Winnipeg Construction

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by rypinion

I could be wrong, and I'd have to find a source, but I'm pretty sure left hand exits and merges are considered not ideal nowadays and are avoided whenever possible.

In most places that I have lived mergers are by far the most efficient way of combining two perpendicular sets of traffic. The problem in Winnipeg is that people slow down or stop on the merger, thinking it is a yield (which, while were at it, is not a stop sign either) this backs traffic up. You are supposed to speed up and reach road speed before you even try to attempt to merge into traffic.

Winnipeg's way of thinking:

Merge = What yield should be, Yield = What normal Stop Sign should be, Stop Sign = Creep through without stopping.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

In most places that I have lived mergers are by far the most efficient way of combining two perpendicular sets of traffic. The problem in Winnipeg is that people slow down or stop on the merger, thinking it is a yield (which, while were at it, is not a stop sign either) this backs traffic up. You are supposed to speed up and reach road speed before you even try to attempt to merge into traffic.

Winnipeg's way of thinking:

Merge = What yield should be, Yield = What normal Stop Sign should be, Stop Sign = Creep through without stopping.

My personal favorite is watching people's ability to think vanish when they reach one of those new round-about's on residential streets. Those round-about's are where basic human logic goes to die.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

In most places that I have lived mergers are by far the most efficient way of combining two perpendicular sets of traffic. The problem in Winnipeg is that people slow down or stop on the merger, thinking it is a yield (which, while were at it, is not a stop sign either) this backs traffic up. You are supposed to speed up and reach road speed before you even try to attempt to merge into traffic.

Winnipeg's way of thinking:

Merge = What yield should be, Yield = What normal Stop Sign should be, Stop Sign = Creep through without stopping.

Left hand merges are not ideal, but in the case of 101/59, it would be a far sight better than the jumble that exists now. But I do believe a previous poster had it right... it likely is just a construction detour that has remained in place for nearly 20 years.

As for Winnipeggers and their lack of merging ability, I think there is a good reason for that: Winnipeg and surrounding area have very few actual merge lanes. Pay attention to them and you’ll see that most of them offer at most only a couple of car lengths before they end and you get shoved into the next lane, so most drivers just yield and wait for a break in traffic. In most cases there is very little room to complete an actual merge. The Pembina/Bishop Grandin interchange as well as the new stretch of Chief Peguis Trail have proper merge lanes, but I’m hard pressed to think of other examples.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by esquire

Left hand merges are not ideal, but in the case of 101/59, it would be a far sight better than the jumble that exists now. But I do believe a previous poster had it right... it likely is just a construction detour that has remained in place for nearly 20 years.

As for Winnipeggers and their lack of merging ability, I think there is a good reason for that: Winnipeg and surrounding area have very few actual merge lanes. Pay attention to them and you’ll see that most of them offer at most only a couple of car lengths before they end and you get shoved into the next lane, so most drivers just yield and wait for a break in traffic. In most cases there is very little room to complete an actual merge. The Pembina/Bishop Grandin interchange as well as the new stretch of Chief Peguis Trail have proper merge lanes, but I’m hard pressed to think of other examples.

Over time I've begun stopping at merging lanes (which I'm well aware is the wrong thing to do) because people in the lane you're attempting to merge into will go out of their way to block you from getting in front of them. Attempting to properly merge into a lane during rush hour is suicide in this city.

[bomberjet]

May be some miscommunication. Just to clarify. Left hand exits and left hand merges. Not just merges in general. Left hand being the centre median, the left side of the roadway. Most exits and merges are right hand, or on the right side of the roadway.

Originally Posted by esquire

Left hand merges are not ideal, but in the case of 101/59, it would be a far sight better than the jumble that exists now. But I do believe a previous poster had it right... it likely is just a construction detour that has remained in place for nearly 20 years.

As for Winnipeggers and their lack of merging ability, I think there is a good reason for that: Winnipeg and surrounding area have very few actual merge lanes. Pay attention to them and you’ll see that most of them offer at most only a couple of car lengths before they end and you get shoved into the next lane, so most drivers just yield and wait for a break in traffic. In most cases there is very little room to complete an actual merge. The Pembina/Bishop Grandin interchange as well as the new stretch of Chief Peguis Trail have proper merge lanes, but I’m hard pressed to think of other examples.

See the south Perimeter as a prime example. St. Mary's and St. Anne's are just down right dangerous. Right turn cut-offs with no merge lanes at all and just a yield sign thrown in there. How are people supposed to merge into traffic? Oh, right. They just wait for the light to change...

Originally Posted by Wigglez

Over time I've begun stopping at merging lanes (which I'm well aware is the wrong thing to do) because people in the lane you're attempting to merge into will go out of their way to block you from getting in front of them. Attempting to properly merge into a lane during rush hour is suicide in this city.

It's almost comical sometimes. Eastbound Bishop at Pembina is the worst at afternoon rush. Everyone speeds up so you don't get in front of them. Almost impossible to merge properly. Then traffic stops, and they still pull up to not let you in. Then they're all awkward sitting in the car, put there arm up in front of their face as if they're leaning on it or something. Play with the radio a bit.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

In most places that I have lived mergers are by far the most efficient way of combining two perpendicular sets of traffic. The problem in Winnipeg is that people slow down or stop on the merger, thinking it is a yield (which, while were at it, is not a stop sign either) this backs traffic up. You are supposed to speed up and reach road speed before you even try to attempt to merge into traffic.

Winnipeg's way of thinking:

Merge = What yield should be, Yield = What normal Stop Sign should be, Stop Sign = Creep through without stopping.

The root cause of the issue is Manitoba does not have proper merge lanes, for example on the Perimeter where you are merging with traffic most of the merge lanes are far too short to be full up to speed before the lane ends. That said, stopping in a merge as people often do is extremely dangerous as people coming behind you often see far too late that you have stopped while they are busy trying to get up to a high rate of speed themselves. It is really not a good situation and I am surprised there are not more accidents.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The root cause of the issue is Manitoba does not have proper merge lanes, for example on the Perimeter where you are merging with traffic most of the merge lanes are far too short to be full up to speed before the lane ends. That said, stopping in a merge as people often do is extremely dangerous as people coming behind you often see far too late that you have stopped while they are busy trying to get up to a high rate of speed themselves. It is really not a good situation and I am surprised there are not more accidents.

The truly awful merge lanes like St. Anne’s or St. Mary’s and the Perimeter are at least predictable in that drivers generally have to come to a full stop if there is any traffic. The worst ones are the “kind-of, sort-of” merge lanes like SB St. Mary’s to WB Bishop Grandin – there is a very small, unsigned merge lane that some drivers will use to get up to speed, while those who are less familiar with the area will err on the side of caution, assume it’s just a yield, and slow down or stop as a result even though there is room to merge. I know that I’ve had to slam on the brakes when people have done that... I’m willing to bet that there have been more than a few rear-enders there.

Incidentally, the St. Anne’s and St. Mary’s intersections with the Perimeter are almost like a perfectly-preserved time capsule of 1950s highway geometry and design. It is mind boggling that MIT really hasn’t upgraded them since the South Perimeter was built some 50 years ago (well, apart from adding a left turn lane on 100, I suppose...)

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by CoryB

....for example on the Perimeter where you are merging with traffic most of the merge lanes are far too short to be full up to speed before the lane ends.

While driving one normally uses from 1/2"-1" of travel of the throttle pedal. The remainder of the travel is for merging. When attempting to merge simply do a quick check to find an opening in traffic, open (floor) the throttle and aim for the opening.

That's how it is done everywhere else in the world.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

The worst ones are the “kind-of, sort-of” merge lanes like SB St. Mary’s to WB Bishop Grandin – there is a very small, unsigned merge lane that some drivers will use to get up to speed, while those who are less familiar with the area will err on the side of caution, assume it’s just a yield, and slow down or stop as a result even though there is room to merge. I know that I’ve had to slam on the brakes when people have done that... I’m willing to bet that there have been more than a few rear-enders there.

It's also a pedestrian crossing with a bus stop right there. Are people really supposed to be accelerating to freeway speed at that point? They should install a stoplight for pedestrian crossing in that case.

[flatlander]

I want construction

[northern_hoser]

My favorite "should I merge, shouldn't I merge?" has got to be westbound McGillvary to northbound Kenaston where you have an entire lane to get up to speed and merge into traffic. I don't drive that route anymore as I switched jobs and have a nice easy commute, but I would get absolutely frustrated with people who came to a complete stop there. Very rarely would someone change lanes right after the intersection, so I had no issues with going right around the corner, speeding up and merging into the next lane.

[Shinook]

Originally Posted by flatlander

I want construction

So do I. Can we please take the merging talk to the Expresso thread or something?

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Shinook

So do I. Can we please take the merging talk to the Expresso thread or something?

Merging traffic, with a the movement to another thread..very clear and concise.

[wpgcityone]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The AT overpass at PTH 101 open house boards are posted on the MIT website. Direct link to the PDF:
http://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/pdf/pth101boards.pdf

Three alternatives for the overpass:

1. At the Gateway/Raleigh corrdior. Cost = $16.5M.
2. At Mowat Rd near the churches. Cost = $10.5M.
3. At the Maple corridor, 270m west of the Gateway/Raleigh Corridor. Cost = $10M.

Has anyone heard anything else about the potential big box store development in the corner between Lag/Gateway/PTH101/CoW city limts? Seems like a bad place for it since there won't be any access from either 101 or Lag due to the future interchange and most traffic will have to access the site from Headmaster and Gateway.

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by esquire

Left hand merges are not ideal, but in the case of 101/59, it would be a far sight better than the jumble that exists now. But I do believe a previous poster had it right... it likely is just a construction detour that has remained in place for nearly 20 years.

As for Winnipeggers and their lack of merging ability, I think there is a good reason for that: Winnipeg and surrounding area have very few actual merge lanes. Pay attention to them and you’ll see that most of them offer at most only a couple of car lengths before they end and you get shoved into the next lane, so most drivers just yield and wait for a break in traffic. In most cases there is very little room to complete an actual merge. The Pembina/Bishop Grandin interchange as well as the new stretch of Chief Peguis Trail have proper merge lanes, but I’m hard pressed to think of other examples.

In regards to left hand merges, I really don't see the problem. I have been using them since I began driving, and have never had nor witnessed an issue. It involves the person behind the wheel using some common sense and doing a shoulder check, while signalling well in advance. If the problem is that most Winnipeggers (among other drivers) are too lazy to shoulder check, and never use their signals, then that is really just an excuse.

Almost every intersection (at least that I can think of) on the 400 series uses left merging lane, as well as the Deerfoot in Alberta. There is absolutely no problem with them.

As for Winnipeggers being ignorant because of the environment that they grew up driving in, I personally don't blame or fault them. However, that doesn't change the fact that Winnipeggers' lack many very necessary driving skills that are apparent once you leave the province.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

As for Winnipeggers being ignorant because of the environment that they grew up driving in, I personally don't blame or fault them. However, that doesn't change the fact that Winnipeggers' lack many very necessary driving skills that are apparent once you leave the province.

This is a very broad statement, "Winnipegers lack the driving skills once they leave the province"?

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by Cyrodill

This is a very broad statement, "Winnipegers lack the driving skills once they leave the province"?

You reworded my post, but OK, I'll bite. It was said on this forum many times already that Winnipeggers' lack many very necessary driving skills once they leave the province. What are those skills? Merging, yielding, Freeway driving, etc. Basically any kind of highway driving.

This is true, unless they have driving experience outside of the province prior to obtaining their Manitoba Licenses, such as myself. I am not claiming to be a better driver than anyone, but I do possess the knowledge of how to drive on Freeways, that Winnipeggers' (barring travel) don't have. In fact, in order to obtain a licence in Ontario (Southern at least) you have to drive on the 400 series during your final test, and you have to properly merge on and off the highway in order to pass.

Prime example... My aunts came down to visit myself and my mom a couple of years back. They literally almost — themselves because they were so scared of the 401 when we first went on it. They had never seen anything like it before. After two weeks, my one aunt was able to drive on the 401, but to this day gets nervous when in Toronto, with the many turn offs, and overlapping freeways. My second Aunt still refuses to drive on it, and is still uncomfortable and tense as a passenger.

Driving 120 (130 in Alberta) when surrounded by Semi's among other vehicles, with multi-lane turn offs, toll routes, feeder routes, freeway's beside, over and under other freeways, is something non-travelling Winnipeggers' have little to no experience with. That being said, I would like to see someone from out of province handle Winnipeg's windswept winter "Highways" without white-knucle, double —, the steering wheel going half the speed limit.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by wpgcityone

Has anyone heard anything else about the potential big box store development in the corner between Lag/Gateway/PTH101/CoW city limts? Seems like a bad place for it since there won't be any access from either 101 or Lag due to the future interchange and most traffic will have to access the site from Headmaster and Gateway.

It will be a SmartCentre's development. They have shopping centres across Canada with two in Winnipeg - Unicity and Kenaston Common (Walmart & Home Depot side). Once they pass zoning they will solicit one large format retailer (100,000 sq ft) and about another 100,000 sq ft of smaller retailers. Access will be only from an extended Gateway Rd and the main Rd through the new Country Estates development connecting to Henderson Hwy. There is no access allowed to the Perimeter or Lagimodiere.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

You reworded my post, but OK, I'll bite. It was said on this forum many times already that Winnipeggers' lack many very necessary driving skills once they leave the province. What are those skills? Merging, yielding, Freeway driving, etc. Basically any kind of highway driving.

This is true, unless they have driving experience outside of the province prior to obtaining their Manitoba Licenses, such as myself. I am not claiming to be a better driver than anyone, but I do possess the knowledge of how to drive on Freeways, that Winnipeggers' (barring travel) don't have. In fact, in order to obtain a licence in Ontario (Southern at least) you have to drive on the 400 series during your final test, and you have to properly merge on and off the highway in order to pass.

Prime example... My aunts came down to visit myself and my mom a couple of years back. They literally almost — themselves because they were so scared of the 401 when we first went on it. They had never seen anything like it before. After two weeks, my one aunt was able to drive on the 401, but to this day gets nervous when in Toronto, with the many turn offs, and overlapping freeways. My second Aunt still refuses to drive on it, and is still uncomfortable and tense as a passenger.

Driving 120 (130 in Alberta) when surrounded by Semi's among other vehicles, with multi-lane turn offs, toll routes, feeder routes, freeway's beside, over and under other freeways, is something non-travelling Winnipeggers' have little to no experience with. That being said, I would like to see someone from out of province handle Winnipeg's windswept winter "Highways" without white-knucle, double —, the steering wheel going half the speed limit.

Thx for your reply.If you'd like to discuss this I will gladly respond in another thread if you would like to move our posts thier.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Biff

It will be a SmartCentre's development. They have shopping centres across Canada with two in Winnipeg - Unicity and Kenaston Common (Walmart & Home Depot side). Once they pass zoning they will solicit one large format retailer (100,000 sq ft) and about another 100,000 sq ft of smaller retailers. Access will be only from an extended Gateway Rd and the main Rd through the new Country Estates development connecting to Henderson Hwy. There is no access allowed to the Perimeter or Lagimodiere.

Just wondering if you attended the open house or have any PDF's to look at? I didn't make it to anything over the last month...

I'm thinking there's going to be a need for a diamond interchange on the Perimeter somewhere between Henderson and Lag with all the development going on. Limited access for a good stretch there with only residential routes to get to Henderson and/or Lag. Just my thoughts.