General Retail News

[YOWflier]

LOLing at the idea of people from Toronto going to Montreal to shop. They might do some shopping while in Montreal for a more general visit, but a specific visit to shop? I doubt it very much.

Not only is shopping in Toronto better, but the taxes are lower, too. Anyone engaging in this practise must be pretty dense.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

LOLing at the idea of people from Toronto going to Montreal to shop. They might do some shopping while in Montreal for a more general visit, but a specific visit to shop? I doubt it very much.

Not only is shopping in Toronto better, but the taxes are lower, too. Anyone engaging in this practise must be pretty dense.

I won't make any comment on the intelligence of those engaging in the practice, but I lived in Toronto for 10 years and can assure you that the weekend shopping trip to Montreal is very common.

This extends well beyond my scope of knowledge, but I gather that the independent boutique/designer scene in Montreal is exceptional, and interior design options are better than Toronto as well. Personally, all I buy there are Boreale and bagels, so all of this is hearsay.

[eternallyme]

Curious, how would Ottawa compare to similar-sized US cities?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Curious, how would Ottawa compare to similar-sized US cities?

Still lagging I wager. Though we might beat Detroit.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Still lagging I wager. Though we might beat Detroit.

Ottawa is certainly not better than METRO Detroit.

Ottawa is even behind Syracuse in my opinion, which has about 500,000 people in its metro area.

Of course this is not an Ottawa-specific issue. Every Canadian city pales in comparison to American city of similar or even smaller size when it comes to shopping.

Compare Watertown NY to Kingston just for fun...

[OTSkyline]

I think what hurts Ottawa the most is that we are directly sandwhiched between Toronto and Montreal so a lot of times we get overlooked and stored might want to just open in TO and MTL and think that we OT people will just drive to one or the other...

If Ottawa was the same size, same population and everything but was in Saskatchewan or Newfoundland then we would probably have ALL the stores and restaurants and hotels etc...

[Norman Bates]

Mother says that if Montreal has a stand alone Tiffany then it will have a Saks.

[J.OT13]

I don't know how well Sears is doing in Québec, or how well Cadillac Fairview malls are doing, but I must say I'm surprised the Montreal area won't get a Nordstrom. Cadillac Fairview owns multiple malls in the MTL region, all of them with Sears locations.

[J.OT13]

I feel the need to re-post this (thanks to waterloowarrior, the original poster);

http://www.cbre.ca/o/torontonorth/AssetLibrary/151Chapel_brochure.pdf

This is what I want to see on the block containing the Metro and LCBO. A total of 29 floors x 2 (including podium+tower) and 110m (366 feet), would be 2 meters shorter than PdV II but take over the Market Skyline enough to make a difference. Add that to 155,000 sq ft of retail, enough to replace the 17,600 square foot existing store and a 30,000 square foot grocery store and still have over 100,000 sqft of space left for Holt or an eventual full sized Saks. Of course we would have to assume Claridge will buy the LCBO land and factor in that the Metro/LCBO lot is seems smaller than the Beth Shalom lot. We could always add a floor of retail.

BTW, I recommend checking out pages 10 to 14 showing area retail stats along with a pretty complete list of new condo projects, number of units and estimated population growth.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The main drawing regions would be Maniwaki, Pembroke, Smiths Falls, Brockville. Cornwall and Hawkesbury would probably be half and half between Ottawa and Montreal. People in Kingston generally go to the GTA to shop, not Ottawa

I live in both Ottawa & Kingston (alternating every few months) and I can say that people from Kingston go to Ottawa a lot more than they go to Toronto. TO is almost twice as far, plus traffic in TO is insane compared to Ottawa--one thing about Kingstonians is they are very intolerant of traffic. A lineup of 8 cars at a traffic light that delays your trip by 2 minutes is seen as "gridlock" there. Kingstonians are spoiled by very spread out working hours and overbuilt road infrastructure.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I live in both Ottawa & Kingston (alternating every few months) and I can say that people from Kingston go to Ottawa a lot more than they go to Toronto. TO is almost twice as far, plus traffic in TO is insane compared to Ottawa--one thing about Kingstonians is they are very intolerant of traffic. A lineup of 8 cars at a traffic light that delays your trip by 2 minutes is seen as "gridlock" there. Kingstonians are spoiled by very spread out working hours and overbuilt road infrastructure.

You obviously have better Kingston knowledge than me, but the thing is you don't have to go all the way into central Toronto to find decent shopping in the GTA.

I must say I have only rarely seen cars with Kingston dealership labels in Ottawa. Certainly not like those from Pembroke or even Cornwall, or Maniwaki dealers in Gatineau.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I don't know how well Sears is doing in Québec, or how well Cadillac Fairview malls are doing, but I must say I'm surprised the Montreal area won't get a Nordstrom. Cadillac Fairview owns multiple malls in the MTL region, all of them with Sears locations.

I think Nordstrom might be one case where the language issue enters into play.

[waterloowarrior]

Kingston's in a nice spot for shopoholics.
-The Cat Centre's not bad for regional shopping, it has a lot of the bigger brands like Target, The Bay, and H&M and there is also a new outlet centre near the 401.
-Plenty of deals in Watertown and Syracuse.
-Toronto is great for day/weekends trips and shopping at the Eaton's Centre, Yorkville, or Yorkdale... Bayshore doesn't have the same cachet (but the Rideau Centre may now be in the big leagues).
-Most locals choose Ottawa if they wanted to go to IKEA, a concert, or other types of major destinations also available in the other two cities. From speaking to people with kids, Ottawa also seems more friendly for family weekend trips.
-My perception is that Montreal is seen more of a weekend destination. A bit farther than Toronto and too rich to explore in a day

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Could Ottawa try to grab retail from the US areas close by as well, especially if the dollar drops?

No.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No.

Really? Why?

Anyone who's been to/through Ogdensburg and the surrounding areas knows that there isn't a whole lot there, both in terms of shopping and everything else. I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that they pop over the border and into Ottawa for a more interesting shopping/dining/entertainment experience.

I'd be willing to bet it's already the case to some extent, and will only increase as Tanger and all of the other retail enhancements come online.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Really? Why?

Anyone who's been to/through Ogdensburg and the surrounding areas knows that there isn't a whole lot there, both in terms of shopping and everything else. I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that they pop over the border and into Ottawa for a more interesting shopping/dining/entertainment experience.

I'd be willing to bet it's already the case to some extent, and will only increase as Tanger and all of the other retail enhancements come online.

You're right but I'd say the geographic area and population is very limited.

Only places like Ogdensburg, Potsdam and Canton. Once you get nearer to Watertown it's easier and more enticing to go to Syracuse.

I also was at YOW recently and obviously these people also use Ottawa airport. Lots of NY plates in the parking garage.

[Norman Bates]

Mother says many small town Americans don't have passports - and so can't cross-border shop.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by vanatox

Do you consider Vancouver and Toronto to be struggling city? Because incomes in the big three are about the same.

If you think that all individuals in Ottawa-Gatineau (1.3 M) are high income earners, you live in denial. Ottawa has mostly high income earners because of the federal government and a smaller immigrant population.

And let me add that for such a "rich" city, Ottawa-Gatineau doesn't look that much prosperous. The city is mostly unimpressive (in every way), utilitarian and my god, the way people dress...

I have no opinion of Toronto or Vancouver in this regard as I've never lived in either cities and thus haven't experienced them in a real way; but I've spent more than 15 years in Montreal at various periods in my life. I've been to school there as well as worked for several employers including restaurants, mobsters in their ligit businesses, Les Ailes de la Mode, a large ad agency as well as a freelancer in Montreal's tiny fashion industry.

I also lived in various parts of the city including suburbs. This is how I know it and believe me, I know it very well.

Sadly, it suffers from the "nivellement par le bas" (race to the bottom) complex as well as rampant nombrilisme and don't get me started with their arrogance. In 2005, they nearly lost the world aquatics championships as they believed it was in the bag no matter how badly structured their proposal was… "hey, we're Montreal, the center of the universe". Thankfully, FINA threatened the city and eventually pulled the games out of Montreal. The city did get its act together, but at the last minute. That's the Montreal way. Trust me, I'm not saying this with "gaieté de coeur" as I do love Montreal. And after living there for a few years, one gets use to this.

I'm not aware of your experience of it but that's been mine.

Denial? That's a rather rude assumption to make.

I never said (nor think) that Ottawa's 1.3m citizens are all high income earners... That would also be impossible. Only about half of them work. The total of employed individuals in Ottawa is 700,000 people.

My statement was a reaction to the one made by Acajack. That's all. I would absolutely love it if Montreal had a total employed population of 1.3m people (out of 2m employed) who could splurge freely on Chanel bags and bottles of Romanée Conti.

It would be great if Montreal had at least one, just one, Michelin starred restaurant if not 2 or even 3; it would be fantastic if it had real art galleries like the ones in NY and malls with red carpet valet parking... I would absolutely love it; and if it did one day acquire the humility it takes to thrive for these things, I would be thrilled to move back.

[vanatox]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

...My statement was a reaction to the one made by Acajack...

Ok that's fine. i just really reacted to the "overwhelming air of poverty" you use to describe Mtl. I lived there for 25 years and has been living in Gatineau for the past 5 years. I wouldn't say that metro Mtl look overwhelmingly poorer than metro Ottawa. However, if your standard of what a city should be is Manhattan (restaurants, galleries, luxury malls...), then every city in this country will look depressed.

Btw, Michelin has never published a guide covering a Canadian city before. So Canada as no Michelin-starred restaurant.

[S-Man]

And let me add that for such a "rich" city, Ottawa-Gatineau doesn't look that much prosperous. The city is mostly unimpressive (in every way), utilitarian and my god, the way people dress...

*Ooooh snap!*

Well, if that ain't the bitchiest sounding thing ever!

But then again, I didn't brush with Perrier water and a toothpaste you've never heard of because it was imported from France (don't even bother looking for it; you'll never find it) this morning...