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  #11121  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 6:14 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
If it's true that 6000 passengers a day use cash then that works out to over $4,000 per passenger to accommodate their needs.

It will actually be less because it's not going to be exactly the same 6,000 passengers every day and therefore more people will be affected, but that gives you an idea of the order of magnitude of the issue.
That also assumes that the 6,000 are stubborn, fixed in their ways and incapable of adaptation.
     
     
  #11122  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 6:25 AM
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What is the lifespan of the current fair boxes on buses?
     
     
  #11123  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 6:45 AM
cabotp cabotp is offline
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Originally Posted by jhausner View Post
Good. Get a compass card and stop paying by loose change. I think it idiotic to spend $25 million extra to accommodate a lazy portion of our population.
I agree for those that live here that they should get a compass card.

But I do feel for tourists that will hardly use the system if ever. This will cause a problem. I'm not talking about the tourist that is planning to use transit. But the tourist that is visiting someone and this tourist decides to take a tour of the city via transit. They walk up to the bus stop and pay by cash, which is ok. But then they will be forced to pay again at the skytrain station. Now this will be a small percentage of people. But they will go back home talking stories about how they had to pay double because the system "didn't work right"
     
     
  #11124  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cabotp View Post
I agree for those that live here that they should get a compass card.

But I do feel for tourists that will hardly use the system if ever. This will cause a problem. I'm not talking about the tourist that is planning to use transit. But the tourist that is visiting someone and this tourist decides to take a tour of the city via transit. They walk up to the bus stop and pay by cash, which is ok. But then they will be forced to pay again at the skytrain station. Now this will be a small percentage of people. But they will go back home talking stories about how they had to pay double because the system "didn't work right"
As a tourist, you should be expecting to screw up and spend extra money. I do. 🞵🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 when you are some place different where you don't know the local way of doing things. You are travelling, spending hundreds on airfare and hotels, what's an extra $2.75?

You only have to spend that $2.75 once to get you to a skytrain station where you can promptly buy a Compass Card, load it up, and use it the rest of your trip here. But if someone is visiting the city and using transit, odds are a Compass card is going to be the first thing they buy when they get off the plane at the airport Canada Line station. And after that, odds are their hotel is closer to a station anyway (how many people stay at hotels in the middle of nowhere where they need to take buses to and from them?).

If the visitor is staying with someone, then the onus is on the host to help. When my parents visit me and stay at my place, I don't send them out into the world to explore on transit using cash fares, I give them freaking faresavers I have sitting around for when they visit. In the future I'll have a couple extra compass cards sitting in the drawer for guests to use (they can get a heavy workout from my parents, her parents, my siblings, her siblings, and out of town friends). But I bet my dad will want his own he can keep in his wallet for the next 15 years like that Texaco credit card.
     
     
  #11125  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 2:26 PM
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GeeCee GeeCee is offline
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With other systems with contactless card systems like London, visitors who plan on taking transit extensively usually end up getting their own cards. It's not such a huge hurdle. The information will make its way into the various city guide books and become local knowledge.

And besides, it's not like fare vendors are hard to find.
     
     
  #11126  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 5:58 PM
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xd_1771 xd_1771 is offline
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Pretty much everyone has misunderstood the situation. It's so overblown and bad enough that I decided to post a [REALITY CHECK] on my blog this morning and send it to all media outlets.

The 6,000 number describes current passengers who use that arrangement of paying cash fare for the bus and then using that ticket as SkyTrain fare proof. However, if every one of those passengers got the Compass Card, NO ONE would pay double fees.

The new Compass system will also offer the flexibility to service the low-income (proposed strategies) and tourists (tourists can buy a compass card in the same way you're encouraged to buy a Suica card if you travel to Tokyo).
     
     
  #11127  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 7:02 PM
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I am one of the 6000. I use transit about once a month or less. I pay cash from the ferry at Tsawassen to downtown by buying my 3-zone fare in coins at the terminal, and transfer at Bridgeport to Canada Line. There are a lot of people who do this.

I do not want to have yet another card in my wallet for these occasional journeys.

It is not unreasonable to expect a system that accepts cash at any of its boarding points to honor that ticket when transferring.

Translink must accommodate these customers. Its up to them to figure out how, but saying there is no solution except buying a card is not acceptable.
     
     
  #11128  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 7:39 PM
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^ It's also not unreasonable to have another card in your wallet, in comparison to a $25 million fee for a retrofit.

TransLink is accomodating you, by placing a Compass vending machine at all ferry terminals, so you can obtain a Compass card for a $6 deposit (which I'm sure is returnable) and not have to pay extra fare.
     
     
  #11129  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 8:53 PM
DKaz DKaz is offline
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That's what I think it is in the end. 24 Hours did their own poll, 13% paid by prepaid fares all the time, 24% sometimes, 63% paid cash all the time.

How interesting, transit has about a 13-15% modeshare in Vancouver. It's that 87% of the population who make up 0.5% of cash paying fares that are angry by this news.

It's not like transit vehicles will get any less crowded if we lose these people.

Hey, if my car loving brother can keep books of Faresaver tickets at home for the odd time he goes to Vancouver for a concert or hockey game and will likely carry a Compass card in the future, so can everyone else.
     
     
  #11130  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 9:28 PM
red-paladin red-paladin is offline
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I think there is confusion about the actual issue. A lot of those people are paying cash at TVMs at stations and are riled up without understanding that it's only people paying on buses that are affected.
     
     
  #11131  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itinerant View Post
I am one of the 6000. I use transit about once a month or less. I pay cash from the ferry at Tsawassen to downtown by buying my 3-zone fare in coins at the terminal, and transfer at Bridgeport to Canada Line. There are a lot of people who do this.

I do not want to have yet another card in my wallet for these occasional journeys.

It is not unreasonable to expect a system that accepts cash at any of its boarding points to honor that ticket when transferring.

Translink must accommodate these customers. Its up to them to figure out how, but saying there is no solution except buying a card is not acceptable.
I know this is very rude of me, but don't act like an idiot.

You don't have to keep a Compass card on your person 24/7 365 days a year if you only come to Vancouver once a month. Just keep it in a drawer or in a dish on a table near your door. Instead of grabbing all those coins you carry, grab your compass card. You obviously plan ahead when taking transit by making sure you have enough coins, just plan ahead and put your compass card in your pocket. Sounds easier even.

Do you carry every key you have with you every time you go out, or do you have a couple different key rings for the situation (like I don't need to carry the key to my storage locker with me when I'm going to get groceries)?

You can get on Transit with as little as 1 cent on your card, so you don't need to keep it loaded with $50 of cash or anything. Just go online before you come and load up like $10 on it (a round trip), then when you're home it is depleted and you are not losing out on opportunity value on your precious fiver. Or set it up to automatically top up with $10 when you use it. It is easier than rummaging through you couch for $11 worth of quarters for your round trip.

And take a look at your wallet. I bet you have a card in there that you use less than once a month. Take it out and replace it with the Compass card if you are worried you'll just forget it.

But you already pay with cash instead of keeping faresavers around, so why are you complaining about having to pay more? You already do. Every 4 trips you are basically throwing away the same value as 1 ticket.

Just think about what you are saying. You would rather collect change and carry around pockets full of coins, count it out and insert it into a machine, then carry around a flimsy paper ticket in your pocket that you can't fold or bend, rather than just carry around something the size of credit card, weighs next to nothing, and gets you on transit in literally a second, that costs less to use than the coins you want to use. And Translink is being stupid?

Again, I apologize for being rude. But to me this is just lazy people complaining about a cost being applied to them for being lazy so that my taxes can stay down. I understand it is an inconvenience to some people, but raising my taxes to pay for their absolute incompetence is an inconvenience to me.
     
     
  #11132  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
^ It's also not unreasonable to have another card in your wallet, in comparison to a $25 million fee for a retrofit.

TransLink is accomodating you, by placing a Compass vending machine at all ferry terminals, so you can obtain a Compass card for a $6 deposit (which I'm sure is returnable) and not have to pay extra fare.
I don't feel accommodated.

Translink's current rules of ridership provide multimodal travel within the system for a fixed period of time for the number of zones purchased. If they want to change the rules for everyone, that is ok. But they are not. They are either purposely marginalizing a 'small' group of riders who purchase their fare on the bus and want to transfer to skytrain or they made a mistake by missing this travel pattern. The problem is that they (and you) are trying to make me believe this is ok, and not offering a reasonable solution.

There is no way a solution needs to cost $25M. There are numerous suggestions from many disgruntled riders which include among them: utilizing magnetic ticket validation machines at skytrain stations; and having attendants (what do all those transit cops looking for fare evaders do now?) at stations who can visually inspect and pass riders through a manually operated gate.

I think the real problem here is that Translink is treating legitimate concerns by their customers far far too lightly.

Personally, I can change my habits and buy a Compass card that I will use to travel with. I'll put it in the stack of many other cards that I only carry with me once in a while. I am presently put off, but I can adapt.
     
     
  #11133  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 11:16 PM
memememe76 memememe76 is offline
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Seems to me the people really riled up about all this are the Compass defenders calling people who pay cash at the bus idiots.
     
     
  #11134  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2013, 12:19 AM
red-paladin red-paladin is offline
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Please keep the conversation civil, and about the policies and concepts.
Also, the conversation about the Compass card rollout needs to be moved to the Compass thread.
     
     
  #11135  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2013, 1:08 AM
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(post moved to Compass & Fare Gates Discussion thread)

Last edited by aberdeen5698; Aug 16, 2013 at 1:19 AM.
     
     
  #11136  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2013, 4:56 AM
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moving post...
     
     
  #11137  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2013, 5:17 PM
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Schedule for the 96 B-line. It will have 7/8 minute frequencies until 10:50pm and 15 minute frequencies until 1:00am
     
     
  #11138  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2013, 5:26 PM
go_leafs_go02 go_leafs_go02 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tfreder View Post
Schedule for the 96 B-line. It will have 7/8 minute frequencies until 10:50pm and 15 minute frequencies until 1:00am
Very nice frequencies. Should be highly used, bet ridership will be higher than the 97 B-Line right off the bat.
     
     
  #11139  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2013, 5:56 PM
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97 B line was always a strange situation. I visit Poco a lot and the 169 or 159 are usually the best. 169 is pretty damn fast between Coquitlam town centre and Braid, as it's almost direct there are hardly any stops. 97 B grinds slowly up and down the hill and then toodles around on guilford, etc.
     
     
  #11140  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2013, 6:35 PM
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I spotted this trolley wire de-icing truck heading west on 41st Avenue at Victoria Drive a few days ago. Notice the Brill-era pole retrievers on the back of the truck.

Once upon a time they used to temporarily equip the first trolleys out of the garage with metal brushes (instead of the normal carbon ones) to do the de-icing, but I guess this is how they're doing it now.



Picture by me.
     
     
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