YEG - Edmonton Int Airport

[Cage]

Originally Posted by ACT7

BA will almost certainly pull out of YYC or tack on YEG as a stop-over. YYC does have far too much capacity on that route and the flat international pax figures over the past few years are indicative of that. Now, with AC up-gauging to a 77W on that route, it will likely spell the end of BA at YYC. KLM will likely be the only foreign European tail at YYC for a few years.

It is definitely shaping up to be a dog fight between BA and AC on the Western Canada to LHR run. Couple of things are certain.
- Unlikely that BA would operate from all of YVR, YYC, and YEG.
- BA currently flows its YEG pax over YVR and not YYC. Check it out for yourself but to get YEG-YYC-LHR rt requires the ticket on AA ticket stock with the flights operated by WS and BA. Fly on BA ticket stock between YEG and LHR requires going through YVR or YYZ.
- Tag end are notoriously unprofitable. If BA really wanted to get serious about YEG-YYC-LHR they would have WS fly the YEG-YYC segment and optimize the flight connections.
- To further the WS 737 arguement, the BA 763 seats 189 pax with 141 economy seats. The WS 737 seats 136 in economy. The only reason to put on the BA tag end would be if there was enough World Traveller Plus and Club World traffic to justify the route and this market would not transfer over to WS 737 for the 40 minute flight.
- Difference between a BA 763 and BA 772 is 62 World Traveller (Economy) seats and 24 Club World (Business Class) seats. BA is unlikely to fill the additional 24 CW seats to justify an upguage to 772.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

I wonder if EIA has had discusions with FI to up their schedule?

FI does not have the metal to increase YEG-KEF service. They would have to either drop the YVR 2/wk plus take one weekly departure from the maintenance spare or pull another service off USA cities.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by Cage

It is definitely shaping up to be a dog fight between BA and AC on the Western Canada to LHR run. Couple of things are certain.
- Unlikely that BA would operate from all of YVR, YYC, and YEG.
- BA currently flows its YEG pax over YVR and not YYC. Check it out for yourself but to get YEG-YYC-LHR rt requires the ticket on AA ticket stock with the flights operated by WS and BA. Fly on BA ticket stock between YEG and LHR requires going through YVR or YYZ.
- Tag end are notoriously unprofitable. If BA really wanted to get serious about YEG-YYC-LHR they would have WS fly the YEG-YYC segment and optimize the flight connections.
- To further the WS 737 arguement, the BA 763 seats 189 pax with 141 economy seats. The WS 737 seats 136 in economy. The only reason to put on the BA tag end would be if there was enough World Traveller Plus and Club World traffic to justify the route and this market would not transfer over to WS 737 for the 40 minute flight.
- Difference between a BA 763 and BA 772 is 62 World Traveller (Economy) seats and 24 Club World (Business Class) seats. BA is unlikely to fill the additional 24 CW seats to justify an upguage to 772.

Good analysis and summary.

[tuffyy]

Originally Posted by Cage

I am always up for a debate of the facts and fact based opinions.

I wasn't referring to you personally. I was referring to AC as the "tantrum" thrower. In the aspect of "we will show em".

[cyeg66]

Originally Posted by tuffyy

I wasn't referring to you personally. I was referring to AC as the "tantrum" thrower. In the aspect of "we will show em".

I knew what you meant, Tuffy. One thing his consequent analysis points out is how airlines have unwittingly colluded to disadvantage YEG over the other western competing "plaque tournantes". Prices lower elsewhere, airline codeshares/interlines beneficial to those same locations, etc; All conceived for the sake of placing more eggs in fewer baskets. "Come hell or high water, we'll route them where we want to route them...." Fact is, they got all the power.

And for those that claim its "because they're in the business of making money", ha ha ha. They're in the business of trying to quash competition no matter what it takes. Normally, operating at a loss.

[Rogie]

Originally Posted by Cage

FI does not have the metal to increase YEG-KEF service. They would have to either drop the YVR 2/wk plus take one weekly departure from the maintenance spare or pull another service off USA cities.

You're right, though the folks at YVR airport authority are saying the FI flight to the Coast is 'the days not going to YEG.'

[LO 044]

Hey tuffyy when's that YEG-DFW good news coming? We could use it.

[Rocket252]

And the proposed International Shared flight?

We all need some good news for a Friday

[Rocket252]

Originally Posted by cyeg66

I knew what you meant, Tuffy. One thing his consequent analysis points out is how airlines have unwittingly colluded to disadvantage YEG over the other western competing "plaque tournantes". Prices lower elsewhere, airline codeshares/interlines beneficial to those same locations, etc; All conceived for the sake of placing more eggs in fewer baskets. "Come hell or high water, we'll route them where we want to route them...." Fact is, they got all the power.

And for those that claim its "because they're in the business of making money", ha ha ha. They're in the business of trying to quash competition no matter what it takes. Normally, operating at a loss.

You hit the nail right on the head. Excellent explanation of the situation we face.

[tuffyy]

I strongly suspect the IF flights will do very well at YEG. Based on connections into Europe alone and not having to wait hours unlike the current AC LHR flight that provides little in the way of convenience for onward travel. There maybe a small amount of traffic heading outside Europe on these flights the vast amount will be intra Europe connections with the vast majority heading to (Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich etc).

However it is true that the LHR flight is really the only way from YEG to places such as India, Pakistan, Lebanon etc. a high proportion of the pax on this flight are infact bound for those destinations. AC has always stomped its feet when someone has tried moves in Edmonton ie;Martinair when it wanted to make YEG and YYC scheduled destinations back in the early 2000's.

It comes down in my opinion to a hub becoming threatened and doing what it needs to do to protect itself. Some view it as punishment while in reality it's simple airline logic to protect itself and it's bottom line. AC still continues it's climb back up from being unprofitable however it's slowly gaining ground back.

IF recently hired a regional sales manager for YEG and I'm sure this person will head a aggressive marketing campaign to begin building the route and showing the benefits of this new link. Time will tell however I don't view a 757 as being a difficult aircraft to fill to/from YEG. And a simple look at the lower fares makes it even more desirable.

[lubicon]

Background information: I live in Calgary and coach my daughter's hockey team.

What does this have to do with YEG? Yesterday I received an email about a tournament, or more accurately a tour for female hockey players. Basically you put together a team and take them to Europe for a tournament and cultural experience. Neat idea and all that. The interesting point is that there is a stopover in Iceland for a couple of days for siteseeing and playing some games before heading on to Finland. The tour is priced from Edmonton so obviously this is has been put together to utilize the new flight. Nice to see the route has only been official for just over a month and tour operators are aware and taking advantage of it.

[dansk]

Awesome! Thanks for highlighting that.

And Tuffyy, I think you're 100% right. Air Canada will do anything to protect its turf here in Edmonton and the Martin Air was a prime example.

Hopefully the Government of Canada continues its plan of increasing competition in the aviation market. Supposedly there is some sort of plans in the work.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by tuffyy

However it is true that the LHR flight is really the only way from YEG to places such as India, Pakistan, Lebanon etc. a high proportion of the pax on this flight are infact bound for those destinations. AC has always stomped its feet when someone has tried moves in Edmonton ie;Martinair when it wanted to make YEG and YYC scheduled destinations back in the early 2000's.

It comes down in my opinion to a hub becoming threatened and doing what it needs to do to protect itself. Some view it as punishment while in reality it's simple airline logic to protect itself and it's bottom line. AC still continues it's climb back up from being unprofitable however it's slowly gaining ground back.

Agreed. Air Canada is a business like any other and will do what it has to to please the shareholder. If that means strategising to keep a competitor out it will. Is this unique to Air Canada? I think not. I doubt AC would do anything to upset Bay Street (aka Canada's financial centre like it or not). Even with the additions noted to Europe at YYC these are really only partial gains back to what AC has stripped away over the last couple of years. For those who have stated over and over they will never fly AC, perhaps that strategy has worked and perhaps fewer fliers on AC out of YEG because of that. So when AC pulls a route because of fewer passengers....

And Icelandair is actually FI not IF (we know it's a when not an if... Bad humour). ;-)

[CMD UW]

@lubicon - Interesting to know, thanks.

[tuffyy]

Gotta love my iPhones auto-correct!!! Sigh... Lol

[Qafir Arnaut]

Originally Posted by cyeg66

So, if I got this straight, AC pulls another mainline 763 to boost flights ex-YUL to France? That would be brilliant! Our city of over 1 million and tons of disposable income and now zero flights to Europe should be happy that YUL (city of 3.7 million and mediocre disposable income levels) gains its 100th+ weekly flight to France alone (b/w AF, AC, TS, and Corsair)? A little disproportionate, much? Wow, keep up the good work Air Eastern Canada.... Keep ensuring that that particular market is heavily over saturated and guarantee you all lose money. "We're not happy until they're not happy". 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 deplorable.

Northern Albertans lost their personal and business ties to Europe a long time ago. I was surprised there even was a direct connection to Londinium from YEG.


In any case, the question of the need for more direct flights from YEG was posed to Don Iveson and his reply was curious: build high speed rail to the airport so more people decide to use it. Not sure what to make of that. Personally more immigration and business ties to Europe will do that trick. Somehow I have the feeling the riggers in northern Alberta don't feel Europe that much.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by Qafir Arnaut

Northern Albertans lost their personal and business ties to Europe a long time ago. I was surprised there even was a direct connection to Londinium from YEG.


In any case, the question of the need for more direct flights from YEG was posed to Don Iveson and his reply was curious: build high speed rail to the airport so more people decide to use it. Not sure what to make of that. Personally more immigration and business ties to Europe will do that trick. Somehow I have the feeling the riggers in northern Alberta don't feel Europe that much.

"Riggers in northern Alberta?" You really don't have a clue, do you?

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by Qafir Arnaut

Northern Albertans lost their personal and business ties to Europe a long time ago. I was surprised there even was a direct connection to Londinium from YEG.


In any case, the question of the need for more direct flights from YEG was posed to Don Iveson and his reply was curious: build high speed rail to the airport so more people decide to use it. Not sure what to make of that. Personally more immigration and business ties to Europe will do that trick. Somehow I have the feeling the riggers in northern Alberta don't feel Europe that much.

I think you'd be surprised how many of these 'riggers' fly on business to do work overseas. My father-in-law is just one rig service manager who works for National Oilwell that does. And he's one of many who live in the Edmonton area. Business class is not just reserved for the 'suits'.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Qafir Arnaut

In any case, the question of the need for more direct flights from YEG was posed to Don Iveson and his reply was curious: build high speed rail to the airport so more people decide to use it. Not sure what to make of that.

You're not sure what to make of that statement? How about "what an idiotic statement!". Crystal clear.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by s211

You're not sure what to make of that statement? How about "what an idiotic statement!". Crystal clear.

How about you find out the context that supposed question was asked and the exact question and actual response prior to you jumping to any idiotic conclusions. If you can't find this recorded and/or reported by a media outlet...you may have just bought some smelly bait thrown out by Qafir Arnaut...