YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion - Page 249

ACT7 · #**4961** Posted **Jul 20, 2013, 9:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceprobe

has this been posted on the board before?

http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asi...les+flights+Vancouver/8682807/story.html

So I'm curious, with all the Asian route expansion, one has to wonder how well it's working. What I mean is that year-to-date Asia-Pacific traffic at YVR has increased by 8,771 pax. On average, that works out to about 15 pax per day. Add to that fact that the increase in Asia-Pacific traffic has not been enough to offset the decrease in other international traffic, since overall international traffic this year is down. Actually, overall traffic is down by almost 75K.

The other big 3 airports are also down in international traffic with YYZ taking the biggest hit due to a loss of Air India and a decrease in capacity from CX.

I think the announcement is good news but I also have to wonder how much chest thumping is going on with the province and the airport authority. No question that frequency of flights to China is the most in NA, but I think some perspective on actual growth is also needed.

ACT7 · #**4962** Posted **Jul 20, 2013, 9:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Thanks for that. I'll try and keep up.

Well in a strange set of flip flops.

1) PR was dropping YYZ... then...
2) PR was dropping YVR to 4 flights per week... now...
3) PR is now no longer dropping YYZ... and...
4) PR will maintain YVR daily

Huh? So status quo really for PR.

Johnny Aussie · #**4963** Posted **Jul 20, 2013, 11:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACT7

Huh? So status quo really for PR.

Yup. PR seems to beat to a different drum.

As for the YVR-Asia increases. I believe most are just coming online now and as I said now year-round. So I would expect to see the increases in numbers start in June. Who knows, maybe the capacity isn't being filled as much as thought.

In theory as China continues to open up... Just a matter of time before the flood gates really open as is being the case here in Australia.

usog · #**4964** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 12:09 AM**

Strictly anecdotal but the fact that the additional China flights go to places other than Beijing are a huge difference. I know many students/immigrants in general who take China Eastern because they're from the Shanghai/coastal area, and I doubt they'd have problems filling the flights as long as prices are competitive. The only non-business people flying Air China/Air Canada to China nowadays are Northerners/North-Easterners from what I can see.

teriyaki · #**4965** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 1:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Thanks for that. I'll try and keep up.

Well in a strange set of flip flops.

1) PR was dropping YYZ... then...
2) PR was dropping YVR to 4 flights per week... now...
3) PR is now no longer dropping YYZ... and...
4) PR will maintain YVR daily

Someone in that accounting department is not very confident with their projections

Johnny Aussie · #**4966** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 1:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by teriyaki

Someone in that accounting department is not very confident with their projections

I hear next week they will announce daily Winnipeg service via Edmonton.

Hourglass · #**4967** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 2:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACT7

So I'm curious, with all the Asian route expansion, one has to wonder how well it's working. What I mean is that year-to-date Asia-Pacific traffic at YVR has increased by 8,771 pax. On average, that works out to about 15 pax per day. Add to that fact that the increase in Asia-Pacific traffic has not been enough to offset the decrease in other international traffic, since overall international traffic this year is down. Actually, overall traffic is down by almost 75K.

The other big 3 airports are also down in international traffic with YYZ taking the biggest hit due to a loss of Air India and a decrease in capacity from CX.

I think the announcement is good news but I also have to wonder how much chest thumping is going on with the province and the airport authority. No question that frequency of flights to China is the most in NA, but I think some perspective on actual growth is also needed.

I think the difference here is that in absolute terms, the overall number of flights to/from Asia has remained relatively flat. For instance, a few years ago, there were daily flights to Osaka and Fukuoka in addition to the Tokyo flights. Now only Tokyo is left. SQ no longer flies to YVR. HKG at one point had 30 weekly flights from CX, AC and Oasis, now it's 3x per day. Taipei has been flat for many years. So while the number of China flights has increased, the total number of Asian flights hasn't.

twoNeurons · #**4968** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 5:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hourglass

I think the difference here is that in absolute terms, the overall number of flights to/from Asia has remained relatively flat. For instance, a few years ago, there were daily flights to Osaka and Fukuoka in addition to the Tokyo flights. Now only Tokyo is left. SQ no longer flies to YVR. HKG at one point had 30 weekly flights from CX, AC and Oasis, now it's 3x per day. Taipei has been flat for many years. So while the number of China flights has increased, the total number of Asian flights hasn't.

Cool. I don't remember Fukuoka flights. I do think that the increased traffic through Seoul and the additional direct flights to Tokyo and other Chinese cities has really killed Osaka though. Kansai int'l was built along similar lines as Mirabel, except that it has a fast rail connection and a much larger surrounding population than Montreal had. They wanted Osaka to be a major hub, but the clout of Tokyo, the collapse of the Japanese economic bubble the relative inconvenience of the airport and the rise of Incheon as a major hub really stifled KIX.

It still had a chance to be a relief airport for Narita, but the central government decided to expand Haneda to compete with Seoul. A good move, no doubt, though a bit late. That being said, Tokyo has no problem supporting both airports. It's Tokyo, after all.

Valley_Refugee · #**4969** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 10:56 AM**

I wouldn't be surprised if we see PR drop Canada service altogether soon...? Not sure if AC would deem it worth trying a YYZ-YVR-MNL same plane service on a new 787 (something akin to the YYZ-YVR-SYD service on a 77L, where the YYZ-YVR service is a separate domestic flight).

Hourglass · #**4970** Posted **Jul 21, 2013, 3:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Cool. I don't remember Fukuoka flights.

Sorry, brain spasm, meant Nagoya, not Fukuoka.

Valley_Refugee · #**4971** Posted **Jul 23, 2013, 4:38 AM**

*Looks around...waits for Johnny_Aussie...*

Okay, I'll post it then

WestJet Encore Western Canada service expansions, from airlineroute.net:

http://airlineroute.net/2013/07/22/ws3-w13/

YVR-YYJ From 1 to 3 daily
YVR-YKA New 1 daily
YVR-YXT (Terrace) New 2 daily
YVR-YXS 2 of 4 daily by Encore (increase of 1 daily overall, but prob about same capacity as all 3 dailies were 737s before)

Johnny Aussie · #**4972** Posted **Jul 23, 2013, 5:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valley_Refugee

*Looks around...waits for Johnny_Aussie...*

Okay, I'll post it then

WestJet Encore Western Canada service expansions, from airlineroute.net:

http://airlineroute.net/2013/07/22/ws3-w13/

YVR-YYJ From 1 to 3 daily
YVR-YKA New 1 daily
YVR-YXT (Terrace) New 2 daily
YVR-YXS 2 of 4 daily by Encore (increase of 1 daily overall, but prob about same capacity as all 3 dailies were 737s before)

Sorry been busy! Thanks for posting.

1 of 3 daily YLW also being transferred to Encore.
Most else pretty much status quo other than the additional Hawaii flying.

Johnny Aussie · #**4973** Posted **Jul 24, 2013, 10:38 AM**

Westjet is increasing YVR to 396 weekly frequencies compared to 333 last winter. Overall, this is up 63 flight per week.

Mainline will be 327 vs 333 last year so a loss of only 6 per week. Encore will have 69 flights per week.

YVR highlights (compared to last winter): new routes to YXJ, YKA, YXT, YYJ, increased flying to YXS, KOA and LIH.

LeftCoaster · #**4974** Posted **Jul 24, 2013, 7:52 PM**

63 flight increase in one year? That's a 19% increase in plane movements.

Must be smaller planes or something cause that is a huge jump.

Johnny Aussie · #**4975** Posted **Jul 25, 2013, 11:46 PM**

http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/June_Traffic_Update.sflb.ashx

As expected June seems to be a turning point.

All sectors up....

Leading the way is Europe scheduled up 16.3% - LH to MUC take a bow.
Miscellaneous International up a remarkable 21%!
Transborder up 4.9% as expected... cruise traffic growing again. Transborder approaching that 400k mark in a month again.
Scheduled Asia/Pacific up 3.2% - expect that to go skyrocket in July as most increases to China took place towards end of June and into July.
Domestic up a healthy 4.1%.

trofirhen · #**4976** Posted **Jul 26, 2013, 1:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/June_Traffic_Update.sflb.ashx

As expected June seems to be a turning point.

All sectors up....

Leading the way is Europe scheduled up 16.3% - LH to MUC take a bow.
Miscellaneous International up a remarkable 21%!
Transborder up 4.9% as expected... cruise traffic growing again. Transborder approaching that 400k mark in a month again.
Scheduled Asia/Pacific up 3.2% - expect that to go skyrocket in July as most increases to China took place towards end of June and into July.
Domestic up a healthy 4.1%.

Interesting also that same-plane transit was up by 7.8%. Which sector this is largely due to, wish I knew, but I hope it's an indicator, at least in part, that we're moving away a little from being largely a "spoke" city, at least on Transborder and European routes.

Also, can you give an example of "miscellaneous international?" Would these be largely charter flights? And to which possible destinations? Or is it otherwise?

trofirhen · #**4977** Posted **Jul 26, 2013, 1:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

63 flight increase in one year? That's a 19% increase in plane movements.

Must be smaller planes or something cause that is a huge jump.

I think Westjet Encore probably contributes largely to it.

Johnny Aussie · #**4978** Posted **Jul 26, 2013, 1:55 AM**

Sunwing has updated its winter program again.

YVR is being bumped up to 16 weekly flights from 12 in the prior year.

New route to ZIH and one additional to VRA, CUN and SJD.

Johnny Aussie · #**4979** Posted **Jul 26, 2013, 1:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I think Westjet Encore probably contributes largely to it.

I think my post is fairly evident this is the case. Good news for YVR is that the gain in Encore is NOT at the expense of losing mainline.

Johnny Aussie · #**4980** Posted **Jul 26, 2013, 2:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Interesting also that same-plane transit was up by 7.8%. Which sector this is largely due to,

Also, can you give an example of "miscellaneous international?" Would these be largely charter flights? And to which possible destinations? Or is it otherwise?

I am guessing this is the Philippine Airlines to YYZ. "Same-plane transit" is just that "same plane." I think it also includes some of the CX to JFK. "Same-plane" from HKG through to New York.

Miscellaneous International, I believe, is all the sun destination stuff. Mexico, Caribbean etc. The bump would be to the Sunwing summer program I think mainly.