Wpg: Chief Peguis Trail Extension

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Plessis is the dividing line between Winnipeg and the RM of Springfield, so yes the CP Trail could have been extended to Plessis within city limits. Anything west of Plessis is the COW.

sky,

You have been nominate to go and tell the people in the houses that their property is being expropriated for a lane widening on Plessis. They will tell you, "look at all the empty space behind that is sitting in weeds".

The solution was to wrap the roadway in a arc around the back of the Grassie development, overpass the CP mainline, Kildare extension and Regent Ave.

But Larry from Vickars met Sammy and a deal was cut. Hence, there now sits a new dealership that cuts the property right-a-way off at Regent and everything else South to Dugald has been sold.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by alittle1

sky,

You have been nominate to go and tell the people in the houses that their property is being expropriated for a lane widening on Plessis. They will tell you, "look at all the empty space behind that is sitting in weeds".

The solution was to wrap the roadway in a arc around the back of the Grassie development, overpass the CP mainline, Kildare extension and Regent Ave.

But Larry from Vickars met Sammy and a deal was cut. Hence, there now sits a new dealership that cuts the property right-a-way off at Regent and everything else South to Dugald has been sold.

I'm in agreement with your statement, trouble with Winnipeg is that there never seems to be a long term vision nor are roadways built for future growth, building for today is the norm in Winnipeg.

[original]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

I'm in agreement with your statement, trouble with Winnipeg is that there never seems to be a long term vision nor are roadways built for future growth, building for today is the norm in Winnipeg.

You mean building for the 1950's today is the norm for Winnipeg. With zero vision for future growth. Selling off land designated for future projects is the Winnipeg way

[cllew]

It's not only the city that can't see the future and gets rid of land for a quick buck.

I am sure if CP Rail could have seen the future of rail traffic, they would not have sold off the Bergen Cutoff like they did in the late 70's. They could have run all their hotshot container trains on that line and bypassed the congestion in the Winnipeg yards.

When they sold the right of way, everything was still shipped in boxcars and had to humped in the Winnipeg yards to go east or west of here.

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by cllew

It's not only the city that can't see the future and gets rid of land for a quick buck.

I am sure if CP Rail could have seen the future of rail traffic, they would not have sold off the Bergen Cutoff like they did in the late 70's. They could have run all their hotshot container trains on that line and bypassed the congestion in the Winnipeg yards.

When they sold the right of way, everything was still shipped in boxcars and had to humped in the Winnipeg yards to go east or west of here.

One of the reasons for the closure of that track was instability of the rail line due to the gravel base and width, and foundation problems of the Swing bridge over the Red River.

A CPR bypass would be better served if it was located along the North Perimeter on the south side ditch line. This was proposed back in the mid-60's, as you have noted shipping was still taking place in boxcars, etc. therefore, progress ended that idea due to the City's expansion and container shipping became the norm.

[cllew]

First I heard of the foundation problems at the river crossing, I guess even before Calgary's bridge failure, back then CP did not want to spend money to fix foundation problems on river crossings.

The story that is commonly told is CP closed the line down to to lack of rail traffic due to the Panama Canal opening, it was cheaper to ship by boat from coast to coast then use rail.

I wonder if they had kept the line in use, would the North Transcona yard have become the CP Winnipeg Intermodial Yard, and Chief Pegius being built years earlier as a route to take all the truck traffic?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by cllew

First I heard of the foundation problems at the river crossing, I guess even before Calgary's bridge failure, back then CP did not want to spend money to fix foundation problems on river crossings.

The story that is commonly told is CP closed the line down to to lack of rail traffic due to the Panama Canal opening, it was cheaper to ship by boat from coast to coast then use rail.

I wonder if they had kept the line in use, would the North Transcona yard have become the CP Winnipeg Intermodial Yard, and Chief Pegius being built years earlier as a route to take all the truck traffic?

At the risk of veering off topic (but not too far since they more or less follow parallel routes) the Bergen Cutoff and North Transcona Yards are a local history topic that I'd love to see explored a little further.

After creating grandiose plans for a mammoth railyard and laying out a rail line around the city, the CPR more or less abandoned the whole thing a few years later. Why? What was the plan in the first place? Why was it abandoned? No one really seems to have any answers.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by esquire

At the risk of veering off topic (but not too far since they more or less follow parallel routes) the Bergen Cutoff and North Transcona Yards are a local history topic that I'd love to see explored a little further.

After creating grandiose plans for a mammoth railyard and laying out a rail line around the city, the CPR more or less abandoned the whole thing a few years later. Why? What was the plan in the first place? Why was it abandoned? No one really seems to have any answers.

I'm pretty sure the massive yard was abandoned by CP due to poor soil quality in that area. The sheds they had built were rapidly sinking into the ground. I would also be interested in learning more...

[bomberjet]

Wow, talk about massive. That definitely would have spurred crazy development in that area. Would have been another "suburb" of Winnipeg.

[Andy6]

Well, that was published in January 1913, which was nearing the end of the boom. The economy tailed off badly in 1913 and then the war began, which would have diverted industrial activity away from things like railway expansions, I would think. But there could be other less generalized explanations as well. Surely Christian Cassidy has a blog post on this somewhere!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Well, that was published in January 1913, which was nearing the end of the boom. The economy tailed off badly in 1913 and then the war began, which would have diverted industrial activity away from things like railway expansions, I would think. But there could be other less generalized explanations as well. Surely Christian Cassidy has a blog post on this somewhere!

You would think so! But so far as I can tell, he hasn't. I also haven't come across any mention of it in newspaper articles or books, either.

I suppose things that didn't happen are almost always going to be less interesting than the ones that did, but this is an intriguing case given that a portion of the plan was actually built. The North Transcona Yards eventually did open on a much diminished scale, but it was never clear to me whether that was intended to be the start of a much bigger project.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by esquire

You would think so! But so far as I can tell, he hasn't. I also haven't come across any mention of it in newspaper articles or books, either.

I suppose things that didn't happen are almost always going to be less interesting than the ones that did, but this is an intriguing case given that a portion of the plan was actually built. The North Transcona Yards eventually did open on a much diminished scale, but it was never clear to me whether that was intended to be the start of a much bigger project.

Can't remember where it was I read or heard it, but I'm pretty sure that it was the soil quality that put a halt to the plans. I'll try to dig it up, but in some history of Winnipeg book, there is mention of the ground being unstable in the area, and a shed/warehouse/feedmill sinking into the ground or shifting pretty badly.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Bdog

Can't remember where it was I read or heard it, but I'm pretty sure that it was the soil quality that put a halt to the plans. I'll try to dig it up, but in some history of Winnipeg book, there is mention of the ground being unstable in the area, and a shed/warehouse/feedmill sinking into the ground or shifting pretty badly.

You must be talking about this:



It happened 100 years ago this October! I wasn't aware that this incident (and the underlying issues) had anything to do with the North Transcona yard plan being abandoned.

OK, now I have officially veered way off topic. I better rein it in before cyrodill lets me have it.

[1ajs]

that incident started a feild of engineering from what i understand. its amazing that they managed to right those silos proper again and are still standing today

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by esquire

You must be talking about this:



It happened 100 years ago this October! I wasn't aware that this incident (and the underlying issues) had anything to do with the North Transcona yard plan being abandoned.

OK, now I have officially veered way off topic. I better rein it in before cyrodill lets me have it.

Good find! Very interesting read.

Edit: I remember where I originally read about the land being too unstable to support the massive yards - in one of Jim Blanchard's Winnipeg History books, "Winnipeg 1912: Diary of a City".

[cllew]

Which brings us back to the Pegius extension. I guess that the soil conditions were the reason that the road bed appeared to be excavated deeper than I had seen other areas done and back filled with crushed limestone.

[Riverman]

My Dad had a photo of the repair operation of that elevator, it was pulled up with a team of steam locomotives.

[1ajs]

i know the photo it was hanging in borels books for years a large print of it. i know one can get at said photo if u go to the photo cafe thing that was on albert st i think their still there??

[bomberjet]

Everything about that is just huge. If that happened today it would be blown up and the hole filled in. Quite impressive they actually got it upright again.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Bdog

Can't remember where it was I read or heard it, but I'm pretty sure that it was the soil quality that put a halt to the plans. I'll try to dig it up, but in some history of Winnipeg book, there is mention of the ground being unstable in the area, and a shed/warehouse/feedmill sinking into the ground or shifting pretty badly.

Is this what you were thinking of? Its an engineering presentation from 2003 on the jacking up of the silo's and the soil conditions.

http://www.cgs.ca/pdf/110928%20Introduction%20and%20papers.pdf

And here are pictures of the work being done;

http://www.cgs.ca/pdf/110916%20Skaftfeld%20photos%20Transcona%20Grain%20Elevator_MINIMIZED.pdf