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  #4001  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 5:47 AM
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Hmm....
 
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Originally Posted by GORDBO View Post
I think Winnipeg will see a substantial drop next year. 3 reasons are at play.
1.The so-called honeymoon period for a new facility will lesson consierably in the second season
2.The " gong show" season we had has turned a lot of people off.
3.Ticket price increases ranging up to 26%. [NOT A MISPRINT]
Increase from this year? Or is that the increase from the old stadium? If the former... Yikes!
     
     
  #4002  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 6:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GORDBO View Post
I think Winnipeg will see a substantial drop next year. 3 reasons are at play.
1.The so-called honeymoon period for a new facility will lesson consierably in the second season
2.The " gong show" season we had has turned a lot of people off.
3.Ticket price increases ranging up to 26%. [NOT A MISPRINT]
What a shame... they have such a beautiful stadium.
     
     
  #4003  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 10:41 AM
isaidso isaidso is online now
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Originally Posted by GORDBO View Post
I think Winnipeg will see a substantial drop next year. 3 reasons are at play.
1.The so-called honeymoon period for a new facility will lesson consierably in the second season
2.The " gong show" season we had has turned a lot of people off.
3.Ticket price increases ranging up to 26%. [NOT A MISPRINT]
People may get turned off by a losing team, but wouldn't that suggest they'll return when they get better. They really don't have anywhere to go, but up. A 26% increase would translate into what price for a cheap seat?
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  #4004  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 12:08 PM
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People may get turned off by a losing team, but wouldn't that suggest they'll return when they get better. They really don't have anywhere to go, but up. A 26% increase would translate into what price for a cheap seat?
People get turned off by a losing team, yes. Will they come back with a winning team, not guaranteed. Otherwise explain the Argo's?



The CFL is doing quite well as a whole but it will be a long time before average attendance tops 28k.
     
     
  #4005  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 12:59 PM
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That's the trap that these new facilities will bring. The CFL always offers value and it's not like the product has changed, to just implement steep increases like that out of the blue will always piss a lot of fans off. It's not like the Jets whom have finite capacity and a hockey market, they can get away with charging some of the steepest prices in the league, the bombers can't get away with that. Hamilton can expect increases, not sure what Ottawa will do since they are brand new.

The CFL is a gate league. In poor performing markets in the NFL a lot of tickets are comp'd and given out for free, that culture does not exist in the CFL as teams expect to make cash of those those seats and not spin-off stuff like sponsorships or the reliance on TV money like down south.
     
     
  #4006  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 2:09 PM
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The CFL is a gate league.
That's beginning to change. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think TSN is paying $30-40M per year for the TV contract. While that is peanuts compared to NHL/NBA/MLB/NFL, keep in mind that there are only 8 (soon 9) teams. When divided among the teams, the TV contract pays for much of the expenses that teams incur.

In terms of how big the TV deal is relative to team expenses, I think the CFL is less 'gate-league' than the NHL. Obviously the NBA/MLB/NFL are in a different category altogether; they are very much TV-driven and cannot be characterized as a gate-league.
     
     
  #4007  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by GORDBO View Post
I think Winnipeg will see a substantial drop next year. 3 reasons are at play.
1.The so-called honeymoon period for a new facility will lesson consierably in the second season
2.The " gong show" season we had has turned a lot of people off.
3.Ticket price increases ranging up to 26%. [NOT A MISPRINT]
I hate to say it but I think you're right. Fans are clamoring for change, but so far very little has been delivered. The Eskimos wasted no time firing Kavis Reed, but Tim Burke remains in place in Winnipeg. The club doesn't seem to be moving in a different direction under Wade Miller either. This is rubbing the fans the wrong way big-time... I would not want to be an account manager for the Blue Bombers under these circumstances. At this rate, the only sellout crowd in 2014 will be when Rider fans help pack the place for the Banjo Bowl.

That said, there is some salvation on the horizon for the Bombers. First, things can't get any worse on the field so you'll see people buying in as the team improves. Second, the prospect of a Grey Cup game on the horizon will help move a few tickets and maybe get people excited again. But 2014 is going to be very much a rebuilding year... it will take a while to fix the damage from this season.
     
     
  #4008  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
In terms of how big the TV deal is relative to team expenses, I think the CFL is less 'gate-league' than the NHL. Obviously the NBA/MLB/NFL are in a different category altogether; they are very much TV-driven and cannot be characterized as a gate-league.
Good general article on the financial side to running a stadium/franchise - elly

Mitchell answers questions
Steve Milton Sep 01 2011 theSpec.com

At first blush, it all seems counterintuitive.

How can building new stands on the north side of Ivor Wynne Stadium not cost more than renovating the current ones?

And how can the significantly reduced seating capacity — from the original 25,000 seats to a reported 22,500 — not negatively impact the Hamilton Tiger-Cats’ bottom line?

Those were among the nagging questions after it was revealed last week that plans for the Pan Am Stadium on the current site of Ivor Wynne now call for the entire north stands to be torn down and rebuilt, instead of being refurbished atop the current infrastructure.

“This is absolutely and positively the most cost-efficient and responsible decision,” Ticat president Scott Mitchell answered Wednesday. “This isn’t a good thing, it’s a great thing.”

By agreeing to the reduced seat inventory, the Ticats made a major concession to Infrastructure Ontario to keep construction costs at the original estimate.

And, Mitchell says, potential builders will welcome the idea of constructing the north stands from the ground up, rather than trying to work around existing flaws, many of which are major.

“That’s 100 per cent accurate,” Mitchell said. “This creates cost certainty in the construction phase. You never know what you’re going to find out when you renovate. It might have involved all kinds of (capital) expense that wasn’t anticipated. And this prohibits the city from potentially having to spend tens of millions of dollars in maintenance of the north stands in the next few years.”

Additionally, having renovated north stands with uncomfortable bench seating and the same washroom and concession facilities as in the past would have meant that the Cats, and the city, were going to operate, in effect, two different facilities.

“What was clearly emerging was a have-versus-have-not scenario on the two sides of the stadium,” he said. “And that’s not conducive to effective cost management or a good in-stadium experience.”

The Tiger-Cats need to derive $10 million per year, or roughly $1 million per game, from ticket sales. Mitchell, bound by a confidentiality clause, would not comment on the exact capacity of the new stadium. But assuming the 22,500 figure is accurate, at an average $50 per ticket, the Cats will cover the $10 million as long as they sell out most games.

And a smaller stadium actually helps dramatically with that. Increasing the demand for tickets because there is a limited supply should translate into more season ticket holders than the current number, estimated to be slightly under 15,000. The Chicago Cubs and Boston Red Sox have always operated that way because of their old, small stadiums, but in 1990 the Baltimore Orioles became the first professional sports team to deliberately build a new stadium smaller than their old one. That forces fans to buy season’s tickets for fear that they won’t be able to get the tickets for games they really want. Then, weather and the competitive state of the team don’t affect sales as profoundly. The Montreal Alouettes had the same situation with the 20,000-seat Molson Stadium, and sold out every game for years.

The Ticats average between 23,000 and 24,000 spectators per game but about 20 per cent of them enjoy complimentary tickets, significantly lower than the figure from three years ago but still nearly double the industry standard. Tightening up on contra (tickets instead of cash, paid for services) and special group sales will allow the Cats to realize full income from a far greater percentage of the seats.

“So the biggest casualty in the capacity reduction will be those contra deals and big corporate buys,” Mitchell said.

The break-even point for most CFL teams is believed to be about $15 million in total annual income. With recent huge increases in TV viewership, broadcast revenues are expected to double or triple in the next couple of years, taking a big bite out of the $5 million income required beyond ticket sales. While the number of high-rent corporate boxes and club seats slated for the new stadium have not been revealed, there are going to be at least twice as many as there are now, adding more income potential to the Cats’ balance sheet.

“And clearly, we’ll have major increased revenue from concessions and merchandising because of an enhanced stadium experience,” Mitchell says. “It will also be a better experience for our corporate partners.”

The Ticats plan to cap individual season ticket sales at between 17,000 and 18,000. Season’s tickets prices for 2011 range from $14 per game in the end zone to $160 for the box seats at midfield. Those prices are expected to rise by two per cent next year.

But the team announced Wednesday that season’s tickets for 2012, the last season at Ivor Wynne, would cost the same as tickets for 2014, the first season in the new stadium.

“We wanted to nip in the bud all the talk that ‘I won’t be able to go to the new stadium because I can’t afford it,’” Mitchell explained.

Mitchell also said that the $1.3 million rent (close to being covered by selling the stadium naming rights - elly) the Cats will pay the city in the new stadium will be the highest in the CFL and that the more income the club makes, the more the city will make on their rake-off of the profit, over and above the rental agreement.

And, he says, the seating capacity on opening day doesn’t have to remain that way. He wouldn’t comment directly, but the configuration of the new stadium has to include room for enough temporary seating to reach the 40,000 minimum required to play host to a Grey Cup Game.

“Infrastructure Ontario will deliver a great stadium, but obviously there’d be nothing stopping us, as far as far as post-Pan Am Games go, from adding more seating ourselves.
     
     
  #4009  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 7:11 PM
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Progress pictures of Tim Hortons Field by HalfTheDistance at the Ticats.ca forums









     
     
  #4010  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 7:56 PM
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That thing just screams minor-league Mickey Mouse stadium to me
     
     
  #4011  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 8:00 PM
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Seeing the progress of it, I am actually more hopeful for it now than I was before.
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  #4012  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 8:09 PM
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That thing just screams minor-league Mickey Mouse stadium to me
Stadiums scream to you? I'd see a doctor about that.
     
     
  #4013  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 8:45 PM
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That thing just screams minor-league Mickey Mouse stadium to me
I was hoping for the best, but unfortunately I have to agree - for now. That last pic looks like some kind of medical clinic or discount carpet warehouse that's under construction, not the pro football stadium for a city of nearly one million people.
     
     
  #4014  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 9:30 PM
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If only they could have a stadium like this one:

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  #4015  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 10:07 PM
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Nearly one million people? Where? When? What?
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  #4016  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2013, 10:54 PM
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If only they could have a stadium like this one:

I'd even settle for the current crappy stadium they're building if this was the actual location of it... or anywhere in the downtown vicinity for that matter.

Instead, double-whammy... crap stadium, crap location.
     
     
  #4017  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2013, 1:16 AM
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Hamilton Lego field. Nobody should be surprised that its looking like a tin shed, that's what mishandled and botched last minute stadiums looking. The irony is that thing will need heavy renovations in a few years. BMO Fiels tried to go cheap and now they have to plunge 100million into the place to make it decent.

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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
That's beginning to change. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think TSN is paying $30-40M per year for the TV contract. While that is peanuts compared to NHL/NBA/MLB/NFL, keep in mind that there are only 8 (soon 9) teams. When divided among the teams, the TV contract pays for much of the expenses that teams incur.

In terms of how big the TV deal is relative to team expenses, I think the CFL is less 'gate-league' than the NHL. Obviously the NBA/MLB/NFL are in a different category altogether; they are very much TV-driven and cannot be characterized as a gate-league.
It's total for the package, not per year. TSN does not even pay the much for hockey. The numbers work out to million or two per team each year, to the riders that's peanuts.
     
     
  #4018  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2013, 1:26 AM
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
The irony is that thing will need heavy renovations in a few years.
Proof?

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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
It's total for the package, not per year. TSN does not even pay the much for hockey. The numbers work out to million or two per team each year, to the riders that's peanuts.
It's per year, when Ottawa comes in each team will get over 4 million a year. And one million ain't peanuts in the CFL. If you'd like a primer to CFL economics read Mitchell Answers Questions and judging by your post you need to.
     
     
  #4019  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2013, 2:04 AM
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Hmm....
 
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Proof?

It's per year, when Ottawa comes in each team will get over 4 million a year. And one million ain't peanuts in the CFL. If you'd like a primer to CFL economics read Mitchell Answers Questions and judging by your post you need to.
Osmo was overall quite off in his post... but yes... $1mill to the Riders, although a nice addition, is around a 3% increase to revenues (the Riders bring in over $30 mill per year), so it's not overly impactful. It's the Southern Ontario teams where $1-2 million more can really make a difference. Mitchell's analysis, although a good base starting-point, isn't a one size fits all for CFL teams; for example, the Riders have access to revenue streams the Ti-cats currently don't (large local sponsorships, big merchandise sales, etc). Hopefully this changes in the next while though (other teams moving up, not the Riders moving down).
     
     
  #4020  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2013, 2:19 AM
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$1mill to the Riders, although a nice addition, is around a 3% increase to revenues (the Riders bring in over $30 mill per year), so it's not overly impactful.
The TSN deal will deliver about $2.5 million in additional money to each team. The Roughriders had a profit of $4.5 million in 2012. Thus, the deal means a 55% increase in profits. That's hugely impactful.
     
     
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