LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[brudy]

Originally Posted by citywatch

that's why I think it's an overly simplistic & even incorrect POV to say that the arrival of the car & freeways made dtla increasingly obsolete, or is what really hurt it. The hood took a nosedive mainly cuz too much of it....even before burbanization became very popular & there was flight to the burbs.....was always not the nicest place to be.

Well, the idea of making Wilshire the new retail hub was specifically designed with cars in mind and to pull people and businesses out of downtown. Between that kind of individual/rich guy planning and the demise of the streetcars (brought about by the freeway system), downtown's decline as a retail hub was inevitable.

[Wilcal]

I think that the opinions so far given about the "renewed BLOC" are interesting, and I think that it is important for forumers to give more of these, the more specific the better. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ratkovich company had staff which monitors opinions on this and other sites. The forum's opinions are important because after all you all are "the downtown denizens," "the eyes and ears" of the streets who will be future patrons of this development. These released designs may be just preliminary, sort of just "trial balloon" designed to get input from the community. Wayne Ratkovich and company are noted to produce top quality work. He is not another Dr. Lee of Jamison Services (aka, semi-slumlord), or a cryptic Chetrit Group (aka, under-capitalized "bullshit artists"). I'm sure he and his company are interested in profit (most developers are), but I think that he is a little different--he earns it. What a novel concept in this day and age.

[StethJeff]

The Bloc has a more inviting entrance than Fig+7th and the Metro entrance is a nice touch so if thats all they wanted to accomplish, job well done. Unfortunately that doesn't solve the issue of the brick work, Hope, Flower, garage, 8th, and "Bloc." Leaves a lot to be desired.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

The Bloc has a more inviting entrance than Fig+7th and the Metro entrance is a nice touch so if thats all they wanted to accomplish, job well done. Unfortunately that doesn't solve the issue of the brick work, Hope, Flower, garage, 8th, and "Bloc." Leaves a lot to be desired.

Not sure what you were expecting. There are large buildings on top of it after all. They appear to be structurally changing the parts where it's physically possible to do so.

[Wilcal]

Originally Posted by HunterK

Upscale retail would be nice! It would be interesting to have a Smart&Final across the street from a Banana Republic or something similar. Very LA.

Heres the only picture I could find of the lots. It looks like they were just 1-stories and nothing too exciting. I know that entire block has been in the terrible shape its in currently since the 1940's at LEAST.

What a beauty. Relieved to see that it is still standing.

[112597jorge]

Im kind of upset about the suburban mall feel but im excited for this either way. i liked the original render, with the lush courtyard, i guess they wont be adding it, that was one of the best parts of the project. As for the brick wall, someone said it earlier, but they should cover the wall all white and on flower, hope, and 8th, paint murals and on it. it would make the black-glassed towers more eye catching, and erase the "fortress" with a new attraction that would be visited by many people. just imagine it the whole brick covered by white wall with murals. pretty cool.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by Easy

Not sure what you were expecting. There are large buildings on top of it after all. They appear to be structurally changing the parts where it's physically possible to do so.

You're right, they're doing about as much with it as they can I guess. Unfortunately, it still leaves us with a square block monolith that otherwise disrupts the urban and pedestrian experience in the middle of downtown. It's hard to shoot my pants over this project when that block's biggest deficiencies go untouched.

[alki]

I sometimes wonder on this forum if we are seeing the same thing. Macy Plaza is an existing bldg. Its difficult to modify an existing bldg when you can't go back to its structural core. Nonetheless, if the renderings are accurate, Rakovich has a gone a long way to opening up the existing plaza to 7th Street and breaking up the brick monolith that has been in place since the bldg was built.

And btw its not unheard of to have retail that doesn't all front on a street. There are many examples........Spring St Arcade, Grand Central Market, arcades in Cleveland, Baltimore, Chicago, Buffalo and NYC to name a few. Most date from the early part of the 20th century.

My only concern is what happens on Hope and Flower. Otherwise, it looks like Rakovich is on his way to hitting another home run; one that will give another significant boost to 7th Street as a shopping street.

[DtlaCuriousity]

Originally Posted by alki

I sometimes wonder on this forum if we are seeing the same thing. Macy Plaza is an existing bldg. Its difficult to modify an existing bldg when you can't go back to its structural core. Nonetheless, if the renderings are accurate, Rakovich has a gone a long way to opening up the existing plaza to 7th Street and breaking up the brick monolith that has been in place since the bldg was built.

And btw its not unheard of to have retail that doesn't all front on a street. There are many examples........Spring St Arcade, Grand Central Market, arcades in Cleveland, Baltimore, Chicago, Buffalo and NYC to name a few. Most date from the early part of the 20th century.

My only concern is what happens on Hope and Flower. Otherwise, it looks like Rakovich is on his way to hitting another home run; one that will give another significant boost to 7th Street as a shopping street.

You're right it's not unheard of, in fact it is pretty common in Los Angeles. The problem when done in an urban environment is that it can kill the immediate streetscape activity - look at Vermont/Wilshire, Los Angeles Mall, and 7th at fig to a certain extent. They suck in activity, they don't really distribute, and they ignore their surroundings. However, as long as Flower is activated here, I'm kind of looking forward to this, especially if there is a subway connection. I think the area is/will be busy enough to support this type of design.

[Mojeda101]

Rebar finally going up on 8th and Grand.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by DtlaCuriousity

You're right it's not unheard of, in fact it is pretty common in Los Angeles. The problem when done in an urban environment is that it can kill the immediate streetscape activity - look at Vermont/Wilshire, Los Angeles Mall, and 7th at fig to a certain extent. They suck in activity, they don't really distribute, and they ignore their surroundings. However, as long as Flower is activated here, I'm kind of looking forward to this, especially if there is a subway connection. I think the area is/will be busy enough to support this type of design.

You have a point, but I think this is a much bigger problem in smaller cities that have less pedestrian activity to begin with. DTLA has so much pedestrian activity that you're not going to notice a shortage of people on 7th, even if there are thousands of people inside the Bloc at one time. In NYC, I've walked past that mall at Columbus Circle (in the Time Warner Center) plenty, and never once felt like the that mall was sucking too many people off the streets.

In Minneapolis on the other hand, I totally get the impression that the streets in their downtown would be much more packed if not for their skyway system. Its a smaller city with less pedestrians to begin with, and the system is so extensive that it really is reducing the amount of activity on the street.

[Muji]

I agree with DistrictDirt. If one really had a problem with large retail complexes, then any department store would be just as bad. Shopping centers can easily complement their surrounding streets if they are in dense commercial neighborhoods that have good pedestrian and transit access. Basically, they make very efficient use of highly valuable land, and 7th St is surely able to support it. Lets not forget that 7th/Metro is the busiest station in Metro's system, and Macy's Plaza sits right on top of it. While we should be definitely be against places like the Grove, the Bloc is a completely different animal.

[Wilcal]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

Rebar finally going up on 8th and Grand.

Wonderful,
perhaps during this lengthy excavation the company has modified the design of project to be somewhat to be more appealing. Why they did not use Astani's Angelina, I don't know.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by Wilcal

Wonderful,
perhaps during this lengthy excavation the company has modified the design of project to be somewhat to be more appealing. Why they did not use Astani's Angelina, I don't know.

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

[DtlaCuriousity]

Originally Posted by DistrictDirt

You have a point, but I think this is a much bigger problem in smaller cities that have less pedestrian activity to begin with. DTLA has so much pedestrian activity that you're not going to notice a shortage of people on 7th, even if there are thousands of people inside the Bloc at one time. In NYC, I've walked past that mall at Columbus Circle (in the Time Warner Center) plenty, and never once felt like the that mall was sucking too many people off the streets.

In Minneapolis on the other hand, I totally get the impression that the streets in their downtown would be much more packed if not for their skyway system. Its a smaller city with less pedestrians to begin with, and the system is so extensive that it really is reducing the amount of activity on the street.

Sure, I don't think we are making conflicting points here. My original comment stated that I thought there was enough activity to support this desig I'm this part of dtla.

[blackcat23]

So the city released it's draft EIR studying potential uses for the Parker Center facility now that LAPD has completely left the building.

This is what we have on the table:

Rehabilitation: Under this alternative, the existing Parker Center building would be rehabilitated with various improvements including seismic retrofitting, fire safety improvements, and upgrades to ensure energy efficiency. would be reconfigured to provide office space for City employees, and rentable commercial space. The existing parking garage would be expanded to provide approximately 137 parking spaces. This alternative also includes an optional inter-building tunnel that would connect City Hall East to the rehabilitated Civic Building.

Partial Demolition, Rehabilitation, and Addition: This would include rehabilitation of a majority of the Parker Center building, similar to that of previous alternative as well as demolition of the Parker Center jail which would be replaced with an expansion building. Combined with the existing Parker Center building, the expansion would expand the gross square footage to approximately 522,255 square feet, of which approximately 16,500 square feet would be for commercial space and a child care facility. A connection between the expansion and the Parker Center building would be constructed. Approximately 328 parking spaces would be provided with this alternative. The expansion building would have a maximum height of approximately 200 feet. This also includes an optional inter-building tunnel that would connect City Hall East to the rehabilitated Civic Building.

Demolition and Build: This would result in the full demolition of the existing Parker Center building and construction of a new office building which would consist of approximately 753,730 gross square feet, and approximately 1,173 parking spaces with a maximum height of approximately 450 feet. The proposed 753,730-square-foot program could be accommodated in one or two buildings on the site. The new building(s) could take on a variety of configurations, but would generally fill the footprint of the existing Parker Center building. Outdoor open space and a pedestrian connection between City Hall to the west, and the Little Tokyo neighborhood to the east and south would be provided. This alternative also includes an optional inter‐building tunnel or bridge that would connect City Hall East to the rehabilitated Civic Building

The DEIR makes it clear that demolition and build is the city's preferred alternative, since they want to consolidate as much office space as possible. The DEIR mentions that one design option includes a 15 floor/216 foot on Los Angeles Street and a 27 floor/450 foot tower on Judge John Aliso.

Of course, no clue as to where the funding for all of this comes from.

[Wilcal]

Originally Posted by blackcat23

So the city released it's draft EIR studying potential uses for the Parker Center facility now that LAPD has completely left the building.

This is what we have on the table:



The DEIR makes it clear that demolition and build is the city's preferred alternative, since they want to consolidate as much office space as possible. The DEIR mentions that one design option includes a 15 floor/216 foot on Los Angeles Street and a 27 floor/450 foot tower on Judge John Aliso.

Of course, no clue as to where the funding for all of this comes from.

Based upon this last option, and your last (and probably correct) statement about funding, I guess that we can expect to see demolition and then the building of a parking lot which will beautify downtown for the next, say twenty years.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Ideally, the city would tear down parker center, the county would tear down the two buildings surrounding grand park and consolidate into two new buildings on the site of parker center. not holding my breath though

[DenseCityPlease]

I suspect I'll be in the minority in staking out this position, but I'd really hate to see the county buildings surrounding Grand Park be demolished. Their massing goes a long way toward spatially defining the perimeter of the park and helps to create an 'outdoor living room' with a pleasing human scale and intimacy in a part of downtown otherwise filled with monumental buildings and expansive parking lots. What's more, the symmetrical horizontality of the two buildings reinforces the visual axis running from City Hall all the way through the music center to the DWP headquarters on the opposite end. This axis is, I think, one of the more compelling urban attributes in the city and destined to become a nationally recognized symbol of both the civic center and Los Angeles in general. To demolish these buildings in order to add green space would be to confuse grandness with size, and leave the site feeling over-scaled and aimlessly expansive in a city that is already criticized for embodying those same qualities.

How about we renovate and restore the county buildings to their former glory instead, and in doing so save a bit of public funds and preserve some of our mid-century architectural heritage? With a bit of creativity, the county buildings could even be re-imagined with programmed rooftops overlooking the park and a compelling nighttime lighting scheme (I'm thinking of the recent addition of the glowing glass cube on top of the Transamerica building, for example).

Grand Park is a refreshingly cozy space in a city that's often not, and I'd hate to see it needlessly made larger when we've yet to see crowds on significant basis that fill and activate it's existing perimeter.