Saskatoon Construction II

[saskatoonborn]

Yea i was at city council last night too and Pat couldn't even bring herself to say strippers.

In other news renders for city center tower will be up whenever they confirm the hotel chain thats going in there. Secondly to add to the height discussion, in the official statement it said that the building didn't need council approval? Does that mean that when they upped the height limit for river landing they upped it for all of downtown? I thought it was an exception for only river landing.

[prairieguy]

Random comments:

I live in South East area of city and flts fly over us numerous times a day, but can't say specifically which runway they would ultimately use.

Great to see Saskatoon's building permit values doing so well again this year. Man...one quick drive around Stonebridge commercial area and it is not surprising. There is so much construction going on there...soon to rival the feel of the University Heights commercial area.

Can't wait for City Centre Tower renditions to be made public. I only hope that this kick starts Nassers' RiverLanding Village project and not kill it! My wife and I have been waiting for some attractive options in downtown for years. Considered KG condos' at the time, but guest parking and that lack of a grocer kind of scared us off (those concerns still exist, so hope our downtown BID and City Council do as much as they can to encourage a grocery/market downtown). The proverbial chicken and egg issue....

[nook]

I like how council could be spending their time talking about how to improve things like mass transit for a growing city, yet they'd rather spend their time talking about strippers.

Who the hell cares? Allow them. Don't want to go? Don't go. No one is going to suddenly force mandatory visits to the strip clubs.

I can't believe our taxes have been going towards paying council to even debate the issue.

[gowest]

It really makes alot of sense when you are concerned about criminal activities around bars that have strippers, then you want to move them into dark, remote areas of the city. Organzied crime is involved with strip places in many cities and it will here sooner or later. Moving it in to industrial areas is just trying to hide it. We are creating a dangerous enviroment for all who go there. I'm sorry to see one Council member trying to push her morals on everyone. Lets get on with more important issues. If you don't like it, don't go.

[drm310]

That's because this city still has a puritanical streak, uptight about — and thinks it's OK to regulate peoples' behaviour, because they need to be saved from themselves. Same religious — dressed up as concern for public safety.

In Montreal there are strip clubs on rue Sainte-Catherine, the major commercial artery downtown, and no one bats an eyelash.

Originally Posted by nook

I like how council could be spending their time talking about how to improve things like mass transit for a growing city, yet they'd rather spend their time talking about strippers.

Who the hell cares? Allow them. Don't want to go? Don't go. No one is going to suddenly force mandatory visits to the strip clubs.

I can't believe our taxes have been going towards paying council to even debate the issue.

[The Bess]

didn't realize they still had cameras up for circle south project

http://www.circledrive.ca/#camera

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by Morogolus

Thing is, they barely use that runway. Every time I've flown out of or into Saskatoon they use the east-west runway. I live in Lawson Heights and it's pretty much non stop planes flying over my apartment. I never see them coming in from the other direction nor do I recall being downtown and seeing a plane flying overhead. Plus how high would a building have to be to interfere with a plane? 1000m? We're not New York. It's a silly law and it hampers Saskatoon's growth.

Well, Saskatoon is not New York: the distances are vast in NYC compared to micro-cosmic Saskatoon. (YXE is essentially 'adjacent' to Saskatoon's CBD.)

The approach to Runway 33 is perfectly fine-and-dandy to utilize for a straight-in approach in VFR (Visual Flight Rules) conditions; however, Runway 33's IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) approach is less forgiving. The IFR approach to Runway 33 is a VOR/DME-type approach. VOR/DME-type approaches are not required to precisely line up to the runway centre line: they are instead, assigned the most appropriate VOR radial in order to achieve the greatest degree of success of landing once the runway environment has been sighted upon "breaking out" or achieving visual at minimums. This is based on the virtue of the VOR facility's location on the airfield. The approach to Runway 33 is actually 11 degrees counter-clockwise from the heading of runway 33. (Which happens to skew it directly over the downtown core.)

And now: IFR Minimums:

MDAs. (Minimum Descent Altitudes) The relevant MDA for the aforementioned IFR approach to Runway 33 between SASOD (3.6 NM away) and LIDEX (1.8 NM away) is 594' AGL. (Or Above Ground Altitude.) If you prefer, it's 181.05 metres AGL. Once past LIDEX, the final MDA is 353' (or 107.6 metres) for the runway.

Downtown Saskatoon lies between 1.8 and 3.6 NM from the runway threshold.

An aircraft, no matter how large or small, while conducting an IFR approach, is permitted to descend down - but not below - the lowest relevant MDA along the approach published in the CAP (Canada Air Pilot) before achieving visual of the runway environment. If visual is not achieved, then a Missed Approach must be executed.

Based on the premise here, I can't see Saskatoon's height limit being raised anytime soon: If 95 metres is Saskatoon's height limit, 181 metres is already pushing it for IFR inbound traffic. 86 metres isn't a hell of a lot of headroom for a B757's landing gear to clear tall rooftops (at this time) -- especially -- when in IMC. (Instrument Meteorological Conditions.)

Furthermore, if Runway 09/27 were to be unserviceable, for any reason, and the wind is out of the northwest and conditions are IMC, then runway 33 would then be the only gig in town.

I would suspect that would be as to why things are what they are for height restrictions.

I hope this helped you guys in clarifying this height mystery a bit.

[nook]

Originally Posted by drm310

That's because this city still has a puritanical streak, uptight about — and thinks it's OK to regulate peoples' behaviour, because they need to be saved from themselves. Same religious — dressed up as concern for public safety.

In Montreal there are strip clubs on rue Sainte-Catherine, the major commercial artery downtown, and no one bats an eyelash.

I've been to Rue Sainte-Catherine, great place. Strip clubs don't ruin the vibe at all.

So when does the east side of the river revert back to being a dry temperance colony? Lorje would like that.

[Morogolus]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

Well, Saskatoon is not New York: the distances are vast in NYC compared to micro-cosmic Saskatoon. (YXE is essentially 'adjacent' to Saskatoon's CBD.)

The approach to Runway 33 is perfectly fine-and-dandy to utilize for a straight-in approach in VFR (Visual Flight Rules) conditions; however, Runway 33's IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) approach is less forgiving. The IFR approach to Runway 33 is a VOR/DME-type approach. VOR/DME-type approaches are not required to precisely line up to the runway centre line: they are instead, assigned the most appropriate VOR radial in order to achieve the greatest degree of success of landing once the runway environment has been sighted upon "breaking out" or achieving visual at minimums. This is based on the virtue of the VOR facility's location on the airfield. The approach to Runway 33 is actually 11 degrees counter-clockwise from the heading of runway 33. (Which happens to skew it directly over the downtown core.)

And now: IFR Minimums:

MDAs. (Minimum Descent Altitudes) The relevant MDA for the aforementioned IFR approach to Runway 33 between SASOD (3.6 NM away) and LIDEX (1.8 NM away) is 594' AGL. (Or Above Ground Altitude.) If you prefer, it's 181.05 metres AGL. Once past LIDEX, the final MDA is 353' (or 107.6 metres) for the runway.

Downtown Saskatoon lies between 1.8 and 3.6 NM from the runway threshold.

An aircraft, no matter how large or small, while conducting an IFR approach, is permitted to descend down - but not below - the lowest relevant MDA along the approach published in the CAP (Canada Air Pilot) before achieving visual of the runway environment. If visual is not achieved, then a Missed Approach must be executed.

Based on the premise here, I can't see Saskatoon's height limit being raised anytime soon: If 95 metres is Saskatoon's height limit, 181 metres is already pushing it for IFR inbound traffic. 86 metres isn't a hell of a lot of headroom for a B757's landing gear to clear tall rooftops (at this time) -- especially -- when in IMC. (Instrument Meteorological Conditions.)

Furthermore, if Runway 09/27 were to be unserviceable, for any reason, and the wind is out of the northwest and conditions are IMC, then runway 33 would then be the only gig in town.

I would suspect that would be as to why things are what they are for height restrictions.

I hope this helped you guys in clarifying this height mystery a bit.

Well that shut me up. Bravo sir..

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by nook

I've been to Rue Sainte-Catherine, great place. Strip clubs don't ruin the vibe at all.

So when does the east side of the river revert back to being a dry temperance colony? Lorje would like that.

Yes Saskatoon is just like Montreal... about 120 years ago, when it comes to prudishness.

In Montreal stripping is considered a noble profession. In Saskatoon it some sort of mortal sin.

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by Morogolus

Well that shut me up. Bravo sir..

Lol!!! I just wanted to throw in my '2 bits' about that before this discourse spun out of control. There is a reason for everything in this world. In this case, and at this time in Saskatoon's history, it is fundamentally about both aviation and public safety.

My apologies about not having an IFR approach plate on here for you guys to look at though.

[dsim249]

Originally Posted by Stormer

Yes Saskatoon is just like Montreal... about 120 years ago, when it comes to prudishness.

In Montreal stripping is considered a noble profession. In Saskatoon it some sort of mortal sin.

Uhhh...

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Morogolus

I cannot stand this holier-than-thou attitude when it comes to stripping in Saskatoon. I thought we've sort of grown out of this kind of thinking as we've become a more worldly city but apparently not. It's not even full frontal stripping and they're acting like we want to open a brothel next to a daycare centre. If you don't like stripping, don't go! Why do you feel the need to push your agenda and morals on everyone else? I don't think there's even a single bar in the industrial area...ridiculous. The same area where there is no late night bus service, no sidewalks, dodgy atmosphere and way out of the way from anywhere so you can't walk there and waiting for a taxi will take forever. The people coming out of a — are no different than people coming out of any other place that serves alcohol. What do they think is going to happen to us if we see a woman wearing — tassels? Also Pat Lorje is the worst and shame on anyone who voted for that fossil last election (I'm looking at you people from Montgomery) Nothing constructive ever comes out of her mouth.

At least they decided to allow existing places to have exotic dancing a couple times a month.

Sorry just needed to rant a bit...

She hasn't had a strong opponent in ages, and I'm pretty sure she usually wins 70 - 80% of the vote In the last election, Owen Fortosky ran again and he managed to decrease her percentage of the vote a fair bit, but not enough to make it close. She's very popular.

[chris]

Originally Posted by Morogolus

Well that shut me up. Bravo sir..

Given this info, would there be any room in the northern edge of downtown Saskatoon to have no height limit?? Does the height limit really need to cover the entire downtown?

[prairieguy]

Article on the addition of hotels (and rooms) in Saskatoon.

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/travel/Hotel+room+boom+Saskatoon/9019840/story.html

Although this is great news for the city, every time I read articles like this, or about condo development projects like The Banks or the new City Centre Tower project, I can't help but think that Nassers' dream project is slowly fading away...I truly hope I am wrong!! I absolutely believe he had sincere intentions, but the length of delays getting this going, for whatever reasons, may contribute to the project being viewed as no longer feasible from a demand standpoint.

Others thoughts?

[kalin_10]

Originally Posted by prairieguy

Article on the addition of hotels (and rooms) in Saskatoon.

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/travel/Hotel+room+boom+Saskatoon/9019840/story.html

Although this is great news for the city, every time I read articles like this, or about condo development projects like The Banks or the new City Centre Tower project, I can't help but think that Nassers' dream project is slowly fading away...I truly hope I am wrong!! I absolutely believe he had sincere intentions, but the length of delays getting this going, for whatever reasons, may contribute to the project being viewed as no longer feasible from a demand standpoint.

Others thoughts?

I have to agree; however, with any of these tower projects - be it the City Centre project or RiverLanding, I'll believe it when I see it. Excuse the scepticism, but these 'major projects' seem to have an approach more to garner media attention then to actually establish construction development in the ground. The Riverlanding project has been a cycle of delays and excuses to the point that it's all hearsay, even from Nasser himself. On top of that, the City Centre tower; if it does go ahead with construction, I dare say will kill the Riverlanding Project completely. Reading the last Colliers report, they anticipate higher vacancy rates over the next 12 months or so - thus I don't see further investment in downtown with large office tower products as the fringe development is still less expensive and more attractive for these investors. As for further residential towers, I see downtown area more of a low to mid-rise development area, such as the banks. As said in previous post, downtown is exempt from a major asset - that being a grocery store.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[macca]

It's interesting that a grocery store is constantly referenced as a critical missing ingredient in residential development downtown. How many Saskatoon neighbourhoods today truly have a grocery store? Very few. Most supermarkets are large format stores with a lot of parking on auto-centric roads. They are not integrated amenities within a community. So the reality is most people have to drive to get groceries. No different than if you lived in a tower downtown and had to drive to the nearest Sobey's/Safeway/Superstore.

[drm310]

True enough. Very few neighbourhoods except the oldest ones have commercial zones integrated with residential. The car culture that took over in the early 20th century led to a separation of the two - you live in one area, work in the other, and drive between the two.

The challenge is to get people in Saskatoon to change their thinking, and believe that commercial and residential spaces can co-exist. A downtown grocery store would make people less dependent on cars, therefore increasing the livability and appeal of the area.

Originally Posted by macca

It's interesting that a grocery store is constantly referenced as a critical missing ingredient in residential development downtown. How many Saskatoon neighbourhoods today truly have a grocery store? Very few. Most supermarkets are large format stores with a lot of parking on auto-centric roads. They are not integrated amenities within a community. So the reality is most people have to drive to get groceries. No different than if you lived in a tower downtown and had to drive to the nearest Sobey's/Safeway/Superstore.

[Echoes]

I live in City Park and I really, really would love to support the "local" Shop Easy on 7th Ave. But apart from grabbing a few staple items there, I find it completely inadequate as far as quality and selection goes. Which has me driving further afield to the suburban grocery chains.

[prairieguy]

Originally Posted by macca

It's interesting that a grocery store is constantly referenced as a critical missing ingredient in residential development downtown. How many Saskatoon neighbourhoods today truly have a grocery store? Very few. Most supermarkets are large format stores with a lot of parking on auto-centric roads. They are not integrated amenities within a community. So the reality is most people have to drive to get groceries. No different than if you lived in a tower downtown and had to drive to the nearest Sobey's/Safeway/Superstore.

The reason that I have personally cited the need for a grocery store in my decision to live downtown or not is because I AM looking for a walkable neighborhood. The main motivation to relocate downtown for my wife and I is that we would be able to WALK or Bike to restaurants, entertainment, pubs, theatre, galleries and yes, grocery or markets. It doesn't have to be a large format grocery store. Many urban centres have excellent examples of 'boutique markets' that service their downtown neighborhoods more then adequately.

For my wife and I, it is absolutely an issue/want. I understand for others it is not a factor.