Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[elly63]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

In the end, it really doesn't matter so long as the purpose of the building is met.

Amen

[elly63]

Old article but subject should resurface soon - elly

Lansdowne naming rights to encompass entire commercial section, Greenberg says
Only public park will likely keep ‘Lansdowne’ name
David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen September 27, 2012

OTTAWA — The naming rights at Lansdowne Park will be worth so much in part because the Lansdowne name will be replaced completely on the part of the site controlled by Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group, says the group’s lead partner, Roger Greenberg.

He also promised that the public will know at least a few more of the expected retail tenants before city councillors vote on the project next Tuesday.

As for the naming rights, “we’re talking about the stadium, the arena and the retail area,” Greenberg said Thursday, explaining how the estimated value of the rights rose from about $15.8 million in February to $50.2 million in a new city report this week. A big sponsor will have the opportunity to put its name on the entire section of the park that faces Bank Street in the Glebe and extends along Holmwood Avenue.

The Lansdowne name will stay with the city and the part of the site it controls — the Aberdeen Pavilion, the Horticulture Building and the urban park planned for the southeast quadrant of the property. No naming rights to those elements of the project will be for sale, city manager Kent Kirkpatrick said Thursday.

Greenberg’s group and the city are partners in the half-billion-dollar plan to redevelop the crumbling old fairground, which has been controversial partly because it means giving OSEG control over a big part of what has for decades been a publicly owned site. The city is investing hundreds of millions into refurbishing Frank Clair Stadium and the Civic Centre rink beneath it, building a parking garage, repairing the historic buildings and establishing the new parkland; OSEG is building retail, commercial and residential buildings on its section and forming pro football and soccer teams to join the existing Ottawa 67’s hockey franchise. The two sides will split the profits for decades.

That profit includes whatever OSEG brings in from the naming rights, Greenberg is at pains to point out. “We all benefit from OSEG selling the naming rights for the most we possibly can.”

And he thinks the $50-million estimate is conservative, since it’s stretched out over 30 years and works out to barely $1 million a year before inflation is factored in. Scotiabank paid a bit more than $1 million a year for the rights to Scotiabank Place, Greenberg said, which gets about 1.3 million visitors a year, mostly for hockey games and concerts, and he expects Lansdowne to draw several times that. “We have so many elements together, from all the different sports, football, soccer, hockey, to the shopping to concerts to everything else.”

“What a name sponsor is looking for is what exposure they’re going to get,” he said. Even though OSEG won’t be selling the naming rights to the public section of the site, visitors will still pass through the commercial part, whether it’s to get to skate on the Rideau Canal in the winter or to a music festival in the summer. It’s part of the synergy that’s supposed to make the redevelopment work, with the public and private sections reinforcing each other.

“They will see ‘Scotia Place,’ or whatever it’s going to be, whenever they come through,” he said. “That’s exposure.”

More money will come from “junior partners” who buy advertising, Greenberg pointed out.

Rest of article

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I can't believe the RedBlacks haven't even created a Virtual Venue for this stadium yet.

In fact, I can't believe how lacklustre the entire marketing campaign around this new stadium has been. High-quality, detailed renders have been extremely hard to come by, especially shots of concourses, luxury suites, lounges, etc., if any such exist.

The Redblacks should have a well-designed page with a comprehensive number of high-quality, detailed renders and fly-through videos, depicting the beauty, the grandeur and the excitement awaiting fans at the new stadium.

Compare the marketing efforts of the RedBlacks to those of the Tiger-Cats regarding their respective new stadiums. The RedBlacks need to raise their game.

Tks to mikem at ticats.ca for headsup

I don't recall seeing this version of THF posted here, exactly what Prometheus is talking about. (Edit: Just did a search, Frankie beat me to it, and SteelTown after him I thought that was a different video I guess. Oh well, it's good enough to look back to again and illustrate the point)

Tim Hortons Field Video

A poster here lamented the lack of Ottawa info, they can blame the Ottawa folk because if it was out there it would be posted here.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by elly63

A poster here lamented the lack of Ottawa info, they can blame the Ottawa folk because if it was out there it would be posted here.

Speaking of which...

Lansdowne Legacy Project Continues Historical Documentation in Ottawa
Front Page Media Group October 1/2013

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

That said, I don't think the use of steel vs. concrete has anything to do with cheaping out, nor do I think it has anything to do with Hamilton's "steel city" status as others have mentioned. It's just the design that was chosen.

Lots of buildings have a steel structure, and lots have a concrete structure. In the end, it really doesn't matter so long as the purpose of the building is met.

I don't see steel as cheapening out either, but do look for buildings to offer more than just functionality. A Skoda is functional, but it would be a sad day if cars never strove to be anything more than a Skoda.

I've accepted that this is the design that's been chosen for Hamilton, but will always counter if someone argues that functionality alone is all that matters.

[esquire]

I really like the way Ottawa's complex is coming together. The commercial component looks interesting, and the new grandstand for the stadium has a really graceful curve that should look great once the wood canopy is built. I still think the stadium's capacity could have been enlarged a bit... 22,500 is pretty small considering that the Rough Riders and Renegades demonstrated the ability to attract average attendances higher than that in all but their darkest days (i.e., the ones in which the Gliebermans or Horn Chen were involved). I would have expected around 27,000.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I don't see steel as cheapening out either, but do look for buildings to offer more than just functionality. A Skoda is functional, but it would be a sad day if cars never strove to be anything more than a Skoda.

I've accepted that this is the design that's been chosen for Hamilton, but will always counter if someone argues that functionality alone is all that matters.

I didn't mean to refer to a building's form vs. its function. I was just referring to the role of steel vs. concrete in comprising the structure, allowing the building to exist and fulfill its purpose.

I agree with you - for many buildings, design shouldn't just reflect function. Appearance and aesthetics do matter. (and choice of material can certainly affect what forms are possible)

I haven't seen many stadiums I have considered beautiful, but there are some interesting ones and we're not getting that in Hamilton. I don't mind the design, but more effort and creativity should have gone into the architectural form of THF, even given the rather limited budget. I understand why that didn't happen, though it seems like it will be great functionally. But the best we can hope for from its architecture is not ugly and that's a shame.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by esquire

I really like the way Ottawa's complex is coming together. The commercial component looks interesting, and the new grandstand for the stadium has a really graceful curve that should look great once the wood canopy is built. I still think the stadium's capacity could have been enlarged a bit... 22,500 is pretty small considering that the Rough Riders and Renegades demonstrated the ability to attract average attendances higher than that in all but their darkest days (i.e., the ones in which the Gliebermans or Horn Chen were involved). I would have expected around 27,000.

Lots of room for end zone stands if the need arises. We could probably get another 5k in permanent end zone seating or more for large one-time events (Grey Cup etc.).

[elly63]

Fans would like to see Argos in new home
Steve Buffery, Toronto Sun October 14, 2013

GUELPH - There was more atmosphere at the University of Guelph’s Alumni Stadium on Monday afternoon with 13,362 fans in the stands than there generally is when 25,000 show up at the Rogers Centre for a Toronto Argonauts game.

“This is what CFL football is all about,” said Mississauga’s Scott Ross, whose family has had Argos season tickets since 1971.

Ross, decked out in double blue from his hat to his boots, stood in the sunshine sucking back a cold one in a parking lot just across the street from Alumni Stadium on Sunday afternoon with a group of Box J Boys, the Hamilton Tiger-Cats notoriously zealous fan club.

It was about an hour before the Argos-Ticats game and everybody was in a great mood, a perfect afternoon for football — sunshine, cozy stadium, coolers full of cold beverages, a live band playing nearby.

And though the Argos were defeated 24-18 by their Eastern Division rivals, Ross said his hope is for every Argos game to have the atmosphere like the one enjoyed Thanksgiving Day in Guelph.

Alumni Stadium has been the site for the Ticats home games this season with the club’s new stadium currently being built on the site of the old Ivor Wynne in Hamilton.

The Argos, meanwhile, continue to play out of the cavernous Rogers Centre where, even when they get a crowd of 20,000 to 25,000, it’s Deadsville. The place is too big and the fans too spread out. Ross said a place like Alumni — with no fancy bells and whistles, just open air football in a cozy stadium — would be perfect for Argos’ games (though with perhaps about 10,000 more seats).

And it doesn’t have to be in downtown Toronto either, he added. In fact, it would probably better if they didn’t play downtown Ross said.

“I live in Mississauga, so for me to get downtown for a game is difficult,” said Ross. “Especially this year because the schedule has been horrible. Tuesday night games? Most of the fans who go to Argo games are from the 905 area code, so it’s hard to get downtown after a work day. It would be nice to have the stadium somewhere else, a place the team actually owns, that way they can set the schedule, either Saturday afternoon or Saturday nights, and then you can tailgate.”

Tailgating, of course, is almost impossible anywhere near the Rogers Centre. But at the old Ivor Wynne Stadium, and at Alumni Stadium, there’s a live-and-let-live attitude.

Certainly Ross and his Box J Boys buds weren’t hassled as they lubricated themselves pre-game — another example of why it’s absolutely crucial for the Argos to get out of Rogers Centre and find another place to play.

The Rogers Centre can suck the life out of a football game, even with north of 20,000 fans in attendance. The atmosphere at Alumni on Monday was perfect for CFL football in southern Ontario.

“You get arrested outside the Rogers Centre if you do that,” said Ross, gesturing towards his Ticats buddy, Greg Nooner, who enjoyed a libation with fellow Ticat fanatic Kerry Braley. “If they could put a stadium at a place like Woodbine, somewhere where you have parking like this, and encourage this kind of stuff, absolutely, people would enjoy it so much more.”

The Argos recently signed a lease extension with the Rogers Centre, though they can opt out if a new venue opportunity opens up. That can’t happen soon enough for fans like Ross, whose outfit including a number of homemade buttons, many of the X-rated variety, including one suggesting a way Ticats’ chief fan Pigskin Pete could earn some extra money.

His buttons, though, didn’t seem to bother any of the Box J Boys, known for their kilts and black and gold garb.

“Nobody’s uptight here,” said Nooner. “Though the Argos fans may be after the game.”

He was right about that.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

Lots of room for end zone stands if the need arises. We could probably get another 5k in permanent end zone seating or more for large one-time events (Grey Cup etc.).

It better be able to fit much more than just another 5k spectators; Grey Cups are basically minimum 40k... I believe Hamilton's plans allow extra seating to total 40k for special events.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Nathan

It better be able to fit much more than just another 5k spectators; Grey Cups are basically minimum 40k... I believe Hamilton's plans allow extra seating to total 40k for special events.

They're supposed to. The model/pics for the expanded configuration didn't look like it would fit that many, but they should be able to add larger stands than what was shown given the space available at each end.
(the THF website says "capacity will be expandable to a minimum of 35,000 seats for major events like Grey Cup Championships or suitable concerts" but I've heard the team mention 40k as well)




Re: Ottawa, does anyone know how many temp seats they will be able to add? I imagine they're going to be fairly limited on the Bank St. side with that condo tower there, but there should be room to build a big temporary grandstand on the east, shouldn't there?

The 2004 Grey Cup was a lot of fun. More than 51,000 fans attended, but it took large stands at both ends to do that, and the capacity of the permanent seating was about 30k back then. I'd love to go back to Ottawa for a Grey Cup again.

[Chadillaccc]

The Western Canada University Womens Rugby Championships - victory to University of Alberta, with University of Calgary in 2nd place. I believe a player from the University of British Columbia got MVP!


Lethbridge Civic Stadium, about 1000 people


Playing the championship game between University of Alberta and University of Calgary


The 4 Championship teams accepting their individual awards - from left to right it is University of Calgary - University of British Columbia - University of Alberta - University of Lethbridge


The champion team University of Alberta accepting their flag and trophy

By Chadillaccc, on Flickr

[Coldrsx]

Downtown Arena - Edmonton

Development Permit for the arena was officially submitted last Friday.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I didn't mean to refer to a building's form vs. its function. I was just referring to the role of steel vs. concrete in comprising the structure, allowing the building to exist and fulfill its purpose.

I agree with you - for many buildings, design shouldn't just reflect function. Appearance and aesthetics do matter. (and choice of material can certainly affect what forms are possible)

I haven't seen many stadiums I have considered beautiful, but there are some interesting ones and we're not getting that in Hamilton. I don't mind the design, but more effort and creativity should have gone into the architectural form of THF, even given the rather limited budget. I understand why that didn't happen, though it seems like it will be great functionally. But the best we can hope for from its architecture is not ugly and that's a shame.

Ok, my mistake.

After BC Place, IG Field, and that conceptual renderings that were released for Regina it seemed that franchises were stepping up their game. I too understand the limitations in Hamilton, but it was a set back in many people's eyes.

It is what it is and I'm trying to focus on the positives. Hamilton is getting a new stadium, it's being re-oriented north-south, and there's no athletics track. From a design point of view I'm disappointed, but if the Ti-Cats can prosper there I'll be happy as a clam.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by esquire

I really like the way Ottawa's complex is coming together. The commercial component looks interesting, and the new grandstand for the stadium has a really graceful curve that should look great once the wood canopy is built. I still think the stadium's capacity could have been enlarged a bit... 22,500 is pretty small considering that the Rough Riders and Renegades demonstrated the ability to attract average attendances higher than that in all but their darkest days (i.e., the ones in which the Gliebermans or Horn Chen were involved). I would have expected around 27,000.

I agree with all of that, but if you look at an aerial view of the site it allows for quite a significant enlargement. If in 20-30 years Ottawa proves that it needs a stadium seating 30,000 or even 40,000 it's possible. Look how wide the north stands are.

One could eventually demolish the north stands and build a mirror image of the south stands flush up against the street basically where the photo starts on the left. That leaves tons of space between each of the new stands. I'm guessing one could build a sunken bowl seating 20,000 between the 2 stands and still leave enough space for the football field. You'd end up with a stadium that seats roughly 40,000 and still have space at the ends to add more seats for big events.

It's hard to imagine Ottawa needing that many, but if football interest comes back with a vengeance it's comforting to know that there's room to do it. It's not hemmed in.

[The_Architect]

The original West Harbour location and design were by far the best, but Bob Young and Hamilton City Council screwed the pooch and lost it, as well as the privilege to host the athletics competition.

They would have had a great design like the others but noooopee.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Ok, my mistake.

After BC Place, IG Field, and that conceptual renderings that were released for Regina it seemed that franchises were stepping up their game. I too understand the limitations in Hamilton, but it was a set back in many people's eyes.

It is what it is and I'm trying to focus on the positives. Hamilton is getting a new stadium, it's being re-oriented north-south, and there's no athletics track. From a design point of view I'm disappointed, but if the Ti-Cats can prosper there I'll be happy as a clam.

I agree. It's nice that IWS is finally being replaced, but it's sad to see Hamilton going from having, what was in the mid-70s (if you can believe it) Canada's largest football stadium to having one tied with Ottawa for the smallest. At least Ottawa has the excuse of having been out of the league for many years and is faced with the challenge of rebuilding its fan base.

I have no doubt that the playing facilities will be top notch and players will be grateful for having non-disgusting locker rooms, but it's hard to believe that Hamilton couldn't have done any better than this. It's like wanting a new car and finally getting a stripped down, base model Chevy Sonic or something like that... yes it's a new car and it'll do the job reliably, but it's nothing to get excited about.

I noticed in the Ticats Virtual Venue that they're actually selling season tickets on the endzone patio... the view from those "seats" is horrendous and you don't even have the benefit of a jumbotron at the other end to actually watch the game on. If they can manage to sell tickets for this area, which basically amounts to paying $25 to $50 a pop as cover charge to buy $10 beers and watch the game on TV, then the Ticats marketing staff deserve a medal.

[isaidso]

That said, I have a sneaking feeling that I'll be watching more football in Hamilton than at Skydome next year. I absolutely hate hate hate watching football in that wretched place and only go when my league has their social. The Argos can't build a stadium fast enough. The Skydome is killing the team. It says a lot when the game day experience in Guelph blows Toronto out of the water.

I invited a friend to an Argos game 3 years ago. He likes football and decided to give the CFL a chance. He just had the look of utter shock on his face when he took his seat. 25,000 fans and less atmosphere than a hospital bathroom. It was so embarrassing and goes a long way in explaining why Torontonians don't go to Argos games. Why would they? It's like spending $30 to sit in a shopping centre and watch the game on a big screen 400 ft away because you can't see anything. We spent the next 10 minutes telling him that there was nothing wrong with the sport or the league, it was the stadium.

He hasn't been back since.

Originally Posted by elly63

Fans would like to see Argos in new home
Steve Buffery, Toronto Sun October 14, 2013

GUELPH - There was more atmosphere at the University of Guelph’s Alumni Stadium on Monday afternoon with 13,362 fans in the stands than there generally is when 25,000 show up at the Rogers Centre for a Toronto Argonauts game.

“This is what CFL football is all about,” said Mississauga’s Scott Ross, whose family has had Argos season tickets since 1971.

Ross, decked out in double blue from his hat to his boots, stood in the sunshine sucking back a cold one in a parking lot just across the street from Alumni Stadium on Sunday afternoon with a group of Box J Boys, the Hamilton Tiger-Cats notoriously zealous fan club.

It was about an hour before the Argos-Ticats game and everybody was in a great mood, a perfect afternoon for football — sunshine, cozy stadium, coolers full of cold beverages, a live band playing nearby.

And though the Argos were defeated 24-18 by their Eastern Division rivals, Ross said his hope is for every Argos game to have the atmosphere like the one enjoyed Thanksgiving Day in Guelph.

Alumni Stadium has been the site for the Ticats home games this season with the club’s new stadium currently being built on the site of the old Ivor Wynne in Hamilton.

The Argos, meanwhile, continue to play out of the cavernous Rogers Centre where, even when they get a crowd of 20,000 to 25,000, it’s Deadsville. The place is too big and the fans too spread out. Ross said a place like Alumni — with no fancy bells and whistles, just open air football in a cozy stadium — would be perfect for Argos’ games (though with perhaps about 10,000 more seats).

And it doesn’t have to be in downtown Toronto either, he added. In fact, it would probably better if they didn’t play downtown Ross said.

I was with him 100% till he got to that bit in bold. He lives in Mississauga; of course a car centric person like him doesn't care where it is. The Argonauts need to move, but it must go in the core somewhere or it will have abdicated. Out of sight, out of mind, and this team will lose any claims it might have as Toronto's football team. The Argonauts must remain as visible as possible. Nothing was clearer to me than that when I watched the exhibition game at Varsity in June.

The Architect: Agree 100%. That's what makes it doubly hard to take.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by isaidso

That said, I have a sneaking feeling that I'll be traveling to Hamilton to watch more football next year than at Skydome. I absolutely hate hate hate watching football in that wretched place and only go when my league has their social. The Argos can't build a stadium fast enough. The Skydome is killing the team. It says a lot when the game day experience in Guelph blows Toronto out of the water.

I've been to games at Skydome and I've found it a very enjoyable place to watch them. Great location, very comfortable, nice amenities.

I really find it amazing that over the 25 years they've been there, the Argos have been unable to fill 2/3 of the place on a consistent basis. If they could get 35,000 a game in there, it would change the atmosphere in Skydome completely. There is nothing really wrong with the facility itself, it just lacks warm bodies.

It's hard to believe that this is what it has come to... it will actually be easier to come up with $200 million (or whatever) for a new, smaller facility than it would be to fill the existing one with fans.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by esquire

I've been to games at Skydome and I've found it a very enjoyable place to watch them. Great location, very comfortable, nice amenities.

I really find it amazing that over the 25 years they've been there, the Argos have been unable to fill 2/3 of the place on a consistent basis. If they could get 35,000 a game in there, it would change the atmosphere in Skydome completely. There is nothing really wrong with the facility itself, it just lacks warm bodies.

It's hard to believe that this is what it has come to... it will actually be easier to come up with $200 million (or whatever) for a new, smaller facility than it would be to fill the existing one with fans.

I'm not sure how you could enjoy football in there unless there were over 40,000 people in attendance and you sat in the right section. Honestly, the game day experience is 100 times better at a college game in the Maritimes sitting on a grassy bank.

There's tons wrong with that facility even when its full. Buffalo fans that come up for games played at Skydome hate it like you wouldn't believe. They complain that Skydome even with 45,000 fans has zero atmosphere and they're right. Sight lines are terrible, the gradient too low because its actually a baseball stadium, and the whole place feels like a plastic shopping centre. I agree with them 100%.

I had seats at the 45 yard line for last year's Vanier Cup and couldn't see a damn thing. The 45 yard line! If you're anywhere in the first 30 rows forget it. The angle is so slight you'll end up watching the Jumbotron the whole game, I guarantee you. A good half of the crowd are in seats so crappy they're bored out of their skulls and get the ocassional thrill when some moron goes on the P/A and pleads with them to make some noise. It's beyond LAME!

I've taken the bus to Hamilton in a -15C snow storm to watch McMaster not knowing anyone there, but take a 10 minute subway ride to Skydome? I'm a huge fan of Canadian football and the CFL. If you can't get me in there you know somethings terribly wrong.