't many people in there it can seem cavernous and devoid of atmosphere, but you could say that about many places. Dome open, 30,000+ crowd, nice day is as good as almost any other park.

A few things about Rogers Centre...

It doesn't have the character of Fenway or Wrigley or even newer places like Camden Yards, but I've been to a dozen sporting events there and agree that it's pretty good.

A lot of the criticism comes either from fans of older traditional ballparks and that's fair enough. As a modern stadium that doesn't claim to be neo-traditional, I tend to agree that it's a good one.

A second pocket of criticism comes from CFL fans who are seeking a silver bullet to save the Argos, and they blame the stadium for the problem. But if there were 35,000-40,000 in there or more for every Argos game, people wouldn't complain about the stadium.

Sure, a more cosy open air neo-traditional football stadium might rejuvenate interest in the Argos (cue the references to U2, Montreal, Molson Stadium, the Big O, etc.), but that is only part of the issue I'd say, and would only go so far when it comes to resolving it.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

A second pocket of criticism comes from CFL fans who are seeking a silver bullet to save the Argos, and they blame the stadium for the problem. But if there were 35,000-40,000 in there or more for every Argos game, people wouldn't complain about the stadium.

Sure, a more cosy open air neo-traditional football stadium might rejuvenate interest in the Argos (cue the references to U2, Montreal, Molson Stadium, the Big O, etc.), but that is only part of the issue I'd say, and would only go so far when it comes to resolving it.

The only legitimate major criticism of Skydome as it relates to CFL football is that it's too big to generate much in the way of crowd atmosphere. Since moving into the place in 1989, the Argos have tried every trick in the book and simply cannot attract an average crowd exceeding 35,000 fans a game. That's still nearly 20,000 short of a sellout. But when the place is more than half full it can rock, as we saw in the East Final or at last year's Grey Cup.

There is no question that there is a huge deadening effect when you have 20,000 fans in the stands and 35,000 empty seats, but is it worth it to trade the convenience and comforts of Skydome for a second rate facility like BMO whose only real attraction is that it would allow the Argos to claim that they play in front of "sold out" crowds?

[The_Architect]

A big reason I want the Argos out of the Skydome is to get away from Rogers. They're doing their best to kill the team. Schedule ALL the Tuesday/Thursday games! AND even with the Argos hosting the east Final this weekend, you'd never even guess they played there with all the banners advertising a non-local team in a foreign league playing one game there in December!

Fuck you, Rogers.

[many]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

A big reason I want the Argos out of the Skydome is to get away from Rogers. They're doing their best to kill the team. Schedule ALL the Tuesday/Thursday games! AND even with the Argos hosting the east Final this weekend, you'd never even guess they played there with all the banners advertising a non-local team in a foreign league playing one game there in December!

Fuck you, Rogers.

if the Argos want to get a better schedule pay more rent to rogers or buy their own stadium they don't bring enough revenue for rogers to really care about how they treat them

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by many

if the Argos want to get a better schedule pay more rent to rogers or buy their own stadium they don't bring enough revenue for rogers to really care about how they treat them

Except that that stadium was largely built with public money.

Yes, Rogers owns it now. But it's not like they built it from scratch with their own private money.

Most of the investment in Rogers Centre was by taxpayers, and for some reason Rogers was only required to pay back a tiny fraction of that when they acquired it from the government.

[Villaggio]

I sadly find that people in Toronto don't seem to care at all about our Argos. Just take a look at the number of fans per sport team in Toronto on Facebook:

Leafs: 765 000
Raptors: 468 000
Blue Jays: 563 000
TFC: 88 000
...
Argos: 22 000

Anybody can explain this? Especially that the 4 most popular clubs have sucked for years and the Argos won the Grey Cup las year? Unacceptable!