Downtown Vancouver Updates

[city guy]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

I find it odd to see how many people dislike his projects. I find it incredibly refreshing to see some variety in this city. There are so many other buildings out there that are garbage designs, even new ones being proposed, I find it surprising that this one gets picked on.

its tacky, ill-proportioned, incredibly pretentious

[easy as pie]

hah, like, yeah, if you can't immediately identify everything that's wrong with that building, i'm not really sure why you'd be active on an urbanism/architecture/development/engineering board. like, on every plan, it's a disgrace. you have a building, the basic form of which is ludicrously underbuilt and anti-urban, you have a design team (i.e. this joker schouw) who has somehow managed to synthesize the tattiest aspects of local funeral home building (roman references, odd recesses for effect, low rise, gothic transitions), the points and columns that could very well have could out of a chinese theme park (and definitely look like they do), your textbook street de-activation with - of course - your shrubbery or whatever it'll end up being, your pastiche of materials and styles, your utterly shameless appeal to the exodus chinese types who want suburbanism within a fashionable postal code, like, need i go on?

this is almost certainly the worst thing going up/up in vancouver, and i think it's fairly straight-forward that a pro-development forum would be precisely to place where it would be ridiculed and derided for what it is: the antithesis of smart, subtle, design-forward development.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by easy as pie

hah, like, yeah, if you can't immediately identify everything that's wrong with that building, i'm not really sure why you'd be active on an urbanism/architecture/development/engineering board. like, on every plan, it's a disgrace...

Hmmm, I think wrenegade has alot of experience in that area if I remember correctly. Like him, I applaud Boffo's attempt to do something different, but it seems to me something is not quite right about their stuff.

I prefer that forgotten little Nineties condo/office bulding at Howe & Helmcken if one's doing something in that vein:



from vancouverofficespace.com

[logan5]

Originally Posted by easy as pie

hah, like, yeah, if you can't immediately identify everything that's wrong with that building, i'm not really sure why you'd be active on an urbanism/architecture/development/engineering board. like, on every plan, it's a disgrace. you have a building, the basic form of which is ludicrously underbuilt and anti-urban, you have a design team (i.e. this joker schouw) who has somehow managed to synthesize the tattiest aspects of local funeral home building (roman references, odd recesses for effect, low rise, gothic transitions), the points and columns that could very well have could out of a chinese theme park (and definitely look like they do), your textbook street de-activation with - of course - your shrubbery or whatever it'll end up being, your epastich of materials and styles, your utterly shameless appeal to the exodus chinese types who want suburbanism within a fashionable postal code, like, need i go on?

this is almost certainly the worst thing going up/up in vancouver, and i think it's fairly straight-forward that a pro-development forum would be precisely to place where it would be ridiculed and derided for what it is: the antithesis of smart, subtle, design-forward development.

Not sure how you can denounce this place so badly, without saying a word on all the sterile looking glass spandrel and metal cladding designs that are all the rage in SEFC. The white marble glass displays are for art exhibits. A pretty decent way to engage the pedestrian? No?

Just to get where you're coming from, what is a superior architectural design to this? There looks to be 2 (high end) materials in play here. And tell me why Grace 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵, because you keep avoiding that question. There's something you're not telling us.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by spm2013

You guys will love it when it's fully finished:

Not that this is a bad thing: it looks like an institutional sort of building one might find in mid-town of a big city - a church, a library, a legal building, or such. It is VERY different from it's neighbours, and people may be reacting subconsciously to this "jarring" effect, but it's not tall, not overpowering, certainly different, and seems to make for a lot of opinions.
At first, I thought "YUCK." Now I think, "HEY, WAIT ... PERHAPS NOT BAD ..."

[Bankview]

Yaletown

They seem to be repainting Chateau Granville? Does anyone have some information on the extent of these exterior renovations?

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this...

I found the blunt brutalism of this hotel quite appealing, nevertheless, the building was incredibly worn and dreary looking in its poorly maintained state. But, I sense that simply painting over the concrete is a poor solution to the problems it faced.

I found these images on on the Chateau Granville twitter feed.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by easy as pie

hah, like, yeah, if you can't immediately identify everything that's wrong with that building, i'm not really sure why you'd be active on an urbanism/architecture/development/engineering board. like, on every plan, it's a disgrace. you have a building, the basic form of which is ludicrously underbuilt and anti-urban, you have a design team (i.e. this joker schouw) who has somehow managed to synthesize the tattiest aspects of local funeral home building (roman references, odd recesses for effect, low rise, gothic transitions), the points and columns that could very well have could out of a chinese theme park (and definitely look like they do), your textbook street de-activation with - of course - your shrubbery or whatever it'll end up being, your pastiche of materials and styles, your utterly shameless appeal to the exodus chinese types who want suburbanism within a fashionable postal code, like, need i go on?

this is almost certainly the worst thing going up/up in vancouver, and i think it's fairly straight-forward that a pro-development forum would be precisely to place where it would be ridiculed and derided for what it is: the antithesis of smart, subtle, design-forward development.

I've mentioned this before with regards to this project, but don't blame the urban form on the architect/developer. It meets the zoning bylaw for a site of that size in the Downtown South neighbourhood. If you have a problem with the density and height, direct your complaints to the planning department at city hall. Also, the "textbook street deactivation" is no different on this project than any number of townhouse anchored towers anywhere else in Yaletown and Downtown South. Helmcken and Hornby are both not strong retail streets.

As for the design itself, I suppose it's personal preference. I like the Iliad, I like the Grace and the Drake and I like this project. I've heard some of the buildings (the Grace specifically) have some shortcomings on the interiors, but there are many many buildings that have that issue. I have a much bigger issue with a building like the Mark, a 400' eyesore of clear glass, sharp angles and spandrel panels. I honestly don't care that the height and density is much larger on that building, yes it makes sense for the location but I think it could have been executed much better. I also take issue with Wall's tower at Drake & Richards, specifically the south facade that has a 400' exposed concrete wall at the lane, 100' of which will protrude above the adjacent building and will be revealed to everyone in South False Creek as the site abuts a view cone.

I am not pro-development for the sake of development. I like to see good, interesting design accompany that development, and that doesn't necessarily mean everything must be made of glass and concrete and be 400'+ tall.

[Built Form]

Signage for Old Navy going up today. Smaller than I thought but it will add more neon to the street.

pic by Built Form

[Prometheus]

Thanks for the update. Do you have a shot that shows the building as a whole?

[s211]

I'm hearing through the grapevine that the office tenant for this project has pulled back and will be putting a bunch of the office space back on the market.

[rsxstock]

old navy still exist?

[ckkelley]

Nice to see Artemisia coming along. I think it's a pretty decent building on a quiet corner of downtown. The vitriol I find to be quite confounding.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by ckkelley

Nice to see Artemisia coming along. I think it's a pretty decent building on a quiet corner of downtown.

It's not a quiet corner of downtown, as if such a thing really exists anyway. It's kitty corner to One Wall Centre, directly adjacent to two commercial office buildings and a stones throw from Burrard Street and St. Paul's hospital. It's as downtownish as it gets, save the central business district.

[ckkelley]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

It's not a quiet corner of downtown.

I lived at the The Canadian for five years and spent loads of time out on the street in front of the building. People would regularly comment how quiet they thought the street was and I wholeheartedly concurred. If you want to believe otherwise, be my guest.

[Prometheus]

I've spent loads of time there too. St. Paul's probably has the busiest emergency room in Western Canada and with all the ambulances taking off and arriving just 50 metres away, it's probably noisier than most places downtown, including the central business district, especially at night.

[ckkelley]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I've spent loads of time there too. St. Paul's probably has the busiest emergency room in Western Canada and with all the ambulances taking off and arriving just 50 metres away, it's probably noisier than most places downtown, including the central business district, especially at night.

Well as a casual observer you would certainly know that better than someone that lived there.

"it's *probably* noisier". Looks like you're wavering on that position now.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

I've spent loads of time there too. St. Paul's probably has the busiest emergency room in Western Canada and with all the ambulances taking off and arriving just 50 metres away, it's probably noisier than most places downtown, including the central business district, especially at night.

Ambulance noise is a funny thing. I lived at the 501, facing north, and there's an ambulance bay on the same block of Richards. They used to turn out there but rarely turn on their sirens until they got going. I didn't hear much of anything.

Now I live in Yaletown and my window unit faces both Pacific Blvd and the Cambie St bridge. There are a ton of ambulances (and fire trucks, etc) that use Pacific to get where they are going, and scream across the Cambie St. bridge to and from VGH.

I guess my point is that you really need to spend some time in a particular area to know the routines and what you can expect from a noise perspective, not just assume noise because you see a red hospital sign.

p.s. Surrey's ER is the busiest in BC by far. St. Paul's might not even be second.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by ckkelley

Well as a casual observer you would certainly know that better than someone that lived there.

I already indicated I'm not a casual observer. I have intimate knowledge of that corner. My girlfriend lived in the southwest corner of the Imperial Tower for two years and I spent countless nights there. It's noisy. The frequent ambulance noise from St. Paul's was a constant nuisance and is why she eventually left.

It's just false to describe Helmcken & Hornby as a "quiet" corner of downtown. It's not.

[Denscity]

I think its "quiet" as far as pedestrian or even vehicular traffic but not quiet as far as sound goes.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Denscity

I think its "quiet" as far as pedestrian or even vehicular traffic but not quiet as far as sound goes.

I agree, as far as downtown is concerned, that would be considered a quiet corner, flanked by busier streets on Burrard and Howe. That is why the city turned Hornby to include biking lanes because of a relatively low vehicular traffic volume. Not many people walk along that street in that area due to a lack of retailing.