Interprovincial bridge crossing discussion

[eternallyme]

Only one solution exists: tunnel between Nicholas and the M-C bridge. With the exception of hazardous goods (how many of those trucks go through downtown each day though?) it would eliminate all trucks from downtown streets without creating new problems. It would definitely need to be tolled, at say $6.00 per trip, increasing by 50 cents every 3 years to account for inflation (to discourage - but not prohibit - car travel) with toll revenue working to pay off the tunnel and then to allow for maintenance and transportation improvements afterwards. It should be primarily owned and operated by the City of Ottawa.

Trucks - except local deliveries in Lower Town - would be banned from King Edward afterward. Hazardous goods could either be diverted to the Chaudière (time restricted), escorted through downtown or sent to a separate ferry which could be built in a suitable location.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

It would definitely need to be tolled, at say $6.00 per trip, increasing by 50 cents every 3 years to account for inflation (to discourage - but not prohibit - car travel)

Why discourage cars? If a direct road link can be tunnelled from the MC bridge (where all of West Quebec's highways funnel their traffic) to the Queensway, for those vehicles who are "just passing though" Ottawa, why not get ALL this traffic off Ottawa's downtown streets?

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Why discourage cars? If a direct road link can be tunnelled from the MC bridge (where all of West Quebec's highways funnel their traffic) to the Queensway, for those vehicles who are "just passing though" Ottawa, why not get ALL this traffic off Ottawa's downtown streets?

I can't imagine there's a lot of this. Most people I know in Gatineau only occasionally go anywhere in Ottawa besides Downtown, especially with the new 50 to Montreal.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I can't imagine there's a lot of this. Most people I know in Gatineau only occasionally go anywhere in Ottawa besides Downtown, especially with the new 50 to Montreal.

I dunno, I see a lot of Quebec plates in Westboro, especially at the Superstore and MEC. IKEA is another magnet. On the flip side, I see a lot of Ottawa west-enders going to Aylmer for cheap beer (after they drop off that pesky squirrel, apparently).

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I can't imagine there's a lot of this. Most people I know in Gatineau only occasionally go anywhere in Ottawa besides Downtown, especially with the new 50 to Montreal.

I still see a lot of quebec plates at Laurier and Nicholas coming from and going to the Queensway

[Acajack]

It's all super-anecdotal. Personally I rarely cut through CBD Ottawa on my way elsewhere.

If I am going to the 417 East I take Vanier Parkway as do most eastern Gatinois and Hullois I know.

Aylmerites and people in the Plateau probably take the Champlain Bridge and then Island Park or Parkdale.

If I am going to 417 West I take Booth to Rochester, or Champlain to the Sir John A Parkway to Woodroffe.

[lrt's friend]

We all take the most direct and fastest route to get where we want to go. If I am going across the river, it is Colonel By, Sussex and MC bridge. If to Aylmer, it is CEF, Island Park Drive and Champlain Bridge. If I am picking up a friend in Vanier, it is Vanier Parkway, St. Patrick, MC Bridge. A new bridge would change patterns and disperse traffic, which is not a bad thing.

[lrt's friend]

Of course, heaven forbid, a new bridge may make it easier for Ottawans to go to the Quebec side, and Gatinois to go to St. Laurent and Place d'Orleans or other such places. We really don't want us fraternizing, do we????

[Acajack]

Still anecdotally, coming off the M-C bridge into Ottawa, I'd estimate that 75%+ of passenger vehicles turn left onto St Patrick to go towards Vanier Parkway. Off-peak it's even higher than that I'd say.

Traffic going towards Rideau St. tends to lighter and a large percentage of it is heavy trucks.

[Ottawa superman]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's all super-anecdotal. Personally I rarely cut through CBD Ottawa on my way elsewhere.

If I am going to the 417 East I take Vanier Parkway as do most eastern Gatinois and Hullois I know.

Do you have any documentation for this?

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We all take the most direct and fastest route to get where we want to go. If I am going across the river, it is Colonel By, Sussex and MC bridge. If to Aylmer, it is CEF, Island Park Drive and Champlain Bridge. If I am picking up a friend in Vanier, it is Vanier Parkway, St. Patrick, MC Bridge. A new bridge would change patterns and disperse traffic, which is not a bad thing.

The NCC disagrees with you. Their own traffic engineers has stated that the majority of traffic would be heading to Downtown Ottawa.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Of course, heaven forbid, a new bridge may make it easier for Ottawans to go to the Quebec side, and Gatinois to go to St. Laurent and Place d'Orleans or other such places. We really don't want us fraternizing, do we????

Their is already five bridges to fraternize. We don't need another one. We need to get trucks out of King Edward, which Kettle Island failed. Beside regarding Aviation, the only reason a bridge would be needed is for Quebeckers to access Montford Hospital and the french college. Quebec should be investing in their own infrastructure before going to Ontario. Second off, many federal offices in Vanier are closing and moving to Hull and to Kanata.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Still anecdotally, coming off the M-C bridge into Ottawa, I'd estimate that 75%+ of passenger vehicles turn left onto St Patrick to go towards Vanier Parkway. Off-peak it's even higher than that I'd say.

Traffic going towards Rideau St. tends to lighter and a large percentage of it is heavy trucks.

Again another fact without documentation.

[lrt's friend]

Their is already five bridges to fraternize. We don't need another one. We need to get trucks out of King Edward, which Kettle Island failed. Beside regarding Aviation, the only reason a bridge would be needed is for Quebeckers to access Montford Hospital and the french college. Quebec should be investing in their own infrastructure before going to Ontario. Second off, many federal offices in Vanier are closing and moving to Hull and to Kanata.

Oh, so they are not going to use that massive new CSIS facility after all? Perhaps, nobody from Gatineau will be working there.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Oh, so they are not going to use that massive new CSIS facility after all? Perhaps, nobody from Gatineau will be working there.

I think you mean the new CSE facility?

[JM1]

People make decisions about where to live partly based on where they work. Granted, two family incomes complicate things, but do we really need to invest $1 billion in a bridge so that CSIS and CSE workers can live in East Gatineau?

We said we were building it for trucks. But that argument fell through when the fact that trucks won't really use the new bridge came to light.

Now we are shifting arguments so that people can commute long distances by car to work? Right... good idea. Especially coming from "LRT's fiend".

Perhaps the solution for CSE/CSIS workers is to live in Orleans or in central Ottawa. Or better yet, in Gloucester! I personally would love to live in Montreal, but I am somewhat practical -- my job is in Ottawa, so I have made a compromise. I don't expect anyone to fund a teleportation facility so that I can commute from home in Montreal to my job in Ottawa each day (granted such a facility may cost more than $1 billion).

The sands on the bridge argument just keep shifting. At least my Ontario tax dollars won't support this silliness.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ottawa superman

Do you have any documentation for this?

AND

Again another fact without documentation.

C'est pour ça que j'ai dit ''anecdotal''. DEUX fois plutôt qu'une!

[lrt's friend]

It is not as if Gatineau is on the moon. For many francophones, living in a French environment is important. And we all know that most people do not move if their job relocates within the same city. Commuting is a reality. It is not realistic to expect people to live next to their jobs. Perhaps 100 years ago, but not today.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Why discourage cars? If a direct road link can be tunnelled from the MC bridge (where all of West Quebec's highways funnel their traffic) to the Queensway, for those vehicles who are "just passing though" Ottawa, why not get ALL this traffic off Ottawa's downtown streets?

Wouldn't it be better for them to use public transit instead for local movements? Besides, car traffic is to be expected and would still decrease somewhat (but not extraordinary). The 50 to Montreal helps reduce the cars crossing to the 417 to go east as well (doesn't eliminate).

Trucks cannot be moved to public transit, nor can local deliveries or trucks going from Gatineau south or west be shifted. The 50 definitely helps though. Removing trucks from downtown streets is paramount. Only a few neighbourhood deliveries and hazardous goods (which should require escorting on streets) would remain downtown.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is not as if Gatineau is on the moon. For many francophones, living in a French environment is important. And we all know that most people do not move if their job relocates within the same city. Commuting is a reality. It is not realistic to expect people to live next to their jobs. Perhaps 100 years ago, but not today.

All true, but nothing there that's worth over a billion dollars of public money to try to address.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

All true, but nothing there that's worth over a billion dollars of public money to try to address.

Although the post you were responding is not the only reason for the bridge... or the expense.

[Ottawa superman]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is not as if Gatineau is on the moon. For many francophones, living in a French environment is important. And we all know that most people do not move if their job relocates within the same city. Commuting is a reality. It is not realistic to expect people to live next to their jobs. Perhaps 100 years ago, but not today.

No one is stopping them from living in a francophone environment. Their is a downside to living in a suburban environment and commute is a part of it. I live inside the greenbelt. I chose a more expensive home with less backyard than the suburb. I made this decision because I didn't want a long commute.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Although the post you were responding is not the only reason for the bridge... or the expense.

Acajack, many of the previous statement you made were anecdotal. You often try to mislead to make a point and can't debate without making irrevelant comparison and non factual and often anecdotal argument.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ottawa superman

Acajack, many of the previous statement you made were anecdotal. You often try to mislead to make a point and can't debate without making irrevelant comparison and non factual and often anecdotal argument.

🞵🞵🞵? The Kettle Island Bridge, if it is ever built, will not be built solely so that francophones working in Ottawa can live in a low-density, predominantly francophone milieu on Quebec territory...

It will also be built:
- to provide a linkage between the eastern parts of Ottawa and Gatineau, and between this part of eastern Ontario and western Quebec (note there is no bridge on the Ottawa River between the Macdonald-Cartier and Hawkesbury, a distance of close to 100 km)

- to reduce drive-through traffic and congestion in central-eastern Ottawa (Lowertown, Vanier) than has no business there

- to reduce heavy trucking pressures on Waller, Rideau and King Edward


None of this is anecdotal, ireelevant or non-factual.