Canada's 50 Tallest Proposals

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Ramako

So can we assume that this is being built on spec? I'd have thought that they'd have announced an anchor tenant if they were ready to build.

I don't know Allied's next step. I am versed in the permit process and suggested the next likely step. With that said, a number of projects had equipment on site before an announcement in regards to a lead was made.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Play devil's advocate and state that while the Toronto economy is not great, possible going downhill at the present; However data, storage, networking, back up, and communications is nothing but a major growth industry moving forward. The ability to maximize the returns on an already solid real estate play/ business model seems to be in the works at this location.

46 storey should top a million square feet. That is a lot of space for a data centre.

Thr economy is hard to guage right now. While some companies are restructuring and laying off people others are hiring like crazy. The demand for new lower cost space compared to older stock is still very high.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

46 storey should top a million square feet. That is a lot of space for a data centre.

Thr economy is hard to guage right now. While some companies are restructuring and laying off people others are hiring like crazy. The demand for new lower cost space compared to older stock is still very high.

Actually my thinking was, that the profits from the data centre might be able to finance/subsidize the office tower, and thus use the additional space as a loss leader for offering additional services to their existing clients at the data centre.

For sure this tower is not moving on spec, I'm just trying to figure out some reasoning behind an early push to develop the site.

[Southcore]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

IMO there is no way 171 is moving forward on spec, it would be absolutely insane.

There are very few large tenants on the market and millions of SF still unaccouted for in the new builds, let alone the staggering amount of backfill needed to patch up the existing buildings.

There is a slight possibility one more building will go this cycle, but I doubt it will be 171 and I doubt we'll see another major commercial tower break ground in the core in the next 5 years.

I'm not particularity bearish on the toronto economy, but we just have a lot of unspoken for space to fill before a new round of new builds hit the dirt. This kind of cycle is pretty standard in a healthy commercial market.

While not a top 50 proposal, nor a 1M+ sq ft tower, what will become of 16 York?

[taal]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

IMO there is no way 171 is moving forward on spec, it would be absolutely insane.

There are very few large tenants on the market and millions of SF still unaccouted for in the new builds, let alone the staggering amount of backfill needed to patch up the existing buildings.

There is a slight possibility one more building will go this cycle, but I doubt it will be 171 and I doubt we'll see another major commercial tower break ground in the core in the next 5 years.

I'm not particularity bearish on the toronto economy, but we just have a lot of unspoken for space to fill before a new round of new builds hit the dirt. This kind of cycle is pretty standard in a healthy commercial market.

Yep I have to agree ... I believe they are just getting all the agreements in place so that they can move ahead at any time (not implying now). They are doing the same for their other sites on King, and those are surely even further off.

Rough unaccounted space in new developments to give folks an idea, note all of these are under construction:

RBC Place (170K ... yes not much, they recently leased a very large amount, to Cisco systems I believe [they are moving from elsewhere in the core]).

BA East (400K)

100 Adelaide (500K)

Queen Richmond Center (250K)

120 Bremner (250K)

1 York Street (660K)

King East Center (500K) - I believe they have leased something but are keeping it hush hush for now, as it seems to be under construction ?


Effectively there is also roughly 2X times this space, that's because everything already leased is generally space tenants are going to give up in older buildings ! There is very little physically space expansion ... the # of employees may grow but new offices are more efficient and there is less space per employee.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by taal

Yep I have to agree ... I believe they are just getting all the agreements in place so that they can move ahead at any time (not implying now). They are doing the same for their other sites on King, and those are surely even further off.
.

The problem with your reasoning is that building permits do expire. If there is no rush, why not rezone like the rest of their properties than apply for a building permit and hope the current zoning is good enough to get it released?

I don't know what will happen but, your making an apple to an oranges comparison.

[Lenin]

I'm not entirely sure if a) this project will be in Canada's 50 tallest proposals or b) the details have been posted here yet. But there's some exciting news for Winnipeg today, as a Toronto developer confirmed they had purchased a glaring surface parking lot in the heart of downtown, and they released a couple early stage renders. They claim it will be a new tallest for the city.

Here's a link to a WFP article, including a rendering:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/busines...-be-up-to-55-storeys-tall-222705481.html

[Innsertnamehere]

the render makes it look like around 160 meters, so it might just squeeze into the 50 tallest! Congrats Winnipeg, it's good to see the city core start to fill in all the parking lots in the downtown core.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Lenin

I'm not entirely sure if a) this project will be in Canada's 50 tallest proposals or b) the details have been posted here yet. But there's some exciting news for Winnipeg today, as a Toronto developer confirmed they had purchased a glaring surface parking lot in the heart of downtown, and they released a couple early stage renders. They claim it will be a new tallest for the city.

Here's a link to a WFP article, including a rendering:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/busines...-be-up-to-55-storeys-tall-222705481.html

I'm liking the sounds of this.
Come on Winnipeg - you can do this!

[Jeff]

never thought I would ever say this.. 55-storey proposal for Winnipeg..



credit: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/

[travis3000]

I highly doubt that another large scale commercial tower will be launched in Toronto in the next 5 years. With five 30+ storey towers currently under construction, and still millions of square feet of available office space, it simply does not make sense that another 1 million+ square feet project be added to the list. In my opinion, they are simply getting everything ready so that the minute they feel the market conditions are right, they will be ready to go. In the meantime, they can fish around for an anchor tenant, and announce it once they've found someone.

^ And PS, congrats to Winnipeg on the proposal. It's great to see some taller designs come out of the city. Here's hoping it comes to reality very soon.

[caltrane74]

Good to see a city other than Calgary or Toronto make the list.

We need some variety up in this bitch!

PS - Niagara Falls doesn't count as a real proposal until construction starts on any of its three mega towers.

[Mrs Sauga]

Wow thats a game changer. I doubt the Winnipeg proposal will remain that tall IF it does get built. I'm just pessimistic lol.

Still I rreally hope it goes through. Its great to see other cities get in on that action. Would love to see a 200m in Edmonton, and 150m in Halifax too.

BTW, Love the massing but not a fan of those blank walls. Winnipeg is like opposite of Vancouver, it actually NEEDS more glass in its skyline.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Mrs Sauga

Its great to see other cities get in on that action. Would love to see a 200m in Edmonton, and 150m in Halifax too.

I appreciate your desire for Halifax to get in on this action, but I highly doubt the downtown will ever see that much height. Firstly: Height is not always necessary for a successful core; and, actually, in instances where land is very limited and the street grid is relatively tiny -- too much height can actually create problems.

Secondly: Downtown Halifax is merged with its historical sites. Aside from the limits of height around the city's older buildings, there are several established viewplanes that guarantee segments of Halifax Harbour can be seen from the Citadel Hill. This fort, which dominates the downtown, has its superiority protected via height limits (the hill's ramparts).

All of this also acts to preserve the physical history of Halifax's core, which is essentially a bonsai cityscape. The city's core has been booming recently. In a few years aerial photos of the downtown will reveal the impressive density that's being achieved -- and in a municipality of less than half a million

150m is something I'd love to see in Halifax's North End, where there is potential for this eventually. It's a central location, near the Bedford Highway and the MacKay Bridge connecting Peninsular Halifax to Dartmouth, and has plenty of empty fields and warehouses that are ripe for redevelopment.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Mrs Sauga

BTW, Love the massing but not a fan of those blank walls. Winnipeg is like opposite of Vancouver, it actually NEEDS more glass in its skyline.

True, but Winnipeg's climate is also the exact opposite of Vancouver and will always have some play on how buildings are designed here, now and in the future. That old saying "WinterPeg", was coined for a reason.

ps: Summers are Hot and Humid but the rest of the year,well... is a different story.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

150m is something I'd love to see in Halifax's North End, where there is potential for this eventually. It's a central location, near the Bedford Highway and the MacKay Bridge connecting Peninsular Halifax to Dartmouth, and has plenty of empty fields and warehouses that are ripe for redevelopment.

I'd rather see it in the south end personally. I love the play of different scales with large towers like Fenwick and other uni residences intermixed with lowrise townhomes and midrise apartment blocks.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I'd rather see it in the south end personally. I love the play of different scales with large towers like Fenwick and other uni residences intermixed with lowrise townhomes and midrise apartment blocks.

Fair enough. Some people do want tall towers in Halifax's downtown. Most people, however, don't care enough to fight against the political groups in the city that desire to protect Halifax's historical assets.

I'm fine with the Citadel rampart height limits. I love the skyline it has created. The downtown is booming, regardless. In around a decade, the downtown will have little to no surfacing parking left available to develop, which means existing buildings will receive more redevelopment pressure -- with taller developments occurring in the North End

[Infrequent Poster]

Not to be a downer here but, that Winnipeg proposal looks to be 36 floors. I realize that the tower continues for a ways above the last visible floor, but it does not look (to me) to be the equivalent of 19 more floors. Again I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade here, it just always confuses me when the pictures dont match the stated facts.

Either way bravo Winnipeg you at the very least have a new potential tallest!

[trueviking]

podium is 9 floors, tower is thirty something...the 55 was marketing hype...its the 'height of a 55 storey building' because of the big hat....its likely that means the proposal is something like 550' tall.

[koops65]

I took a close look at the render, and the tower portion has 29 floors plus the tall box inside the crown. If that podium is 9 floors, that makes a total of 39 altogether.