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  #9021  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 12:46 AM
sayitaintso sayitaintso is offline
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
Old Philadelphia Stock Exchange (1900 Market) redevelopment

Meh. 1900 was meant to be a placeholder 30 years ago because the Nimbys in the WPH didn't want their views blocked. It was cheaply built as a suburban-like lowrise with the intent that 10-15 years later something substantial would be built. More reinvestment in the existing structure is disappointing leading me to believe that this placeholder will be an eyesore for years to come.
     
     
  #9022  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 1:40 AM
Kidphilly Kidphilly is offline
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Renders should be released to the public soon of the 23rd and Arch Riverside development. Saw them today. They are pretty nice.

Also, expect a second large residential development to be announced shortly in Center City.

1528 Cherry Street (the lot behind the new Family Court building and 1515 Arch) has a 19 story tower propsed for it. We're thinking office, but it may be residential as well.

Lastly, PMC Property Group (developed 2040 Market and developing 1900 Arch) is proposing a 26 story tower at 23rd and Cherry parking lot
Would be good news on these. I assume the 23/Cherry is the lot where the sign has shown townhomes to be developed starting in the 800"s if my mememory serves correct.

This whole stretch from 19th to the river could seem some major changes upcoming - also whatever happens on the South side of the 2200 block of Market and that last lot on the North side of Market - someone please...
     
     
  #9023  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 1:43 AM
Kidphilly Kidphilly is offline
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Also Can anyone ever do anything with this

Both sides (tear down that — off 22nd) - This could be so much more today, its like Valley Forge Towers meeting the Ben Franklin Parkway

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=23rd+and+...t,+Philadelphia,+Pennsylvania+19103&z=18
     
     
  #9024  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 2:09 AM
Kidphilly Kidphilly is offline
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Also just heard from a senior person at JLL that lots of funding discusions in the real estate bizz around this property - I personally trust this person (while not directly related to this particuilar project they generally have very good info) and hope a new large scale project is very close to being announced
     
     
  #9025  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 3:35 AM
Philly Fan Philly Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by PhiLaw View Post
Axalta (correct?)
     
     
  #9026  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 3:57 AM
Jelly Roll Jelly Roll is offline
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
Renders should be released to the public soon of the 23rd and Arch Riverside development. Saw them today. They are pretty nice.

Also, expect a second large residential development to be announced shortly in Center City.

1528 Cherry Street (the lot behind the new Family Court building and 1515 Arch) has a 19 story tower proposed for it. We're thinking office, but it may be residential as well.

Lastly, PMC Property Group (developed 2040 Market and developing 1900 Arch) is proposing a 26 story tower at 23rd and Cherry parking lot
That should add a lot of density to Census Tract 3. I was very surprised that as of 2010 this tract was only at 14,968.2 ppsm.
     
     
  #9027  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 4:39 AM
rricci rricci is offline
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23rd and Arch Riverside

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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
The renders I saw had two towers. One approx 30+ floors, one approx 20+ floors. Also a parking garage covered by rowhomes similar to the Edgewater development. Didn't have time to count exact floors.
Summers, were these residential towers or commercial towers? While I am beyond thrilled to see that eyesore of a parking lot disappear, it seems a shame that the land can't be used for a "waterfront" commercial area of restaurants and shops a la the Pittsburgh Waterfront Square, with perhaps some residential peppered in. This area would be especially nice for dining, especially with the budding UC skyline providing a nice backdrop to the river and easy access to SRT for an after dinner stroll.
     
     
  #9028  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 4:42 AM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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Originally Posted by rricci View Post
Summers, were these residential towers or commercial towers? While I am beyond thrilled to see that eyesore of a parking lot disappear, it seems a shame that the land can't be used for a "waterfront" commercial area of restaurants and shops a la the Pittsburgh Waterfront Square, with perhaps some residential peppered in. This area would be especially nice for dining, especially with the budding UC skyline providing a nice backdrop to the river and easy access to SRT for an after dinner stroll.
From my understanding, commercial space and possibly office space have indeed been added to the project.
     
     
  #9029  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 8:15 AM
mPhilly mPhilly is offline
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Originally Posted by PhiLaw View Post
The other poster's description about his morning commutes to NYC is true. But he is staring through the barrel of a — so hard he can't see the — itself.
This neither makes sense nor adds to any logical argument.

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Originally Posted by PhiLaw View Post
Indeed, NYC and environs have demand for passenger trains. But on balance, the US demand for this service is very weak.We have to look at proportions. Asking a National Legislature (therefore, ALL citizens of the US)to pay for the unique commuting habits of various metro areas in our country is not good policy. A bit of a nudge from a consortium of NY,NJ, PA and CT may be prudent - but forcing coal miners in WV to is not.
You just admitted there was demand for it, which contradicts your previous post. As for the national legislature paying for something that affects the "unique commuting habits of various metro areas in our country"... Congress does this ALL THE TIME. In fact, Congress often pays for much narrower projects than this one that would provide interstate commerce through at the very least 3 states (does the Big Dig ring any bells? You think NJ is the one paying for the majority of the expansions to the Turnpike?). You seem to be missing the point of our government, or at least the way it has operated for well over 200 years.

Furthermore, the Philly to NYC metro corridor makes up a sizable percentage of the US population, add DC to Boston and its even more significant. To say coal miners in WV don't have an interest in this is both besides the point and wrong. What's good for NYC is indeed good for WV. Anyway, I'd hazard a guess that WV sees a greater return on its federal income tax dollars than do NY or PA (I say this because by each state having 2 senators regardless of population, less populated states usually receive more federal aid per capita). What you seem to be advocating is a step back from the federal system, presumably because you feel for the poor miners in WV, who undoubtedly benefit from it at least as much as we do.
     
     
  #9030  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
The renders I saw had two towers. One approx 30+ floors, one approx 20+ floors. Also a parking garage covered by rowhomes similar to the Edgewater development. Didn't have time to count exact floors.
Lots of challenges building on that lot-- It was a freight yard for a really long time so there might be some contamination. Also, the NIMBYs in the surrounding blocks are have both the money and connections to fight any development they don't like.
     
     
  #9031  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 1:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mPhilly View Post
This neither makes sense nor adds to any logical argument.



You just admitted there was demand for it, which contradicts your previous post. As for the national legislature paying for something that affects the "unique commuting habits of various metro areas in our country"... Congress does this ALL THE TIME. In fact, Congress often pays for much narrower projects than this one that would provide interstate commerce through at the very least 3 states (does the Big Dig ring any bells? You think NJ is the one paying for the majority of the expansions to the Turnpike?). You seem to be missing the point of our government, or at least the way it has operated for well over 200 years.

Furthermore, the Philly to NYC metro corridor makes up a sizable percentage of the US population, add DC to Boston and its even more significant. To say coal miners in WV don't have an interest in this is both besides the point and wrong. What's good for NYC is indeed good for WV. Anyway, I'd hazard a guess that WV sees a greater return on its federal income tax dollars than do NY or PA (I say this because by each state having 2 senators regardless of population, less populated states usually receive more federal aid per capita). What you seem to be advocating is a step back from the federal system, presumably because you feel for the poor miners in WV, who undoubtedly benefit from it at least as much as we do.
This is going to sound counterintuitive for a second, but Amtrak tickets in the northeast are so expensive /because/ there is so much demand.

The Acela is a profitable route for Amtrak - it brings in more than it costs to operate. The Northeast routes subsidize other routes in the Amtrak system. There are no annual operating dollars flowing from the Feds to the Northeast routes. (Note: Capital dollars are a different animal altogether.)

The Acela is profitable because demand is very very high. So high in fact, that there is not enough capacity on the current trains. To limit overcrowding and to keep profits up, Amtrak increases the prices of tickets. The Acela market can bear the extra cost while leaving the trains full and profitable.
     
     
  #9032  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 1:42 PM
ILovePhilly ILovePhilly is offline
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This is going to sound counterintuitive for a second, but Amtrak tickets in the northeast are so expensive /because/ there is so much demand.

The Acela is a profitable route for Amtrak - it brings in more than it costs to operate. The Northeast routes subsidize other routes in the Amtrak system. There are no annual operating dollars flowing from the Feds to the Northeast routes. (Note: Capital dollars are a different animal altogether.)

The Acela is profitable because demand is very very high. So high in fact, that there is not enough capacity on the current trains. To limit overcrowding and to keep profits up, Amtrak increases the prices of tickets. The Acela market can bear the extra cost while leaving the trains full and profitable.
That is exactly the reason tickets are so expensive. That's why in the reply to the first question about price I said one way to bring down ticket prices would be to increase capacity. The Regional and the Acela trains are profitable, and just like everything else in America the cities are subsidizing the country. Congress won't give Amtrak the money it needs to run effectively and does not allow Amtrak to cut long distance routes that serve the countryside where so many Senators' electoral base is. Amtrak was set up to fail so that the President could just get rid of pesky trains altogether and it is still suffering the effects of those intentions today.

People get so twisted about direct "subsidies" (operating assistance) to Amtrak because it feels like the other modes aren't getting subsidies because it says "Amtrak" in the budget but it doesn't say "Delta Airlines" or "General Motors" or "Good Year Tires". And the one time it did say "General Motors" the country had a complete freak out about it. Trains don't operate in a free market, but neither to cars or airlines. All transportation needs to be considered a public good.
     
     
  #9033  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mPhilly View Post
This neither makes sense nor adds to any logical argument.



You just admitted there was demand for it, which contradicts your previous post. As for the national legislature paying for something that affects the "unique commuting habits of various metro areas in our country"... Congress does this ALL THE TIME. In fact, Congress often pays for much narrower projects than this one that would provide interstate commerce through at the very least 3 states (does the Big Dig ring any bells? You think NJ is the one paying for the majority of the expansions to the Turnpike?). You seem to be missing the point of our government, or at least the way it has operated for well over 200 years.

Furthermore, the Philly to NYC metro corridor makes up a sizable percentage of the US population, add DC to Boston and its even more significant. To say coal miners in WV don't have an interest in this is both besides the point and wrong. What's good for NYC is indeed good for WV. Anyway, I'd hazard a guess that WV sees a greater return on its federal income tax dollars than do NY or PA (I say this because by each state having 2 senators regardless of population, less populated states usually receive more federal aid per capita). What you seem to be advocating is a step back from the federal system, presumably because you feel for the poor miners in WV, who undoubtedly benefit from it at least as much as we do.
Of course my metaphor was logical. I was expressing that the poster was confining his analysis of demand for public trains to his every-day perceptions - namely, his morning commute to Manhattan. The point is, if you zoom out - outside of the northeast corridor, you see the rest of the country, which does not have nearly the same demand as we do in the northeast.

Of course I admitted there was demand for it - that demand is present means nothing. What really matters is the quantum of demand - how much demand is there. My position is that there is not yet enough demand on a national scale for every tax payer to pay for it.

And just because Congress pays for similar projects all the time, doesn't mean we should do more of it. If you begin walking through an inferno, I would suggest doing an about-face instead of continuing with your trip.

The N/E corridor is about 42 million people (and I'm being Liberal with that number). That is undoubtedly a huge number. But the US population is 315 million - a much larger number. If demand is concentrated within these 42 million people, why not subscribe to my view that an inter-state consortium can provide the funding? If demand is so high, it should be viable.

It is easy to pick out market failures - but everybody always ignores the government failures. Namely, taking money from one end of the economy (which would, in part, form capital to fund ventures with lots of demand behind it) and shifting it to another.
     
     
  #9034  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 2:00 PM
MSFHQ MSFHQ is offline
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Could someone explain to me what "expensive" is? Seems relative.

Bus to NYC - $10-15 bucks
Amtrak to NYC - $50-75 bucks
Fly - real expensive ($750 on a Monday)


So Amtrak is pretty damn cheap. Not sure how cheap it needs to be to make people happy. Either way if you want to complain about the price of tickets then complain that the NE corridor pays for the rest of Amtrak that services the middle of nowhere.

Europe has high density, something that the US doesn't see outside of the NE corridor. Ridership continues to increase.

I'd love to see all trains become Acella, but I really don't see the issue. At least not something we need to spend more money on.
     
     
  #9035  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MSFHQ View Post
Could someone explain to me what "expensive" is? Seems relative.

Bus to NYC - $10-15 bucks
Amtrak to NYC - $50-75 bucks
Fly - real expensive ($750 on a Monday)


So Amtrak is pretty damn cheap. Not sure how cheap it needs to be to make people happy. Either way if you want to complain about the price of tickets then complain that the NE corridor pays for the rest of Amtrak that services the middle of nowhere.

Europe has high density, something that the US doesn't see outside of the NE corridor. Ridership continues to increase.

I'd love to see all trains become Acella, but I really don't see the issue. At least not something we need to spend more money on.
As an aside, Europe's petrol prices area almost double of the U.S. Some of their taxes are over 50% on petrol. Consequently, Amtrak saw a substantial increase in ridership due to a spike in the past high fuel cost.
     
     
  #9036  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 2:22 PM
ILovePhilly ILovePhilly is offline
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Originally Posted by MSFHQ View Post
Could someone explain to me what "expensive" is? Seems relative.

Bus to NYC - $10-15 bucks
Amtrak to NYC - $50-75 bucks
Fly - real expensive ($750 on a Monday)


So Amtrak is pretty damn cheap. Not sure how cheap it needs to be to make people happy. Either way if you want to complain about the price of tickets then complain that the NE corridor pays for the rest of Amtrak that services the middle of nowhere.

Europe has high density, something that the US doesn't see outside of the NE corridor. Ridership continues to increase.

I'd love to see all trains become Acella, but I really don't see the issue. At least not something we need to spend more money on.
The issue with tickets is that Regional tickets can cost more than $100 just for NYP-PHL and Acela ticket can go up to $167. Even a $75 ticket is well out of reach of many people. Studies have shown that when travel is cheaper people more personal visits and trips, and when people take trips they spend more than they would have if they had stayed in their own town. Studies have also shown that by decreasing time and speed it affects the way people think about the spatial relationship between the two places and increases travel across all modes. A faster train can mean that more people make the 'yes' decision to travel between two cities, even though they might not take the train.

The major issue with ticket prices is for businesses. A $200 round trip to New York? That's very expensive. It limits face-to-face communication between business people which is also shown to increase relationship building, spending, economic activity, and economic growth. The lesser the friction between places in time and money the greater the number of economic connection and the greater the multiplier of economic activity. More connectivity does equal a greater volume of economic growth, independent of the city's self contained growth. In terms of Philadelphia, the issue with ticket prices is that it holds back the business connections to New York city and makes it harder for Philadelphia to capitalize on its position as a cheaper, smaller, nearby city for people looking to make some savings over the cost of rent in New York City by spreading back office work out. By international standards $75 for a 90 mile journey is expensive.

I would love to see the Northeast Corridor stop subsidizing Amtrak routes in the midwest and south and I would love to see ticket prices come down in the Northeast. Politically speaking, the best way to lower ticket prices in the northeast would be to have congress subsidize the sparser routes more directly.
     
     
  #9037  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 3:40 PM
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Just to chime in about Amtrak. My wife's family lives in Connecticut and when we drive it is usually through upper Manhattan and the Bronx, not a fun trip to say the least. But when you look at the alternative of paying $100-150 (for two people) for Amtrak (even more on holidays when we are typically going up) it can get very expensive very quickly and financially it makes more sense to drive. which drives me crazy because I'd rather be reading on a train than cursing at some guy who just cut me off. So I feel there is a huge market out there that would use the train if the cost of tickets were reduced by a quarter.

Thoughts on all this development excitement. All of this development sounds amazing but I'm tempering my expectations after the last boom left only say 25% of the buildings completed. But still, even if just the Comcast buildings get built it seems center city will be changing drastically again. I'm also excited to see that pretty much all lots within a stones throw of suburban station will then be developed. Maybe building over the rail yards near 30th street isn't so far off in the distance? I'm not talking about all the way to spring garden, but perhaps a couple next to cira. I would rather see market east, Franklin square and Chinatown north/north broad develop more before the rail yards do. However, no developer cares about my preferences .

I'm also really surprised by how much potential office/commercial development is in the works/rumored. I know we have a shortage of space but we also have expensive construction costs that would lead me to believe we'd never see commercial buildings without subsidies or Comcast. Needless to say, I'm excited what will shake out in the next few months!
     
     
  #9038  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 4:05 PM
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Rumors about Rumors...Has B. Love got something here? He broke the news on the big one.
http://hiddencityphila.org/2013/09/a-foster-for-philadelphia/.
Anyone have something more in depth about a possible comcast expansion?
     
     
  #9039  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 4:15 PM
Jelly Roll Jelly Roll is offline
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Originally Posted by rack776 View Post
Rumors about Rumors...Has B. Love got something here? He broke the news on the big one.
http://hiddencityphila.org/2013/09/a-foster-for-philadelphia/.
Anyone have something more in depth about a possible comcast expansion?
Starts here http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=173431&page=443
     
     
  #9040  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2013, 5:44 PM
mPhilly mPhilly is offline
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Originally Posted by PhiLaw View Post
Of course my metaphor was logical. I was expressing that the poster was confining his analysis of demand for public trains to his every-day perceptions - namely, his morning commute to Manhattan. The point is, if you zoom out - outside of the northeast corridor, you see the rest of the country, which does not have nearly the same demand as we do in the northeast.
Okay, fine fine it's obvious neither of us are getting anywhere. I'll only say this: This entire time we've all been talking about the Northeast corridor, not the rest of the country. I've never heard a proposal to turn all of Amtrak's routes into high speed rail, so not sure why you keep harping on that. Also, we use names on this site so you don't have to address me as "the poster" every time you reply to what I say.
     
     
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