Regina | New Mosaic Stadium

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

. . . . . yes; however, it'll still be a white elephant for about 6 months/year. (I personally hope that they still make it roof-ready though - just in case.)

It will not be a White Elephant just because it will sit empty for part of the year. It is a football stadium built to hold football games. That is it. It will do its job just fine. It should generate enough income to cover its expenses. Nobody ever calls MLB stadiums White Elephants just because they don't play baseball in January. Nobody calls NFL stadiums White Elephants just because they sit empty in the off season.

Something does not have to be used year around to be considered viable, especially when it comes to sports or big events. NASCAR tracks only host 1-2 big races per year yet they are highly profitable. Texas Motor Speedway was built for $250 million and holds 190,000 seats. It only hosts 2 major NASCAR races each year, but those races are enough to make this a very profitable racetrack. Would you consider it a White Elephant just because they aren't running races in January? This stadium will be far from a White Elephant (unless for some reason the CFL shuts down).

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by Welkin

It will not be a White Elephant just because it will sit empty for part of the year. It is a football stadium built to hold football games. That is it. It will do its job just fine. It should generate enough income to cover its expenses. Nobody ever calls MLB stadiums White Elephants just because they don't play baseball in January. Nobody calls NFL stadiums White Elephants just because they sit empty in the off season.

Something does not have to be used year around to be considered viable, especially when it comes to sports or big events. NASCAR tracks only host 1-2 big races per year yet they are highly profitable. Texas Motor Speedway was built for $250 million and holds 190,000 seats. It only hosts 2 major NASCAR races each year, but those races are enough to make this a very profitable racetrack. Would you consider it a White Elephant just because they aren't running races in January? This stadium will be far from a White Elephant (unless for some reason the CFL shuts down).

NASCAR facilities are located at climatologically-accommodating locations. Besides that, try doming a NASCAR track.

My argument simply is: why build another massive outdoor stadium knowing the climate we have? Furthermore, the main caveat for financing was that it be roof-ready. When the time comes to stick a lid on 'er, the facility would likely be shut down for a whole season in order to complete the job. And, . . . . as time goes by, the cost of installing the aforementioned roof will skyrocket as well --- guaranteed.

If this was to be a domed stadium for certain, it would have the potential of being utilized year-round. ( . . . and would be the only facility of this calibre for a very significant portion of North America.)

[North_Regina_Boy]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

NASCAR facilities are located at climatologically-accommodating locations. Besides that, try doming a NASCAR track.

My argument simply is: why build another massive outdoor stadium knowing the climate we have? Furthermore, the main caveat for financing was that it be roof-ready. When the time comes to stick a lid on 'er, the facility would likely be shut down for a whole season in order to complete the job. And, . . . . as time goes by, the cost of installing the aforementioned roof will skyrocket as well --- guaranteed.

If this was to be a domed stadium for certain, it would have the potential of being utilized year-round. ( . . . and would be the only facility of this calibre for a very significant portion of North America.)

Only one that would work would be Bristol. Which would be amazing to see! 160,000+ indoor Race Track. WOW!

[The Unknown Poster]

We had the roof debate here in Winnipeg. Trust me, you don't need a roof.

[Dillweed]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

We had the roof debate here in Winnipeg. Trust me, you don't need a roof.

No but would it at least make sense for a little extra money to have a design that would allow you to keep your options open and if warranted install a retractable roof at some point in the future. Makes perfect sense to me, after all who knows what the future will bring. Ten years from now we could be in Global Cooling or the Roughriders could be playing in the NFL.

The Roughriders have shown this year that they can put more than 40,000 fans in seats for a regular season game more than once. I think if anything they should be looking at something with a little larger permanent seating capacity say north of 35,000 and expandable closer to 50,000. But I doubt at this stage in the designing process they are going to change their minds from what they have already announced.

[esquire]

The roof debate really boils down to how much extra revenue will the roof generate. Will the expected increase in season ticket sales and increased revenues from other events pay for the additional cost of a roof?

Personally, I think the answer is that it's pretty unlikely. A roof probably won't have a significant effect on Rider ticket sales (other than piddly stuff like improved walkups on cold/wet days). It probably won't lead to another major tenant - the best-case scenario is maybe a sub-MLS soccer team might join the fray. So it really boils down to whether the extra concerts and shows would be enough to pay for the roof. You'd have to hold an amazing number of stadium shows to make it worthwhile.

I guess there was that one pitch a while ago for a dome that included a hockey rink... maybe if the facility became Regina's main hockey arena too it could work, but really... large stadiums are never ideal for hockey and basketball. People hated Tropicana Field when it hosted the Lightning, and Skydome was a terrible home to the Raptors. Turning a domed stadium into a home to the Pats would turn the fans off after the novelty died.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by esquire

I guess there was that one pitch a while ago for a dome that included a hockey rink... maybe if the facility became Regina's main hockey arena too it could work, but really... large stadiums are never ideal for hockey and basketball. People hated Tropicana Field when it hosted the Lightning, and Skydome was a terrible home to the Raptors. Turning a domed stadium into a home to the Pats would turn the fans off after the novelty died.

Sounds like something I heard for the old Silverdome in Pontiac Michigan - a hockey rink underneath a soccer field

[wacko]

I would have doubts about the Roughriders' ability to consistently attract more than 33,000 people on a regular basis (other than Labour Day). True, they have done it this year, but this year they also have a good team, and we're hosting the Grey Cup as well. It would be more interesting to see what the crowds are like when neither of those factors are in play. I really do think 33,000 is the general saturation point, and that's what they're building for. As for future demand, I think they may perhaps be looking to limit the seats somewhat so that they remain in demand and thus encourage people to retain their season tickets (à la Montreal and Molson Stadium). I believe the design requirements call for the new stadium to be expandable to 42,000 for Grey Cups, which seems rather low to me. I'd rather see a figure closer to 45,000.

Ideally, I'd like to see a stadium with wind shielding and a spectator roof. Basically like IGF Field in Winnipeg, only better. That would improve fan comfort without being too expensive. A dome would just be an unnecessary expense solely for the purpose of holding a couple of extra events a year (that we don't already have), and would also generate far greater operational costs for heating and cooling. Just not worth it in my opinion, especially when we're talking about taxpayer money.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by wacko

I would have doubts about the Roughriders' ability to consistently attract more than 33,000 people on a regular basis (other than Labour Day). True, they have done it this year, but this year they also have a good team, and we're hosting the Grey Cup as well. It would be more interesting to see what the crowds are like when neither of those factors are in play. I really do think 33,000 is the general saturation point, and that's what they're building for. As for future demand, I think they may perhaps be looking to limit the seats somewhat so that they remain in demand and thus encourage people to retain their season tickets (à la Montreal and Molson Stadium). I believe the design requirements call for the new stadium to be expandable to 42,000 for Grey Cups, which seems rather low to me. I'd rather see a figure closer to 45,000.

Ideally, I'd like to see a stadium with wind shielding and a spectator roof. Basically like IGF Field in Winnipeg, only better. That would improve fan comfort without being too expensive. A dome would just be an unnecessary expense solely for the purpose of holding a couple of extra events a year (that we don't already have), and would also generate far greater operational costs for heating and cooling. Just not worth it in my opinion, especially when we're talking about taxpayer money.

Population isn't stagnant now though, and probably won't be stagnant again for some time. Regina and area is adding about 6-8k a year with Sask adding 20k or so. And new immigrants have been far more likely to get into the CFL here than elsewhere in the country. The stadium is going to have to last 40 years or so...

I think a good perm capacity would have been 35k, this would allow you to keep some seats lower priced to get the casual/future fan in (which Montreal basically lost), then have Grey Cups up to 45-50k. If it is a closed in bowl like the original design, wind/rain becomes basically a non-issue, and ambient temp will be higher within the stadium than outside, so cold weather games will also be better than the current situation.

But sadly, I think it will be 30-33k with max of 40k

[North_Regina_Boy]

Originally Posted by wacko

I would have doubts about the Roughriders' ability to consistently attract more than 33,000 people on a regular basis (other than Labour Day). True, they have done it this year, but this year they also have a good team, and we're hosting the Grey Cup as well. It would be more interesting to see what the crowds are like when neither of those factors are in play. I really do think 33,000 is the general saturation point, and that's what they're building for. As for future demand, I think they may perhaps be looking to limit the seats somewhat so that they remain in demand and thus encourage people to retain their season tickets (à la Montreal and Molson Stadium). I believe the design requirements call for the new stadium to be expandable to 42,000 for Grey Cups, which seems rather low to me. I'd rather see a figure closer to 45,000.

Ideally, I'd like to see a stadium with wind shielding and a spectator roof. Basically like IGF Field in Winnipeg, only better. That would improve fan comfort without being too expensive. A dome would just be an unnecessary expense solely for the purpose of holding a couple of extra events a year (that we don't already have), and would also generate far greater operational costs for heating and cooling. Just not worth it in my opinion, especially when we're talking about taxpayer money.

True, I think that 33,000-35,000 is a good number of seats. At the West Semi even with the Grey Cup seating we should of had more than 40,000 at that game, but only got around 32,500 or about there.

IMO they should of blacked-out the West-Semi until 40,000 seats had sold. Bunch of "fair-weather" fans we have in this province it seems.

I personally was really warm in my winter gear and had a great time.

That idea to combine a possible 10,000 seat stadium with 15,000-20,000 seat theater / concert bowl under the playing field would have been an amazing idea! But I digress. Plus the people who need ice in the winter would of supported the new stadium if they were going to get a few sheets of ice to play on, plus a GREAT venue for large / medium sized concerts.

I look forward to the design and to see what happens but I would of loved a design similar to what the Silverdome delivers.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by North_Regina_Boy

At the West Semi even with the Grey Cup seating we should of had more than 40,000 at that game, but only got around 32,500 or about there.

CFL.ca has the crowd listed at 30,942.

[North_Regina_Boy]

Originally Posted by rypinion

CFL.ca has the crowd listed at 30,942.

That for a Rider Playoff game is just deplorable. I mean what are all those people who call themselves "Rider Faithful" "Saskatchewan Hardened" doing? Oh wait cold eh... Humm I think I will just watch on TV.

I would of at least expected 35,000. That was the least attended game this year! And it was a PLAYOFF!

For shame Saskatchewan Roughriders fans FOR SHAME! Get your a$$es out and support your team from the stands not the couch.

I firmly believe that the CFL pre-season should start Mid-May and have the Grey Cup at the end of October. That would of made the weather nice enough to have a bunch of people out. BUT I know that interferes with MLB fans. But I think the CFL would draw more then.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by North_Regina_Boy

That for a Rider Playoff game is just deplorable. I mean what are all those people who call themselves "Rider Faithful" "Saskatchewan Hardened" doing? Oh wait cold eh... Humm I think I will just watch on TV.

I would of at least expected 35,000. That was the least attended game this year! And it was a PLAYOFF!

For shame Saskatchewan Roughriders fans FOR SHAME! Get your a$$es out and support your team from the stands not the couch.

I firmly believe that the CFL pre-season should start Mid-May and have the Grey Cup at the end of October. That would of made the weather nice enough to have a bunch of people out. BUT I know that interferes with MLB fans. But I think the CFL would draw more then.

I think part of it is that Rider games are still very much a family affair. Take a look at the summer games, there are waaaay more children at games than other CFL stadiums, and generally parents aren't going to take their kids to a -20 game.

I too wish attendace would have been higher though.

[scotty c]

Originally Posted by Nathan

I think part of it is that Rider games are still very much a family affair. Take a look at the summer games, there are waaaay more children at games than other CFL stadiums, and generally parents aren't going to take their kids to a -20 game.

I too wish attendace would have been higher though.

Another factor to consider is all the expats that come home for vacations from Calgary/Edmonton/Vancouver/Toronto etc. They may plan their trips over the summer to coincide with a game or two when they know the schedule months in advance. We only confirmed we'd be hosting the semi-final a couple weeks early. When you draw from such a huge geographic area as the Riders do, less planning time is worse as people can't always drop things and come into Regina for the weekend.

The exact opposite is happening in Toronto right now where for the 1st time in a long time they've had to open the 500 level for seats. There they can make a spectacle of one game and because there are millions of people within an hour or two it's easier to sell for one important game, than for 10 regular season games.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

There will be no roof on it when it is built initially, unless the Riders fork over the entire cost for one themselves. The funding model is pretty much set in stone now.

* No "full" roof. The current plans do call for a spectator roof though.

[North_Regina_Boy]

Originally Posted by scotty c

Another factor to consider is all the expats that come home for vacations from Calgary/Edmonton/Vancouver/Toronto etc. They may plan their trips over the summer to coincide with a game or two when they know the schedule months in advance. We only confirmed we'd be hosting the semi-final a couple weeks early. When you draw from such a huge geographic area as the Riders do, less planning time is worse as people can't always drop things and come into Regina for the weekend.

The exact opposite is happening in Toronto right now where for the 1st time in a long time they've had to open the 500 level for seats. There they can make a spectacle of one game and because there are millions of people within an hour or two it's easier to sell for one important game, than for 10 regular season games.

I am SO happy that the Toronto people are filling up Skydome (sorry can't call by another name) I hope that it is sold out that would be AMAZING to see! Finally TSN will be able to pan their camera's up without the embarrassing empty stadium being front and center. Love it! BUT Go Ti-Cats Go!

[Dillweed]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Population isn't stagnant now though, and probably won't be stagnant again for some time. Regina and area is adding about 6-8k a year with Sask adding 20k or so. And new immigrants have been far more likely to get into the CFL here than elsewhere in the country. The stadium is going to have to last 40 years or so...

I think a good perm capacity would have been 35k, this would allow you to keep some seats lower priced to get the casual/future fan in (which Montreal basically lost), then have Grey Cups up to 45-50k. If it is a closed in bowl like the original design, wind/rain becomes basically a non-issue, and ambient temp will be higher within the stadium than outside, so cold weather games will also be better than the current situation.

But sadly, I think it will be 30-33k with max of 40k

I agree, I think Regina & Winnipeg should have been looking at a venue with at least 35,000 permanent seats with expansion capability to 45,000 plus for larger venues like Grey Cup. I disagree with Wacko that the Roughriders wouldn't be able to consistantly draw more 33,000 fans per game. On three occasions this year the Riders drew over 40,000, Ok one of them was a little under 40,000. Who can fault people for not turning up to sit in Mosiac stadium for the western semi-finals last week considering the weather. It was the Riders biggest game of the year and drew their smallest crowd. The unfortunate thing about this country is that about the time the playoffs start is when the weather starts to turn nasty. I think the last time the Riders hosted a playoff game it was one of their smaller crowds too. I think had the Riders been playing in a better venue than Mosiac there would have been a much larger crowd this year.

I'm sure the Riders average attendance this year is well over 33,000. Yes there will be years when the Riders stink and attendance will slip but who can predict how the Riders will do every year. 33,000 maybe the perfect size for both Regina & Winnipeg in this day and age. But as I eluded to in my previous posting who knows what the future will bring even ten years from. It would make sense I think to be prepared for that day where you may want a roof or a little large stadium even if it means spending a little extra money now.

Even if it means getting a Grey Cup every five years instead of ten and the potential for larger crowds year round the payoff could be there. Why not at least have that option available to you down the line. While I think IGF Field in Winnipeg is a very fine facility for today. I think Winnipeg could be sorry in ten years from now that they didn't set the bar a little higher than they could have.

The reality is in this day and age with HD TV and high ticket prices it is getting harder to draw people to stadiums for all professional sports not just the CFL. Unless you resort to black outs which everyone hates. Going forward you are going to have to offer fans a good viewing experience to get them into the stadiums. And that means a good venue to sit in especially for football where the season runs into the winter.

[Davidson]

Originally Posted by North_Regina_Boy

That for a Rider Playoff game is just deplorable. I mean what are all those people who call themselves "Rider Faithful" "Saskatchewan Hardened" doing? Oh wait cold eh... Humm I think I will just watch on TV.

I would of at least expected 35,000. That was the least attended game this year! And it was a PLAYOFF!

For shame Saskatchewan Roughriders fans FOR SHAME! Get your a$$es out and support your team from the stands not the couch.

I firmly believe that the CFL pre-season should start Mid-May and have the Grey Cup at the end of October. That would of made the weather nice enough to have a bunch of people out. BUT I know that interferes with MLB fans. But I think the CFL would draw more then.

I want to challenge the "fair-weather fan" comment a bit. I'm a Regina-born and raised guy but moved to Saskatoon a couple years ago for work. I've kept my Rider season tickets so I'm now I'm with the hundreds and hundreds of other fans on Hwy 11 every game day. I had NO idea the volume of out-of-town traffic until I started commuting to game from Saskatoon.

Ten times a year I make this trip to Regina for regular season games. Sadly I wasn't able to make it down for the playoff game due to medical reasons, as the cold weather would not allow me to be outside for 3 hours.

Of course I was glued to the TV for the semi-final game. IMHO blacking out that game would've just punished a fan like me who's made 10 round trips of 500 Kim's each this year to see the riders play. Plus black outs are very "old school" thinking - it's what caused an entire generation of football fans in so. Ontario to turn their backs on the CFL in favour of the NFL.

So I ask the question - if someone from Regina only went to the playoff game and I logged 5,000 km in total driving to games this year, who is truly the "fair weather fan"?

[North_Regina_Boy]

Originally Posted by Davidson

I want to challenge the "fair-weather fan" comment a bit. I'm a Regina-born and raised guy but moved to Saskatoon a couple years ago for work. I've kept my Rider season tickets so I'm now I'm with the hundreds and hundreds of other fans on Hwy 11 every game day. I had NO idea the volume of out-of-town traffic until I started commuting to game from Saskatoon.

Ten times a year I make this trip to Regina for regular season games. Sadly I wasn't able to make it down for the playoff game due to medical reasons, as the cold weather would not allow me to be outside for 3 hours.

Of course I was glued to the TV for the semi-final game. IMHO blacking out that game would've just punished a fan like me who's made 10 round trips of 500 Kim's each this year to see the riders play. Plus black outs are very "old school" thinking - it's what caused an entire generation of football fans in so. Ontario to turn their backs on the CFL in favour of the NFL.

So I ask the question - if someone from Regina only went to the playoff game and I logged 5,000 km in total driving to games this year, who is truly the "fair weather fan"?

Sorry to hear about your medical issues those are un-avoidable. And I am in the same 5,000 km / year boat as you. I just feel that people in Regina especially should of gone and filled up the stadium more. Some of the "out of town" people have some leeway here, but its the extra stands that Reginian's should of been filling up.

[Nathan]

You do realize that with the added capacity, you're basically asking 1/4 to 1/3 of the Regina adult population to show up right (if you are letting out-of-towners off the hook, and assuming you don't expect children to go in -20)? That'd be a pretty crazy expectation, especially considering that even in Regina (and Sask), not everyone is into sports/football.

I too wish it was a fuller stadium; people who could have gone, but didn't, definitely missed a good one, but we are kind of cranking expectations way out of wack now.