Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[osmo]

Originally Posted by thurmas

There is no way in hell Tim Horton's Field will be ready for the 2014 season in Hamilton. To me the move to BMO field makes the most sense for the long term survival of the Argos. BMO field or Exhibition stadium 2.0 or whatever you want to call it keeps the Argos downtown, brings them back to where they enjoyed their best years at the box office ie:1959 to 1983. Gives them the perfect stadium size to create atmosphere and demand for tickets in the 30,000 seat range and the possibility of having MLSE own them giving them unlimited resources which they have not had since the late 70's early 80's. Rogers Centre would kill the Argos in the long term and who knows if the Jays are going with natural grass in a few years they might do a full on renovation of the stadium to make it a baseball only facility because it will soon be close to a 30 year old ballpark that frankly could already use a facelift to make it feel more like a baseball park and not an all year events facility.

The Argos are a toy for sponsors and TSN if MLSE takes them on. Anybody thinking that moving to BMO will be a revival is delusional. Only soccer fans are in love with that tin shed by the lake, renos will help but people have to understand nobody downtown gives a crap about the Argos. They could play in a stadium played in gold and sill loose money. Their fan base is in the suburbs and football being a "attraction" based sport with few home games a year to draw as many people as you can, if there are crazed Argo fans downtown they will make the drive up to watch.

The irony that MLSE will piss off their hardcore soccer base which actually makes them a ton of cash to make happy the Argos that will loose cash just dosn't make sense. It will be interesting to see what happens, I'm in the camp the Argos need to go where their core fans are which is Vaughn which is eager to create a identity for itself.

The suburbs aren't a bad thing for football of its positioned right. Foxboro manages fine, Landover is poorly connected by manage fine, Orchard Park manages fine, the Texans play on the near edge of the City as do the Eagles on Philly's south side. Football is a attraction sport that people will travel for. It's not uncommon for fans to drive 3-5 hours for a Rider game in Sask.

Put the Argos some place that wants them an give them game days on the weekends that work with the families schedule. The mid-week after work thing they were forced to do at Rogers never helped them. They can own Saturdays outside of Hockey if they play it right.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

The finished stadium isn't much more

I also don't think it'll be ready for the start of regular season. I think it'll be delayed a bit with normal winter weather, but I'm anticipating a horrible winter (gut feeling) which will delay it even more.

[FutureSmith]

Originally Posted by osmo

Only soccer fans are in love with that tin shed by the lake, renos will help but people have to understand nobody downtown gives a crap about the Argos. They could play in a stadium played in gold and sill loose money.

To be fair, anyone building an entire stadium out of gold is going to lose money. I don't care how many years you're in business, you will never recoup those construction costs!

[The Fisher Account]

I think Ottawa's frankenstein old/new/renovated stadium looks like trash. Why didn't they tear down everything and build something uniform from scratch?

[king10]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

I think Ottawa's frankenstein old/new/renovated stadium looks like trash. Why didn't they tear down everything and build something uniform from scratch?

really? try a 10 000 seat hockey arena under the original grandstand

[FutureSmith]

Just added to the Redblacks website the other day. Not too detailed, but some on this forum were inquiring about a "virtual venue" pic.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by osmo

sill loose money.
will loose cash

/twitch

[esquire]

Originally Posted by FutureSmith

Just added to the Redblacks website the other day. Not too detailed, but some on this forum were inquiring about a "virtual venue" pic.

Nice!

You can see the influence that TV viewership has on stadium design... all of the new or renovated stadiums have seating past the goal lines so as to provide a good TV backdrop, and Ottawa is no different.

You can also clearly see how the south stands are designed with seamless expansion in mind.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

/twitch

Is that what the kids say today meaning can't spell When I was growing up loose money and loose cash was a good thing.

[elly63]

All this renewed talk about Argos going to BMO is very interesting. To me it would only make sense if MLSE was buying the Argos because why would the Argos go from being second class citizens in one building to playing second fiddle in another, yet smaller building.

MLSE said they could make money on the Argos, two years ago (before the new TV contract) but at that time a million/year wasn't enough. My opinion, but to me, this now says the Argos aren't such a bad property (in the GTA) as some are led to believe. This is a very intriguing puzzle if MLSE buys the Argos, how can they kill something they own. It would make them look bad to the NFL and the bean counters (who control MLSE above all) want it to be profitable. Very, very interesting.

If I was Braley and I was to sell, I would try to get trademark and name rights to revert back from MLSE if they (MLSE) were to sell. That would help keep them from killing it, like Horn Chen in Ottawa.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by elly63

All this renewed talk about Argos going to BMO is very interesting. To me it would only make sense if MLSE was buying the Argos because why would the Argos go from being second class citizens in one building to playing second fiddle in another, yet smaller building.

MLSE said they could make money on the Argos, two years ago (before the new TV contract) but at that time a million/year wasn't enough. My opinion, but to me, this now says the Argos aren't such a bad property (in the GTA) as some are led to believe. This is a very intriguing puzzle if MLSE buys the Argos, how can they kill something they own. It would make them look bad to the NFL and the bean counters (who control MLSE above all) want it to be profitable. Very, very interesting.

If I was Braley and I was to sell, I would try to get trademark and name rights to revert back from MLSE if they (MLSE) were to sell. That would help keep them from killing it, like Horn Chen in Ottawa.

This is sorta where I can't find where it makes sense for MLSE to jump in. It only makes sense if long term they want something bigger like a NFL franchise and are being benevolent in taking the Argos and propping them up, rebranding them as a family thing like the Marlies are to the corporate high end experience the Leafs are.

Only catch is the NFL bars corporation from owning teams, only private owners are allowed. So MLSE couldn't own a team if it wanted too. It would only be Welfare by TSN whom owns 37% of MLSE to buy the Argos. They can spin some content off it for radio but they could already do this now without owning the team. The only way it makes sense for MLSE is to renovate BMO and let somebody else buy the Argos and then pay them rent to play there, how is would it make sense??

It's hard to figure out what exactly their rationale is. Maybe it's all just talk from the TSN side to create a artificial demand for perspective buyers. If MLSE sees value in it then maybe other groups whom were on the fence will see value in the Argos also.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by osmo

This is sorta where I can't find where it makes sense for MLSE to jump in. It only makes sense if long term they want something bigger like a NFL franchise and are being benevolent in taking the Argos and propping them up, rebranding them as a family thing like the Marlies are to the corporate high end experience the Leafs are.

Only catch is the NFL bars corporation from owning teams, only private owners are allowed. So MLSE couldn't own a team if it wanted too. It would only be Welfare by TSN whom owns 37% of MLSE to buy the Argos. They can spin some content off it for radio but they could already do this now without owning the team. The only way it makes sense for MLSE is to renovate BMO and let somebody else buy the Argos and then pay them rent to play there, how is would it make sense??

It's hard to figure out what exactly their rationale is. Maybe it's all just talk from the TSN side to create a artificial demand for perspective buyers. If MLSE sees value in it then maybe other groups whom were on the fence will see value in the Argos also.

I believe MLSE said a while ago that they could make about a mill a year off of the Argos. With the new TV deal, there's an immediate boost and if the Argos were to move into BMO, it would make more use of the stadium they manage and concession sales would also count toward the Argos instead of Rogers, as happens now. It also gives them another team to add to their stable of brands.

It really only doesn't make sense for those that don't think the CFL has value, which granted, is a fair number of people. And as you mention, MLSE will never be allowed to own an NFL team without a rule change, not to mention the other cities than are further up the line than Toronto. Whether some would like to admit it or not, the CFL really is on an upward progression right now and the Argos are probably the team with the most depressed value, so there coul be a hefty gain in value with the right purchaser (i.e. someone with more clout in the market).

MLSE might also get some extra funds for a stadium renovation/expansion if the Argos are included, and companies generally don't turn that away.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by FutureSmith

Just added to the Redblacks website the other day. Not too detailed, but some on this forum were inquiring about a "virtual venue" pic.

Looks swell

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by king10

really? try a 10 000 seat hockey arena under the original grandstand

Should have rebuilt the facility separate. Looks super tacky.

[WhipperSnapper]

The City of Toronto owns BMO field and receives the rent while pays MLSE a management fee. MLSE are very shrewd operators. They made a $20 million dollar profit buying and reselling the naming rights to BM O. No doubt they advised how much the naming rights should be worth before buying them. They is no way they will alone pay the estimated $100 million to expand the stadium. I would be shocked if the CNE board wouldn't be asked to put up more than half for this capital improvement.

If the Argos are viable, a purposed built stadium should be built, We are a largge city. I see little reason for sharing venues which always leads to compromises to make things work.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by esquire

Nice!

You can see the influence that TV viewership has on stadium design... all of the new or renovated stadiums have seating past the goal lines so as to provide a good TV backdrop, and Ottawa is no different.

You can also clearly see how the south stands are designed with seamless expansion in mind.

Good points.

When the stadium is full I don't think that mix of old and new will matter that much either. It's very noticeable from the drawings (though personally I have no issue with it), but there's a sense of variety given the other developments at Lansdowne.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Should have rebuilt the facility separate. Looks super tacky.

And you have 50 million lose (sic) change to throw around?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

When the stadium is full I don't think that mix of old and new will matter that much either. It's very noticeable from the drawings (though personally I have no issue with it), but there's a sense of variety given the other developments at Lansdowne.

I'm trying to figure out which stand the TV cameras will be pointing towards. I'm thinking it will be the north stand (refurbished) which would be unfortunate.

[elly63]

Tim Hortons Field Hamilton September 26/2013



October 25/2013

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Should have rebuilt the facility separate. Looks super tacky.

I find the outside looks OK but it's on the inside that the Civic Centre is really weird with that small section with only a handful of rows.

When I used to go there I'd imagine it going as a full bowl all the way around at the same height as the rest of the arena, which actually would have made it pretty big - probably at least 16,000 seats or maybe more.