YEG - Edmonton Int Airport - Page 457

EdmTrekker · #**9121** Posted **Oct 28, 2013, 12:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

They have two possible sites in mind, but the land owner of the preferred one wants to see Parkland up and running unmolested for a couple of years and a strong signal that the federal government will meat puppet the locals if they were to try to shut them down by expropriation.

Expropriation....only a court case may reveal what is possible. Time for the Province to step in. I think the Capital Region Board needs to flex some muscle.

cyeg66 · #**9122** Posted **Oct 28, 2013, 12:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Almost every town near Calgary has an airport from the 2nd world war.

...which are in disrepair and see no more use/traffic.

EdmTrekker · #**9123** Posted **Oct 28, 2013, 12:58 AM**

I have a problem with airports popping up simply because someone wants one and Transport Canada appears to be without a master. Let's hope that the issue is addressed in Ottawa by reigning in Transport Canada. That seems easy enough for Mr. Harper to do and urban and suburban communities will be happy to see restraint on TC.

Policy Wonk · #**9124** Posted **Oct 28, 2013, 2:01 AM**

The federal government has already taken this to the supreme court and won, their jurisdiction is uncontested. The issue is how aggressively Ottawa will intervene when municipalities make a nuisance of themselves to airport operators.

The supreme court ruling hasn't really been codified into any real regulations yet though, when the Aeronautics Act was last revised the only private airfields in the country with any substance were in support of mining operations, in the middle of nowhere and uncontroversial.

The practical problem is that the ERAA doesn't seem terribly interested in serving this market. Under their ownership they completely failed to deliver at Villeneuve, they divested themselves of Cooking Lake and championed closing the City Centre Airport.

The Medevac improvements at Villeneuve were funded by the province and don't really address any of the day to day issues there.

If the ERAA doesn't want to do it, somebody else will and the Supreme Court opened the door wide open.

cyeg66 · #**9125** Posted **Oct 28, 2013, 2:26 AM**

^No argument from me re: ERAA's mismanagement of their aerodrome portfolio. Poor record indeed.

EdmTrekker · #**9126** Posted **Oct 28, 2013, 3:35 AM**

We know the exec and some Board members at ERAA read the airport threads on this and C2E. I wonder what their thoughts are having read what Policywonk and other posters on here have said. I guess it's time to have a guest thread on c2e with the Chair of ERAA to respond to some questions and some allegations?

Rocket252 · #**9127** Posted **Oct 28, 2013, 2:29 PM**

Any update on when the new proposed DFW-YEG route may be announced?

Policy Wonk · #**9128** Posted **Oct 28, 2013, 4:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

We know the exec and some Board members at ERAA read the airport threads on this and C2E. I wonder what their thoughts are having read what Policywonk and other posters on here have said. I guess it's time to have a guest thread on c2e with the Chair of ERAA to respond to some questions and some allegations?

It isn't really a nuanced issue,

The City Centre Airport closes in a month and the ERAA beat the drums harder than anyone for this.
They abandoned Cooking Lake.
The infrastructure issues at Villeneuve appear further from a resolution than ever before.

kcantor · #**9129** Posted **Oct 28, 2013, 5:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

It isn't really a nuanced issue,

The City Centre Airport closes in a month and the ERAA beat the drums harder than anyone for this.
They abandoned Cooking Lake.
The infrastructure issues at Villeneuve appear further from a resolution than ever before.

emphasis added...

and whether the emphasis added is true or not, even if it is villeneuve would still appear to be further ahead than parkland or anything else that has been publicly disclosed...

i have long said that eraa/eia dropped the ball with villeneuve but it would certainly still seem to be their ball to pick up and run with and it would be good for ga - and others including eraa/eia - in the region when they finally do so.

because despite Villeneuve's "infrastructure issues", they still have more infrastructure in place to build upon than anyone else.

Policy Wonk · #**9130** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 4:41 AM**

I don't disagree with any of that, but without a major attitude adjustment on the part of the ERAA or a moment of pragmatism on the part of the Capital Region Board what Villeneuve might be is firmly in the realm of the theoretical.

rapid_business · #**9131** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 3:12 PM**

Isn't the infrastructure upgrades at Villeneuve largely tied to their proposed massive residential expansion that was shot down by CRB? Is that why it is at a stand still?

kcantor · #**9132** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 4:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

I don't disagree with any of that, but without a major attitude adjustment on the part of the ERAA or a moment of pragmatism on the part of the Capital Region Board what Villeneuve might be is firmly in the realm of the theoretical.

true enough - but only as far as it goes.

what doesn't exist today at villeneuve may be in the realm of the theoretical but those things are no more in the realm of the theoretical than anything else that doesn't actually exist today including "another project much more ambitious than Parkland Airport that isn't yet public"... and what does exist today at villeneuve is not in the realm of the theoretical and has the potential of being a much more solid foundation for what should happen for ga in the region (whether at villeneuve or elsewhere).

Coldrsx · #**9133** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 6:57 PM**

They sure are moving a ton of dirt south of airport road these days... anyone seen any renderings of the proposed outlet mall? Hearing it is massive.

EdmTrekker · #**9134** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 7:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

They sure are moving a ton of dirt south of airport road these days... anyone seen any renderings of the proposed outlet mall? Hearing it is massive.

Cool. Is Qualico developing this for EIA or someone else? And is this EIA land? Long long long term lease? I do recall seeing some prelim plans posted a few months back or more.

Coldrsx · #**9135** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 7:07 PM**

Ivanhoe I believe.

dansk · #**9136** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 7:32 PM**

Earlier renderings from May via http://www.airport-world.com/publications/all-online-articles/item/2582-outlet-retail

SHOFEAR · #**9137** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 7:36 PM**

Based on what I saw this summer on my weekly trips through the area, it looks like a significant portion of that land was serviced. I'd assume that we will start to see some buildings start construction this winter and surface completion in the spring. I'd assume that YEG doesn't need to abide by any (leduc county) regulations when it comes to building permits requiring paved access or curbs they can start building whenever.

Coldrsx · #**9138** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 7:38 PM**

^^yeah, that....

Policy Wonk · #**9139** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rapid_business

Isn't the infrastructure upgrades at Villeneuve largely tied to their proposed massive residential expansion that was shot down by CRB? Is that why it is at a stand still?

Yes, there is no plausible business case for Sturgeon County to take the lead otherwise without a cross-subsidy from other development. In light of the closure of City Centre the CRB should have made a concession here.

Policy Wonk · #**9140** Posted **Oct 29, 2013, 8:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnklc

true enough - but only as far as it goes.

what doesn't exist today at villeneuve may be in the realm of the theoretical but those things are no more in the realm of the theoretical than anything else that doesn't actually exist today including "another project much more ambitious than Parkland Airport that isn't yet public"... and what does exist today at villeneuve is not in the realm of the theoretical and has the potential of being a much more solid foundation for what should happen for ga in the region (whether at villeneuve or elsewhere).

If you're the freaks and geeks at Parkland you have millions tied up in that project and a huge inventive to make it work. If you're the ERAA Villeneuve is a money losing distraction full of petulant whiners.

The ERAA has controlled Villeneuve since 2000 and has been actively trying to shut down City Centre since 2004. If making Villeneuve a workable secondary airport didn't figure into that, what is it going to take?

A group building out of sheer survival or a profit making enterprise has a whole lot more riding on their endeavour than the ERAA has riding on Villeneuve.