Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by Fatty McButterpants

It's going to be nice, but I don't think it's going to be great. That's all I'm saying. It will be respectable, but a showpiece for others to gawk and awe at? C'mon now.

Geee, wasn't that supposed to be the idea? That it was going to be something that would draw tourists just to gawk?

Leave it to provincial Ottawa to build something "Meh" on such a prominent site.

Maybe if there had been more vision, we might get something compelling, like Manchester's Bullring


Or Bilbao's Ghery-designed Guggenheim?


Or his "Fred and Ginger" buildings in Prague?


These are buildings that people make a special effort to visit. That help to redefine the image of a city. That people want to have their pictures taken in front of. That people want to but fridge magnets and postcards of.

Not so the mutant offspring of the Civic Centre and OSMUG.

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by jay2018

alecz_dad

If some got there way and a central park was built the traffic would be the same if not worse.

Don't know that there was ever really a "way" that anyone was going to get.

That's the problem, there was never any serious effort made to have an open conversation about what COULD go there. The terms of the public discussion was dictated by OSMUG's backdoor proposal. So the issue was alaays defined (and brilliantly I would add, by OSMUG's PR agency) as being either you're for the developers' scheme, or else you're an "asphalt-hugger" who wants no change.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I've always liked the new stadium design, but when I saw pics of Winnipeg's stadium last week I was in awe. It looks as good as some NFL stadiums. I don't know if our stadium is on that level.

I think the south side stands are significantly better then what has been built in Winnipeg (if the renders hold).

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Maybe if there had been more vision, we might get something compelling, like Manchester's Bullring

That building in Manchester is disgusting. Glad we are not building anything like that at Lansdowne.

[jay2018]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Don't know that there was ever really a "way" that anyone was going to get.

That's the problem, there was never any serious effort made to have an open conversation about what COULD go there. The terms of the public discussion was dictated by OSMUG's backdoor proposal. So the issue was alaays defined (and brilliantly I would add, by OSMUG's PR agency) as being either you're for the developers' scheme, or else you're an "asphalt-hugger" who wants no change.

Would you not agree it would have been better if both sides worked together more?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Don't know that there was ever really a "way" that anyone was going to get.

That's the problem, there was never any serious effort made to have an open conversation about what COULD go there. The terms of the public discussion was dictated by OSMUG's backdoor proposal. So the issue was alaays defined (and brilliantly I would add, by OSMUG's PR agency) as being either you're for the developers' scheme, or else you're an "asphalt-hugger" who wants no change.

Why the fixation on OSEG? Do you actually know that OSEG had a PR agency, or is that just more conspiracy theory? I supsect the latter.

It's one thing to have a discussion on a subject. It's another to keep repeating the same pointss over and over in some Quixote-esque quest to prove that you represent the side of righteousness.

As many have pointed out, the time for that debate is over. You are solidly in troll territory at this stage.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by phil235

Why the fixation on OSEG? Do you actually know that OSEG had a PR agency, or is that just more conspiracy theory? I supsect the latter.

It's one thing to have a discussion on a subject. It's another to keep repeating the same pointss over and over in some Quixote-esque quest to prove that you represent the side of righteousness.

As many have pointed out, the time for that debate is over. You are solidly in troll territory at this stage.

It would hardly be a "conspiracy theory" to think that a company with a large investment proposed would hire a PR agency. It would be ridiculous if they didn't!

PR people craft messaging, produce events and such, they're not wizards and witches folks.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

A typical Saturday afternoon on Bank Street in 2014?

Looks great, a line of cars heading to frequent businesses in the Glebe! A retailer's dream scenario. They're congested so they will window shop as they go through, then park and walk around as it isn't practical to drive between shops. That produces yet more window shopping, and incidental purchases and activities. They've enjoyed their visit so much and are all shopped out, so they pop into a restaurant for a meal.

Commerce. Happening. On. A. Street. Near. You.

**** SUMMER 2014 ****

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Geee, wasn't that supposed to be the idea? That it was going to be something that would draw tourists just to gawk?

...

Maybe if there had been more vision, we might get something compelling, like Manchester's Bullring

No, instead there would be complaints that what they're building doesn't blend in with "the character of the neighborhood".

Either way, there would be complaints because you, and many of your neighbors, are terrified of change. I don't need a PR agency to tell me that, the people's behaviour at the tree cutting was plenty of evidence.

[jay2018]

People in the Glebe should be happy Landsdown is going to really help the Glebe and area.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by gjhall

It would hardly be a "conspiracy theory" to think that a company with a large investment proposed would hire a PR agency. It would be ridiculous if they didn't!

PR people craft messaging, produce events and such, they're not wizards and witches folks.

What I always find funny about that is that when various opponents were constantly being quoted in media with all their fears and concerns, my friends and I were dying to have someone from the city and OSEG set the record straight. Roger Greenberg did a couple of times then stopped because clearly there was no point.

So sure, there was promotion about the new Lansdowne. But the notion that it took some PR campaign to paint those opposed as being against change, or only for change as long as they dictate it, is comical. All it took was a combination of behaviour and history.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by JFFournier

What I always find funny about that is that when various opponents were constantly being quoted in media with all their fears and concerns, my friends and I were dying to have someone from the city and OSEG set the record straight. Roger Greenberg did a couple of times then stopped because clearly there was no point.

So sure, there was promotion about the new Lansdowne. But the notion that it took some PR campaign to paint those opposed as being against change, or only for change as long as they dictate it, is comical. All it took was a combination of behaviour and history.

Exactly. If anything, OSEG was far too quiet in response to the barrage of criticism eminating from a very well-organized and well-resourced opposition (after all, they spent $200,000 plus on legals - not bad for a rag-tag community group). As much as the FOL likes to portray the David vs. Goliath scenario, they actually got far more air time to express their views than OSEG ever did - you couldn't turn on the radio without hearing Ian Lee pontificating about some evil or other in relation to the project.

I saw absolutely no evidence of a public relations campaign or the work of a PR agency on behalf of OSEG. And presumably one would have noticed, given that public relations campaigns tend to occur in public.

This is just more dredging up and repetition of arguments that were already tired in 2011. And for what purpose? This project is going up.

alecz_dad, can you enlighten us on your objective here? Is this some sort of endless set up for an "I told you so"?

[jay2018]

I think Oseg was far to nice.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by phil235

alecz_dad, can you enlighten us on your objective here? Is this some sort of endless set up for an "I told you so"?

I have a feeling that convo may go as follows: It's a beautiful, multi-purpose event and entertainment centre located centrally to appeal to all of Ottawa and not just certain parts. See, I told you so.

[JFFournier]

Speaking (more or less) of distinguishing features, does anyone know what the Beacon water feature is supposed to look like?

[Luker]

Nice 2nd post, Troll.

Don't you have some carbon-neutral, gluten free oatmeal to eat? And a bar of handmade soap to clense you of your hypocritical nimbyism?

P.S.

I'm sure you can go to a Glebe community meeting or something alike and propagate your irrational and senseless comments amongst the deluded proponents.

Originally Posted by Fatty McButterpants

I'm sorry, but am I the only one who thinks the design of the stadium is mediocre at best? Don't get me wrong, I support the Lansdowne development and I am happy the project went ahead. But let's be honest about what we're getting here ... a refurbishment. Or, if you prefer, a half a new stadium. There's no symmetry whatsoever between the new south side and the 70's looking decrepit north side. It's like they didn't even try. To the south, a decent looking grandstand with an interesting veil. To the north, a bunch of seats fastened to an ugly flat slab under a completely different (and ugly) looking roof system. Under that, an awkward looking arena.

Again, I'm glad this development is moving forward. It's definitely a huge improvement that needed to happen. But I think headlines like "Lansdowne's Wow Factor" in today's Sun are a bit much. There are many places in the world where they are building impressive NEW stadiums (heck, even in Winnipeg). As far as refurbished stadiums go, this one is okay. I guess.

[jay2018]

Fatty McButterpants

As for the area around it i think its going to be great and used as a model.

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

That building in Manchester is disgusting. Glad we are not building anything like that at Lansdowne.

Bartlebooth, "disgusting" is a strong word. You sound like you're too emotionally involved with it to offer a reasoned opinion. Was this something in your mental, if not literal, backyard?

At least this new building is interesting, distinctive; a real attraction.


Unlike Lansdowne's new buildings, which look like yet more uninspired Hobin-style boxes (but he's not working on it anymore, right?) That are ultimately quite ticky-tacky, and will look dated pretty quickly.

[alecz_dad]

Originally Posted by jay2018

Would you not agree it would have been better if both sides worked together more?

It would have been better if there had been a REAL public discussion about what could be there before there were sides.

As soon as Larry O.B. agreed to hop into bed with the developers' backdoor scheme, there was no longer any pretence of an open process.

People critical of the process, critical of the proposed outcome, realized from hard prior experience that the community's view and the developers' view were so far apart as to be unbridgeable.

During the "consultation" the reason the City permitted an opportunity for the public to publicly ask questions of the developers, was because some loudmouth Glebe folks called B.S. on the early dog and pony shows, and went home to get their megaphone.

As for the small concessions that were wrung from the developers, these only came after several community groups and individuals threatened to take the scheme to the OMB. Ultimately, they backed down, because everyone knows the OMB rarely says no to developers; and because OSMUG's coterie of billion-dollar companies, billionaires, mere millionaires and City Hall, all had infinitely more resources at their disposal.

But, in all earnestness, I must ask, how do you think the residents' side could have worked better? It seemed to me they knew they were getting screwed anyway. It was just a choice of whether they fought to keep their pants on, or just dropped their drawers and grabbed their ankles, and hoped Roger Greenberg would be gentle.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

Bartlebooth, "disgusting" is a strong word. You sound like you're too emotionally involved with it to offer a reasoned opinion. Was this something in your mental, if not literal, backyard?

At least this new building is interesting, distinctive; a real attraction.


Unlike Lansdowne's new buildings, which look like yet more uninspired Hobin-style boxes (but he's not working on it anymore, right?) That are ultimately quite ticky-tacky, and will look dated pretty quickly.

You're posting pics of designs that you know people in the Glebe would NEVER go for because it "doesn't fit in with the character of the neighbourhood".