Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[TransitFreak]

Originally Posted by dpogue

There's also a segment at Lougheed that is shared between the M-Line inbound and EG-Line inbound, but with the M-Line switching a few meters later. I guess if it becomes a problem, TransLink could use the TCH pocket and run single-track between there and Lougheed on the current outbound guideway.

(Aside: Do we have a single-letter designation for Evergreen Line? EG-Line? G-Line? E-Line2?)

The use of the pocket track after Braid was suggested by one of the regular forummers a while back, and it looks like you can clear that single tracking and back within 7 minutes, which would be the suggested interval I believe for the new Millenium line. Trunk service on Expo line would be 3 Expo, 1 Millenium during rush hour...the trains may need to slow down a bit between Columbia and Braid, or wait at the pocket track, and allow the train to clear if the spacing gets bunched up...

I prefer this actually, so that only switch movement is on the west side of Lougheed station. Although unconventional, I do like how the Millenium/Evergreen platforms are configured. When you get to the shared platform, you have a choice of going to Commercial-Broadway (Vancouver)the long way around (Millenium) or the direct way (Evergreen)...either way you'll get to Vancouver...lol...

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Thank you for your response.

That makes no sense to me. I don't understand why Evergreen trains bound for Douglas College Station don't simply depart from the existing "Lougheed outbound platform" and cross the westbound Millennium track immediately after departing Lougheed Station, with no need for a new "Lougheed side platform." One platform with all trains entering and exiting on the proper sides. Clean and simple.

Why would they build a completely new north platform and necessitate such a mess?

As other guys have mentioned, the 3rd platform was built back in 1999 for the phase 2 extension that was not built at the time.
Its now being completed and its [current] role is to prevent delays due to short-turning M-Line trains at the station.

I think it is also intended to allow inter-lining of Evergreen Line and Millennium Line trains without the "Lower Bay" problem (and also allows a routing of trains between Coquitlam and Columbia with a reversing movement within the assigned platform destinations).

A single centre platform like Bridgeport Station or Columbia Station would not allow a train to short-turn while maintaining frequencies of the interlined route.
Station dwell time (loading and unloading) is also a significant part of station operation, and having the third platform also increases loading capacity, even with added switching.

As noted by DKaz, a 3rd platform at Columbia would really be ideal, so that the interlined routes would have the branched service along the lesser used M-Line braching to Coquitlam and Columbia, rather than the highly used Expo Line branching to Lougheed and Surrey (and removing capacity from Surrey).

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The switches actually change fairly quickly. I think the reason it "takes a long time" is because the train control system won't permit the switch to change if it's in an occupancy block that's assigned to a train. That's not something that's going to change.

I think that much of the waiting time for switches will be hidden as station dwell time.

[Zassk]

The real head-scratcher is that, for Millenium trains to access the "extra" platform, they will have to cross (and therefore block) BOTH of the Evergreen tracks, everytime they enter AND leave the station. Basically, the third platform is on the wrong side of the station.

Even in the original 1999 envisioned configuration, it seems like we could have reduced switches and eliminated a basketweave by putting the third platform on the south side instead of the north side. I would love to go back in time and overhear the meetings where it was decided that this was the optimal configuration. Surely, a simple flyover would have been a superior solution than a basketweave - even for this three-platform design.

[TransitFreak]

Originally Posted by Zassk

The real head-scratcher is that, for Millenium trains to access the "extra" platform, they will have to cross (and therefore block) BOTH of the Evergreen tracks, everytime they enter AND leave the station. Basically, the third platform is on the wrong side of the station.

Millenium trains won't access the new platform in regular revenue service...they will affect inbound trains from Burquitlam only. Had a switch been installed prior just past the end of the photo that dpogue posted, it would have eliminated this interference completely. I'm still holding out hope that it could be retrofitted, but it seems unlikely now.

[officedweller]

Remember that the original station design was for a north-south oriented station (with just a centre platform) at the Lougheed Mall parking lot - but it was changed to be on public land and as a result, the orientation was changed to east-west.
That had the effect of eliminating / hampering a Coquitlam-Columbia routing of trains - perhaps that's why the 3rd platform was added (because a Coquitlam-Columbioa route would then require a reversing movement).

The south facing wye would have served the Livable Region Strategic Plan to foster commuting from Coquitlam to Surrey City Centre.

See page 129 of the report linked below (section 3.3 SkyTrain to SkyTrain Connectivity) for originally proposed Lougheed Station train movements with a N-S station:

Originally Posted by officedweller

FYI - M-Line background information here:
Note the "Connectivity Report" which identifies issues dealing with interlining.
Note, however, that the report dates back to when the system design
called for a north-south Lougheed station with a south facing wye
(to enable a one seat ride to Columbia from Coquitlam and one transfer to Surrey),
as opposed to the east facing wye that was actually built.

http://www.llbc.leg.bc.ca/public/Pubdocs/bcdocs/329621/SkyTrainReview.pdf

Map from the above report (showing a N-S Lougheed Station) - note that Grandview Station was subsequently deleted in its entirety and this shows the original VCC Station under Broadway rather than on the flats.



There's also another report that analyses the interlining in detail with different operational scenarios but I can't seem to find it.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4492482&postcount=849

[TransitJack]

The basket weaving nature of trains going towards Coquitlam could cause issues for arriving trains from all directions. Arriving trains reserve not only track, but switches so two arriving trains could conceivably need to reserve the same switch or switches in order to properly pull into the platform and dock.

Trains can go at high speed over switches when lined straight thru, but do need to slow when crossing over from one track to the other. Trains arriving into Lougheed will likely slow (as the WB trains do now) and this could delay the releasing of switch reservations and delay other trains needing the switches.

If trains have to cross over in front of each other it seems to me to make more sense to use the side platform for the M line trains turning back. Then use the existing centre platform for Evergreen Line trains travelling between VCC and Douglas.

The current plan is going to rely a lot on the timing of arriving trains and also puts a lot of emphasis on no switch failures.

[officedweller]

I think the current plan is for passenger convenience rather than technical efficiency - with a cross platform transfer in the morning rush hour.
Using the north platform for the short-turn means that everyone on that train transferring will have to do a down and up transfer.

[officedweller]

BTW - was looking at the wayfinding manual here:

http://www.partnershipsbc.ca/files-4/project-elrt-schedules/Schedule-4_Appendix-H.pdf

and saw that the "line colour" for Evergreen Line is shown, subject to review:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[officedweller]

The TBM is on its way - from the TranBC website dated Nov 5, 2013:

News Release here:

http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/2013/11/11...-headed-west-for-the-evergreen-line.html


The tunnel boring machine that will build the 2-km tunnel on the Evergreen Line is heading to BC from Ontario. It’s being shipped in pieces by truck and rail because of its size. The entire tunnel boring machine is 85 metres long and 10 metres in diameter.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/10697820254/in/set-72157632226282626/


The Evergreen Line’s massive tunnel boring machine is making its way to B.C. from the manufacturer in Ontario. The machine will build the two-kilometre tunnel that will run west of Barnet Highway in Port Moody to south of Kemsley Avenue in Coquitlam.
Due to its size and weight, the tunnel boring machine is being shipped in pieces from Ontario and will be assembled at a specially built launch site on the west side of the Barnet Highway in Port Moody. Assembly will take a couple of months, with tunnel construction expected to start in February 2014. The entire tunnel boring machine is 85 metres long and 10 metres in diameter.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/10697819904/in/set-72157632226282626/


This is the cutter head on the tunnel boring machine. The cutter head is 10 metres in diameter and weighs 130 tonnes. It’s the first piece of the tunnel boring machine and it rotates to break up the ground and a conveyor system moves the spoils to the back of the machine for disposal. Moving an average of eight metres a day, it will take approximately a year to build the two-kilometre tunnel.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/10697819904/in/set-72157632226282626/

[GeeCee]

More whining from Klahanie residents, blah blah. I've been trying to navigate through the comments on the article but the sorting is very strange.

http://www.news1130.com/2013/11/07/plans-for-elevated-evergreen-line-track-surprises-community/

The box push for Inlet Station happens this weekend and Barnet Highway will be closed all weekend starting at 9pm tonight.

[Prometheus]

It's a shame they didn't put a person in front of the cutter head before taking the above photograph. An average man is about 1.75 metres tall, which is little more than 1/6th the height of the cutter head. It would really have revealed just how massive this piece of machinery is.

[KPELLY]

I tried my best with paint!




Original Image
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/10698008163/sizes/o/in/set-72157632226282626/

From the TranBC website dated Nov 5, 2013

Edits are mine.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

It's a shame they didn't put a person in front of the cutter head before taking the above photograph. An average man is about 1.75 metres tall, which is little more than 1/6th the height of the cutter head. It would really have revealed just how massive this piece of machinery is.

That's a very short man.

[KPELLY]

Well 1.75m is 5ft9 so not really that short, but I made him ~6ft in the picture. This TBM is a beast! It would dwarf the canada line TBM.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Jebby

That's a very short man.

It's the average height of the adult male in Canada: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

It's the average height of the adult male in Canada: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world

Interesting. I knew the average US height was about 5'10" and always thought Canadians were a bit taller than that, but that might just be personal experience. Growing up in Vancouver I remember I was always one of the shortest in every class and I'm 179cm. Although come to think of it, most of the Asian guys in my school were shorter than that, so maybe immigration has kept the average height down a bit.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

More whining from Klahanie residents, blah blah. I've been trying to navigate through the comments on the article but the sorting is very strange.

http://www.news1130.com/2013/11/07/plans-for-elevated-evergreen-line-track-surprises-community/

The box push for Inlet Station happens this weekend and Barnet Highway will be closed all weekend starting at 9pm tonight.

From the article....

“All designs that we ever saw had the EGL running at grade. We became aware on October 2nd, during a chance meeting with EGL, who were there to talk to one of our stratas about landscaping and whatnot.

Talk about BS! I remember seeing an old PDF document and in somewhere, it states that there would be elevated portions if needed to cross the tracks. I can't for the life of me remember if the diagram did show it being elevated, but there would have been a fine print for sure (i.e. in an *).

If they were truly concerned, they should have said something in 2009 or 2010. But maybe they are to "busy" to attend those presentations while urban nerds like ourselves who may not even live in the area go out of the way just to see...

Besides, isn't this news a couple of weeks old already???

[GeeCee]

They probably went by the simplified map version and just assumed that it'd stay on track level. Not sure how they figured it would meet up with inlet station given the 6% grade limitation..

Inlet Station thing is going on now on the webcam, there's a lot of digging going on at the moment.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

They probably went by the simplified map version and just assumed that it'd stay on track level. Not sure how they figured it would meet up with inlet station given the 6% grade limitation..

Inlet Station thing is going on now on the webcam, there's a lot of digging going on at the moment.

This map or something very similar to it could have been in the earlier documents.



While it doesn't show any elevated sections on the contested area, it did have that fine print regarding the portion being ground level with the exception if required to cross existing roads, CPR tracks and creeks. If such a map existed in 2009 and 2010 (and I have a feeling it has), then its really the onus of the Klahanie Residents to ask questions during the public consultation.

It may have been asked, for all we know someone in this forum may have went to the events and asked but maybe didn't post (or did but its buried), and given the unreliability of renderings (cough...Lougheed Station guideways), I would think even if there was such a rendering, it would always be subject to change.

At the end of the day, its really the Klahanie's residents fault for not asking. The information is there for all to see, the phone numbers, email, and Evergreen Line office has been there, and no one bothered to ask? ANd they only found out in passing in October 2? Did they really expect the CP trains, WCE and Skytrain to magically cross each other at ground level?

Those Klahanie people, with their negligence and inability to assess their own surroundings until too late, they don't really deserve to be heard.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Interesting. I knew the average US height was about 5'10" and always thought Canadians were a bit taller than that, but that might just be personal experience. Growing up in Vancouver I remember I was always one of the shortest in every class and I'm 179cm. Although come to think of it, most of the Asian guys in my school were shorter than that, so maybe immigration has kept the average height down a bit.

Average male height is 174 cm so he depicted it correctly in the first place. You are a full standard deviation above average and never knew it. :-)