Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[umbria27]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Other than money from air rights, what else do we get? How much are OSEG investing in the Park? I know they aren't throwing any money for the Stadium/Arena or the parking. Are we paying them to manage the stadium? Are they paying us to use the stadium/arena? Are they paying taxes on the new buildings? Are we making money on the parking or are they?

Seems nothing was made clear.

To my knowledge OSEG is paying for a portion of the parking. There's no commitment to contribute to the park.
Revenue allocation is murky at best. OSEG will manage the retail, parking, stadium and arena with all revenues going into a convoluted waterfall of payments with payouts split between OSEG on the city based on a complicated equity calculation that nobody understands. Other than the $1 rent per year, I don't think anybody has any clue as to how much revenue will flow to the city from operations.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by umbria27

There's no commitment to contribute to the park.

OSEG had committed to to paying half of the $10M for the park prior to the design competition. Last I heard, that was still the case; they're still contributing $5M.

[JackBauer24]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

I keep hearing this line about reaping the benefits of increasing home values.

Unfortunately, if you simply intend to live in your house and have no immediate plans to cash out -- as my family does -- rising equity does you absolutely no good. Indeed, it drives people out because the market value assessment system increases taxes up with no accompanying improvement in services.

Are you serious? Look, I'm all for an educated back and forth debate, but when you're just throwing any and every anti-Lansdowne theory out there to see if it sticks, as I've stated before I have a young niece and nephew I can speak with to have that type of debate.

You don't need to "cash out" to realize or take advantage of the increase in home equity - there are several ways to use that. If you need advice or tips on how to use it to your benefits, please PM me.

We all get that you hate this development, and that's cool, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but please stick to valid points in your argument.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by JFFournier

OSEG had committed to to paying half of the $10M for the park prior to the design competition. Last I heard, that was still the case; they're still contributing $5M.

Last I heard, they were in fact still contributing the 5 million, but the winning design is suppose to cost 56 million (after cutting out the 14 million dollar bridge and 8 million dollar island).

http://www.ottawasun.com/news/ottawa/2010/06/08/14307921.html

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Last I heard, they were in fact still contributing the 5 million, but the winning design is suppose to cost 56 million (after cutting out the 14 million dollar bridge and 8 million dollar island).

http://www.ottawasun.com/news/ottawa/2010/06/08/14307921.html

That's probably the last bit I saw too, however...

"The very green design by Phillips Farevaag Smallenberg carries an estimated $68-million price tag, but the seven-member jury is recommending deferring the eye-catching $14-million bridge across the Rideau Canal and taking out the $8-million island in the waterway."

68 - 14 - 8 = 46

I used to see the price tag referred to as $40M. I guess that was probably taking the remaining 46, removing OSEG's $5M and leaving $41M.

But to be honest, I thought OSEG's 5 was part of the 40, so that the city would pay about 35. I know there's a bridge planned nearby, but I don't recall whether that was already being discussed prior to this competition.

[nredding]

Minto is offering a small reduction in the cost of "select" one-bedroom condos at Lansdowne. From an email:

Buy at Minto@lansdowne for a limited time and take advantage
of our $4000 bonus*!

Here’s what the bonus on the purchase of select one-bedroom
suites includes:

• No condo fees for one year
• Free OC Transpo ECOPASS for one year
• Free VRTUCAR membership for one year
• A brand new bike to make getting around that much easier

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

$46 million---then why has the city estimated a cost of 20-25 million when tendering earlier this month?
The article says that price tag will include all elements of the park. I got this article by Metro News on David Cherushenko's web site.

Lansdowne urban park price tag estimated at $20m-$25m

Tuesday, 4 June 2013

By Alex Boutilier, Metro

The City of Ottawa is expecting to pay $20 million to $25 million for an urban park at Lansdowne, according to tender documents.

That estimate includes all components of the park, including two major public art installations, a refrigerated skating rink, a new skateboard park, and a "great lawn" on the park's southeast corner.

Jeff Byrne, the head of the city's supply branch, said the price tag is an estimate only. The contract will be awarded to the lowest responsive bid.

The city announced four companies had prequalified to bid on the multi-million dollar contract last week. The city went the pre-qualification route, Byrne said, due to the size, complexity and timelines associated with the project.

"The Lansdowne redevelopment includes multiple project components, underway concurrently and with extremely tight timelines and therefore this pre-qualification process was deemed appropriate," Byrne wrote in an email.

The successful contractor will have incentives to meet that aggressive timeline. If all work on the northeastern section of the park is completed by May 30, 2014, the contractor gets a $60,000 bonus. If work on the southern section is completed by October 31 later that year, the contractor is eligible for an additional $40,000.

If deadlines are missed the contractor could be slapped with up to $100,000 in "disincentives" fees, depending on how long the delay lasts.

The tender documents are in the hands of the contractors, but will not be made public until June 10. Final completion of the contract is set for May 2015.

Prequalified bidders for the Lansdowne urban park:
Carillion Canada Inc. — Concord, Ontario
D&G Landscaping — Greely, Ontario
Doran Contractors — Ottawa, Ontario
Ottawa Greenbelt Construction Co. Ltd. — Ottawa, Ontario

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

$46 million---then why has the city estimated a cost of 20-25 million when tendering earlier this month?
The article says that price tag will include all elements of the park. I got this article by Metro News on David Cherushenko's web site.

The FoL picked up on that. As you can imagine, they're keeping a close eye on things to make sure they're not losing any of the features that they didn't care a crap about a few months ago.

1. The City has short-listed four firms—Carillion Canada, D & G Landscaping, Doran Contractors and Ottawa Greenbelt Construction Co. Ltd—to bid on construction of the urban park at Lansdowne. The City now says the park will cost between $20 and $25 million dollars. That is a considerable reduction from the $35 million that was estimated. It is not clear whether any of features have been cut or not. We'll have to wait for the final bids to see.

[lrt's friend]

a new skateboard park

With the inevitable graffiti? Joy

[CorbinW]

Originally Posted by ThaLoveDocta

Mighty convenient what would get to stay and what would go on behalf of the entire city at the whim of a handful of outspoken locals.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

With the inevitable graffiti? Joy

What's the problem? Many opponents had no objection to leaving their own works of art on the barriers surrounding Lansdowne Park.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by JFFournier

What's the problem? Many opponents had no objection to leaving their own works of art on the barriers surrounding Lansdowne Park.

No kidding!

[umbria27]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

$46 million---then why has the city estimated a cost of 20-25 million when tendering earlier this month?
The article says that price tag will include all elements of the park. I got this article by Metro News on David Cherushenko's web site.

The $46 million park estimate might have included the pedestrian bridge to Ottawa East. I believe that's being run as a separate project now.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by brentgaulois

About the Breezehill condo, wait until you guys here what Claridge wants to put beside it on 1040 Somerset.

Please share!

[alecz_dad]

It is a dilemma. Although I suppose it was technically defacement, the artworks of the children and neighbours that was first painted on the fence was a benign and creative response to their frustration about the situation, and the ugliness of a 1000 ft of bare plywood.



• Video Link

However, I think that I draw the line at the mindless tagging and re-tagging that is now taking place.


And unfortunately the little buggers are too chicken to actually tag the fence facing Bank Street, or to inject any critical analysis into their works, a la Banksy.


If this was any other sort of private property, in such a visible location, the owners would be obliged to remove the graffiti at their own expense. However, it seems that the City (or OSMUG, or the contractor, or whoever owns the fence at the moment) is immune from the expectations of its own Graffiti Management By-law.

Originally Posted by JFFournier

What's the problem? Many opponents had no objection to leaving their own works of art on the barriers surrounding Lansdowne Park.

[alecz_dad]

It would be interesting to unpack the budgeting that resulted in the $20-25 million and $46 million numbers for the urban park at Lansdowne.

Yes, the bridge is not part of the park now. It is being studied at a location further north on the Canal at Fifth Avenue.

However, I wonder whether the more alarmist numbers included things such as the massive storm-water treatment tank, that the big lawn is the roof for? Or the landscaping of the berms filled with contaminated soil from the excavation of the parking garage?

Seems a bit deceptive if those have been included in the earlier figure. And if they're included in this latest, lower figure, there really won't be much in the park besides a bit of grass, because the budget will already be blown.

Whatever the outcome, I'm sure that as with all other phases of the selling of this scheme, they will have over-promised, and will under-deliver.

Originally Posted by umbria27

The $46 million park estimate might have included the pedestrian bridge to Ottawa East. I believe that's being run as a separate project now.

[alecz_dad]

Jack,

All I meant is that a common refrain that I see here is people saying "what are those whiny Glebe people whining about, don't they know their property values will go up?" Indeed, they may. Certainly that's what all the realtors say. (But then it's in their interest for everybody to expect to bid up the market price.)

You are quite correct that it is possible to derive some benefit from accrued equity by taking out a home equity loan. However, I prefer to see my house as a home, and not a piggy-bank.

Given the chaos that people borrowing against their homes wreaked in the recent financial collapse (remember? way back in, lo, 2008?) I am reluctant to borrow against my paid-off asset, especially when the local economy is so uncertain. So, I see the greatest return coming only when I liquidate that asset.

Indeed, I have been, and remain opposed to the Lansdowne scheme. But I do always try to make cogent arguments. There are clearly some people on this discussion who are predisposed to try to step out of their "development porn" mindset for a minute, and try to understand why the people who opposed this project, and the devil's bargain behind it, are sensible, and can make rational arguments to support their point of view; and then there are the others.

Sometimes I partake in the slanging matches. And often what I am doing feels like nothing other than mental masturbation, given the generally hostile audience here (without the pleasurable relief). But I find the simple act of just saying what I think, helps me to clarify my own position to myself.

Perhaps I should thank the more thoughtful haters for their criticisms, as they are like whetstones, that help me to sharpen my critique, and hone my understanding of what I think about Lansdowne.

So, thank you.

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

Are you serious? Look, I'm all for an educated back and forth debate, but when you're just throwing any and every anti-Lansdowne theory out there to see if it sticks, as I've stated before I have a young niece and nephew I can speak with to have that type of debate.

You don't need to "cash out" to realize or take advantage of the increase in home equity - there are several ways to use that. If you need advice or tips on how to use it to your benefits, please PM me.

We all get that you hate this development, and that's cool, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but please stick to valid points in your argument.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

It is a dilemma. Although I suppose it was technically defacement, the artworks of the children and neighbours that was first painted on the fence was a benign and creative response to their frustration about the situation, and the ugliness of a 1000 ft of bare plywood.

Where's the dilemna? Ultimately, the ony difference is that you approve of one form because you agree with the sentiment displayed. But the people who did the first ones had no more (or less) of a right to do it than those who did the second. It's a 1000 foot of ugly bare plywood for the second set of artists too, AD.

What was that you were saying about different rules for different people?

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by alecz_dad

As nice as that memory may be, Ottawa is a much more sprawling city than it was 40 or 50 years ago -- as Glebe residents are also always reminded -- and so the reality is that most sports fans will be coming from all reaches of the Ottawa-Gatineau area, and so will likely drive, or very grudgingly use transit. Below is a typical scene of traffic on Bank Street when more than one thing was happening at Lansdowne at once.

I can't help but ask, what exactly is the problem in this photo? By my count, 8 cars heading one way and 11 the other...cars on the road, driving...looks like a typical scene on every street.

[lrt's friend]

I don't understand the comments about fighting to have transit service cut on Bank Street. What is the justification for this? How does this benefit the Glebe?

Regarding events at Lansdowne attracting car drivers, yes, that is true. It is inevitable that big events and popular destinations attract traffic. But popular locations also make for a more vibrant city as well. Many people will be happy to use transit as an alternative if you make it convenient and efficient. I think back to the last Grey Cup and how well it worked. But, if you are cheap about it and make people wait too long or run to where people don't want to go or make them transfer too often, then it is a different story. The City of Ottawa better seriously have a good transit plan for Lansdowne. Doing this right will move us a little in the direction of making a transit culture. Do it wrong and it will turn more people off transit.