DALLAS FORT WORTH | Urban + Suburban P & C

[colemonkee]

^ Exactly. That rendering looks more like 800 units. They're building 424.

[dch526]

Originally Posted by colemonkee

^ Exactly. That rendering looks more like 800 units. They're building 424.

Yea, that's definitely the old rendering. Greystar only bought one of the parcels in the overall City Lights Plan (the lot bounded by Cantegral, Live Oak, Good Latimer and Bryan)

Most of the land is still left to develop.

[Sic'EmBears]

It is the old rendering; I posted it for enjoyment. Perhaps we will see the new rendering in a month or so.

[maconahey]

Victory Park apartment project just weeks away from start next door to Dallas sports arena

By Steve Brown
[email protected]
2:06 pm on September 26, 2013

More than a year after making the land purchase, Houston-based Camden Property Trust is close to starting work on its apartment project in Dallas’ Victory Park.

The nationwide apartment developer and investor plans to build 423 rental units on the parking lot just north of the American Airlines Center arena.

Camden bought the 6-acre site in early 2012 and has been working on plans since then.

The developer intends to submit plans for the project to the City of Dallas in a couple weeks, Todd Triggs, vice president in charge of development operations in the Southwest, said Thursday.

Triggs said Camden will then break ground, “soon after we receive our permits.”

more...
http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2013/0...t-next-door-to-dallas-sports-arena.html/

[dch526]

Originally Posted by maconahey

Victory Park apartment project just weeks away from start next door to Dallas sports arena

By Steve Brown
[email protected]
2:06 pm on September 26, 2013

More than a year after making the land purchase, Houston-based Camden Property Trust is close to starting work on its apartment project in Dallas’ Victory Park.

The nationwide apartment developer and investor plans to build 423 rental units on the parking lot just north of the American Airlines Center arena.

Camden bought the 6-acre site in early 2012 and has been working on plans since then.

The developer intends to submit plans for the project to the City of Dallas in a couple weeks, Todd Triggs, vice president in charge of development operations in the Southwest, said Thursday.

Triggs said Camden will then break ground, “soon after we receive our permits.”

more...
http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2013/0...t-next-door-to-dallas-sports-arena.html/

With Camden, Moda, Mill Creek, Sky House and Goat Hill. Victory Park should have a little over 1700 additional residential units by 2015 (+/-). Things are looking up for VP.

[TowerSpotter]

Originally Posted by DFW

Here is another rendering with all three, the tallest in the background is the third phase which is about a 50-story tower.



http://realestate.dmagazine.com/2013/09/...arts-stephan-pyles-hall-financial-group/

Well I knew this building was the 50 story tower!!! Anybody disagree?

[R1070]

Considering how long it has taken him to get the smaller building of the 3 off the ground. I doubt we will see the other two in our lifetimes and definitely not his. lol

[TTU Arch]

^ You never know. Hall has been bullish on the office market hugging Frisco / Plano at 121 / Tollway. 10 years ago he had a hard time gathering tenants for downtown and it was further complicated with the Arts District Parking garage agreement with the city of Dallas. Now that this building is going its 60% leased; well ahead of where he planned. He's not committing, but says the next one is the works. I think he's been burned enough in the past by having false announcements to commit to any start date on a second tower.

“Ultimately there will be around three quarters of a billion dollars of construction when we are done,” Hall said.

The next tower in Hall Financial’s development is already in the works, and will likely contain a combination of condominiums and hotel rooms.

"....“We are talking to some hotel partners that would own and operate the building – that’s what we are after,” Hall said. “If we find the right hotel partner that’s what we are doing.”..."

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2013/0...t-office-tower-is-60-percent-lease.html/

[Trae]

Originally Posted by TTU Arch

When one company moves out another is moving in. A couple recent big moves downtown have been HKS and Jacobs is coming soon. Those are big office tenants that downtown has struggled with in the past to score.

I agree uptown is hot, but I disagree with the marginal success of downtown. Look around day and night and its quite the opposite of the statements above. Don't know why its painful to see Houston build 50 story towers. Dallas developers concentrate more on building neighborhoods, and well built neighborhood will attract much more people, activity and development than a tower. Those tall towers will come again to Dallas. Hall is proposing one already.

Will Spire get off the ground soon? Who knows? Hall has been around longer and has stronger network connections. IMO the Lonestar site getting off the ground will help / add to the Arts district better than Spire at this point. Its a complicated business deal b/w the city / developer, in the heart of the Arts district, and has been a long time coming. Spire is also competing against Billingsly as well in the same area. Like Hall she has a long standing positive reputation.

Just because Houston builds towers does not mean neighborhoods aren't also being built. There is just a market for taller towers in Houston than there is in Dallas.

[TTU Arch]

Originally Posted by Trae

Just because Houston builds towers does not mean neighborhoods aren't also being built. There is just a market for taller towers in Houston than there is in Dallas.

All too familiar and involved with several projects in Houston. While there is a market for taller towers in Houston, the city does not have a comprehensive plan. You currently have a number of planned developments outside of downtown that have towers surrounded by new parking lots (energy corridor and museum district for example). Makes for great parametric views, but does not address a pedestrian friendly environment. There are a couple of spots that are starting to pop up (the Rengent Park development for example), but there is not the same comprehensive fabric that you can find in Dallas running through neighborhoods like Turtle Creek, Oak Lawn, Uptown, Knox/Henderson, downtown that Dallas has been working on for decades now. Zoning plays a big part, and one of the big complaints we hear from developers when working in Houston. They will spend the money to have nice side walks, street scape, etc, in areas like midtown / galleria. However adjacent property owners do not have to adhere to any zoning and get away with doing the minimum, at the same time many developers let traffic / parking drive the shape of their developments. In the end you have a patch work of strip centers with vast parking lots adjacent to a development that is more urban.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by TTU Arch

All too familiar and involved with several projects in Houston. While there is a market for taller towers in Houston, the city does not have a comprehensive plan. You currently have a number of planned developments outside of downtown that have towers surrounded by new parking lots (energy corridor and museum district for example). Makes for great parametric views, but does not address a pedestrian friendly environment. There are a couple of spots that are starting to pop up (the Rengent Park development for example), but there is not the same comprehensive fabric that you can find in Dallas running through neighborhoods like Turtle Creek, Oak Lawn, Uptown, Knox/Henderson, downtown that Dallas has been working on for decades now. Zoning plays a big part, and one of the big complaints we hear from developers when working in Houston. They will spend the money to have nice side walks, street scape, etc, in areas like midtown / galleria. However adjacent property owners do not have to adhere to any zoning and get away with doing the minimum, at the same time many developers let traffic / parking drive the shape of their developments. In the end you have a patch work of strip centers with vast parking lots adjacent to a development that is more urban.

While I get overall with what you are saying, you unfortunately ended with hyperbole. Dallas certainly does a have better comprehensive plan and does things less organically than Houston (which can be a pro/con). However, lets not act like Dallas is head and shoulders, if even better than, Houston in a majority of "urbanity statistics."

Both cities have a lot going on in their respective cores and have invested in new infrastructure.

[TTU Arch]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

While I get overall with what you are saying, you unfortunately ended with hyperbole. Dallas certainly does a have better comprehensive plan and does things less organically than Houston (which can be a pro/con). However, lets not act like Dallas is head and shoulders, if even better than, Houston in a majority of "urbanity statistics."

Both cities have a lot going on in their respective cores and have invested in new infrastructure.

You're right. I had a typo in my last sentence. A simple look at the aerial maps on google exhibits the different patterns of development. While Houston has no zoning and works with deed restrictions in certain neighborhoods, Dallas works with overlays / urban planners and zoning to determine floor to area ratios, streetscapes, types of uses adjacent to one another...etc. Take a look at the aerials of Midtown Houston compared to Uptown Dallas to get a real sense of my point. These two areas are immediately adjacent to their respective downtowns. Don't get me wrong, Houston has some great projects going on. The way the two cities develop are different, and the base line is one having zoning while the other does not.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by TTU Arch

You're right. I had a typo in my last sentence. A simple look at the aerial maps on google exhibits the different patterns of development. While Houston has no zoning and works with deed restrictions in certain neighborhoods, Dallas works with overlays / urban planners and zoning to determine floor to area ratios, streetscapes, types of uses adjacent to one another...etc. Take a look at the aerials of Midtown Houston compared to Uptown Dallas to get a real sense of my point. These two areas are immediately adjacent to their respective downtowns. Don't get me wrong, Houston has some great projects going on. The way the two cities develop are different, and the base line is one having zoning while the other does not.

Houston's DT and Midtown is quite a bit geographically larger than Dallas's DT and Uptown. When looking at density stats Dallas does have greater density immediately adjacent to DT, while Houston is consistently denser outside the immediate downtown core. It's just a bit more complicated than zoning vs non-zoning. Houston has no zoning, yet every single project under construction and proposed DT or Midtown is adjacent or several blocks away from Main St line. The aerials are already outdated. The interesting thing about Midtown is the light rail had the effect of jacking up land prices next to rail, which had the affect of them being the final lots to be developed.

[eburress]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

The interesting thing about Midtown is the light rail had the effect of jacking up land prices next to rail, which had the affect of them being the final lots to be developed.

How funny! Normally I would expect those lots to be the first to be developed, but I wonder if it's almost good for Houston that they're lasting, assuming that what eventually is developed there is going to be bigger/grander than what would have come in the initial waves of development.

[TTU Arch]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Houston's DT and Midtown is quite a bit geographically larger than Dallas's DT and Uptown. When looking at density stats Dallas does have greater density immediately adjacent to DT, while Houston is consistently denser outside the immediate downtown core. It's just a bit more complicated than zoning vs non-zoning. Houston has no zoning, yet every single project under construction and proposed DT or Midtown is adjacent or several blocks away from Main St line. The aerials are already outdated. The interesting thing about Midtown is the light rail had the effect of jacking up land prices next to rail, which had the affect of them being the final lots to be developed.

True the aerials they are not real time, but its a snap shot and they are updated on avg every couple of years. Not a decade, and still illustrates very clearly my point. (Camden's development looks promising.) We use those maps quite a bit on projects / site analysis as well as shared plans b/w developers. In regards to the every single project under construction in Houston on a rail line....not true. Know of and involved in 'urban' high dense developments where there is no rail line or planned rail line.

The whole point of me bringing up zoning was to someone saying they are a little jealous of 50 story towers being built in Houston and not Dallas. Dallas develops differently from Houston. Zoning is the biggest playing factor in that, because it keeps in check what can and cannot be built in geographic areas of the city while setting standards. (Will not begin to explain the process that is involved in determining zoning for any one area) Dallas developers work with in overlays / zoning that are geared to building neighborhoods. Don't understand the need to tear apart one sentence at a time or split hairs.....

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by eburress

How funny! Normally I would expect those lots to be the first to be developed, but I wonder if it's almost good for Houston that they're lasting, assuming that what eventually is developed there is going to be bigger/grander than what would have come in the initial waves of development.

Real estate speculation caused the land to rise alongside the Main St. under its construction and after. It's mostly the same stuff being developed, apartments and retail.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by TTU Arch

True the aerials they are not real time, but its a snap shot and they are updated on avg every couple of years. Not a decade, and still illustrates very clearly my point. (Camden's development looks promising.) We use those maps quite a bit on projects / site analysis as well as shared plans b/w developers.

There a handful of lots that have been developed since then. Also, looking at the aerial, as I mentioned above, a lot of the underutilized areas are by rail.

In regards to the every single project under construction in Houston on a rail line....not true. Know of and involved in 'urban' high dense developments where there is no rail line or planned rail line.

I stated in dt or midtown, but if you know of some projects I don't then please share!

The whole point of me bringing up zoning was to someone saying they are a little jealous of 50 story towers being built in Houston and not Dallas. Dallas develops differently from Houston. Zoning is the biggest playing factor in that, because it keeps in check what can and cannot be built in geographic areas of the city while setting standards. (Will not begin to explain the process that is involved in determining zoning for any one area) Dallas developers work with in overlays / zoning that are geared to building neighborhoods. Don't understand the need to tear apart one sentence at a time or split hairs.....

The interesting thing, even without zoning, Houston has still managed to develop a large urban core with dense employment centers all within a 5 mile radius. The "free market" can do interesting things.

Dallas certainly does look more well planned and polished. The one thing I wish Houston would do is better streetscapes. Personally, I like the organic, gritty vibe of Houston, but I'm bias.

[Dallas Snob]

I never said I was "jealous"...please do not misquote. You are coming off as a know-it-all who has a difficult time with other people stating their opinion. If it is contrary to yours, you call them "negative". Reminds me of people that are called racist if they disagree with Obama. This is a friendly forum that is meant to provide discussion and details of projects, but in a respectful way. Please try to be respectful of people's opinions. We can all contribute without being harrased.

The whole point of me bringing up zoning was to someone saying they are a little jealous of 50 story towers being built in Houston and not Dallas. Dallas develops differently from Houston. Zoning is the biggest playing factor in that, because it keeps in check what can and cannot be built in geographic areas of the city while setting standards. (Will not begin to explain the process that is involved in determining zoning for any one area) Dallas developers work with in overlays / zoning that are geared to building neighborhoods. Don't understand the need to tear apart one sentence at a time or split hairs.....[/QUOTE]

[Owlhorn]

There is plenty of development going on in the nation's number one job creating metro.

[TTU Arch]

Developer behind Stoneleigh condo tower finally revealed as buyer of Statler Hilton
http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2013/1...evealed-as-buyer-of-statler-hilton.html/

By Robert Wilonsky

"...“The plan right now is for the Statler to be converted into a hotel and high-end residential with a very small retail component on the first floor,” said Wood. “It’s a fabulous project.”..."