Calgary Public Transit II

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Cage

Thanks for the update mersar.

I got my information from the monochrome signs on both Crowchild and Stoney. My interpretation was the closure was only for the WB ramp as stated in my post above. Additionally the road signs made no mention of a closure on June 26th, but there is a possibility of signage on EB side before 12 mile coulee rd.

Wow, there is absolutely ZERO indication of a closure of Crowchild. The signs very specifically mention the ramp and that's it. I'd be pretty pissed if I suddenly found a major artery closed with zero warning.

I wonder why they can't swing traffic over to the other side and share lanes for the night. Probably too complex, easier to just deal with some detours for a night or 2.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Wow, there is absolutely ZERO indication of a closure of Crowchild. The signs very specifically mention the ramp and that's it. I'd be pretty pissed if I suddenly found a major artery closed with zero warning.

I wonder why they can't swing traffic over to the other side and share lanes for the night. Probably too complex, easier to just deal with some detours for a night or 2.

Correct. All the signs I have seen only indicate a ramp closure and say nothing about a full closure of the road itself.

With the tracks already laid there really is no easy way to divert traffic onto the other side and share lanes. It's pretty much has to be a full closure.

[RicoLance21]

Originally Posted by SquattingBear

Cool project for electric busses in Switzerland:
Would be lovely to have an electric bus system that didn't rely on overhead lines.

Flash Charging Electric Bus System

Isn't the bus using the same technology as those used in Shanghai? I think Shanghai has been operating them for a while.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3rg-SsPJuU

[SquattingBear]

Yes it seems very similar.
I think really the only difference is that it seems the one in Shanghai is always powered whereas the one from Geneva seems to only turn on the juice when the bus is docked. More of a safety thing than anything.

Last thing you need is stupid teenagers throwing things up between the contacts.

Originally Posted by RicoLance21

Isn't the bus using the same technology as those used in Shanghai? I think Shanghai has been operating them for a while.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3rg-SsPJuU

[YYCguys]

Speaking of Lynwood, is it still a ghost town in there, or is there hope that, someday in the near future, those houses will be reinhabited?

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by fusili

Just as a counterpoint take the north crosstown route. It connects the Research Park, UofC, Alberta Children's Hospital, Foothills Hospital, SAIT and Peter Lougheed Centre. Three hospitals and two post secondary institutions. Plus it runs along 16th avenue and through fairly dense residential neighbourhoods.

And no offence, but the potential for redevelopment along the SE line is pretty dismal:

Crossroads Market- Pretty much no potential for redevelopment. Industrial land, especially inner city industrial land, in Calgary is at an absolute premium, and there is very little chance these properties will redevelop.
Highfield All industrial.
Lynnwood station: located on a former refinery, so very little potential for development there for some time.
Ogden- Some residential densification and the CP office here.
South Hill- Located beside the Glenmore overpass and fairly close to the former Ogden landfill.
Quarry Park- Landfill and fertilizer stacks- 450m setbacks from both IIRC
Douglasglen- Also really close to the fertilizer stacks. Very little potential for residential development.
48th Street- Guess what? Fertilizer stacks!!!!
Prestwick- Finally some potential for more development. Only had to travel 17km to get here too!


PS- The crosstown BRT is the BRT from Westbrook to Heritage (and on to Quarry Park).

You are correct, the SE LRT doesn't have the same TOD potential as 16th ave, 36th street or the south LRT line but that doesn't mean the potential is not there.

The fertilizer plant is only used for storage and hasn't produced anything since the late 80's. I doubt the land is very valuable, once the LRT goes in it will probably sell to a developer

I think the Crossroads, Lynwood and Ogden areas have a good TOD opportunity. In Crossroads you have the whole hillside south of 26th ave to build something cool, not to mention the opportunity with the crossroads market to be converted into something better than just a weekend flea market.

At Lynwood station the Millican hill has an amazing view of the city at night and with some soil treatment recovery the hill and the old refinery park could support some kind of mixed use.

The Ogden yards could support a redevelopment that Ramsay Exchange was suppose to undergo. The yard has some pretty interesting buildings dating back to WWI.

The reason I want to see the SE BRT/LRT get the green light and go ahead first, is because I think it will take more cars off the road than any other transit project in Calgary(IMHO).

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

Speaking of Lynwood, is it still a ghost town in there, or is there hope that, someday in the near future, those houses will be reinhabited?

It is still a ghost town and the road is closed off at the top of the hill.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

You are correct, the SE LRT doesn't have the same TOD potential as 16th ave, 36th street or the south LRT line but that doesn't mean the potential is not there.

The fertilizer plant is only used for storage and hasn't produced anything since the late 80's. I doubt the land is very valuable, once the LRT goes in it will probably sell to a developer Industrial only. AFAIK, AB environment would restrict any residential on the former phosphogypsum stacks

I think the Crossroads, Lynwood and Ogden areas have a good TOD opportunity. In Crossroads you have the whole hillside south of 26th ave to build something cool, not to mention the opportunity with the crossroads market to be converted into something better than just a weekend flea market. Building on a hillside is expensive and difficult

At Lynwood station the Millican hill has an amazing view of the city at night and with some soil treatment recovery the hill and the old refinery park could support some kind of mixed use. Again, this would require significant remediation and cost

The Ogden yards could support a redevelopment that Ramsay Exchange was suppose to undergo. The yard has some pretty interesting buildings dating back to WWI. I see no reason why Ogden yards would be redeveloped. They are still in operation

The reason I want to see the SE BRT/LRT get the green light and go ahead first, is because I think it will take more cars off the road than any other transit project in Calgary(IMHO).

See above comments in bold. None of these are good development sites. All have serious environmental or geotechnical issues. It's really clutching at straws. Compare any of these sites to Westbrook, Heritage, Brentwood, Chinook, etc. Why would someone want to build residential adjacent to a landfill when there are numerous other TOD sites to focus on?

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by fusili

See above comments in bold. None of these are good development sites. All have serious environmental or geotechnical issues. It's really clutching at straws. Compare any of these sites to Westbrook, Heritage, Brentwood, Chinook, etc. Why would someone want to build residential adjacent to a landfill when there are numerous other TOD sites to focus on?

I hear what you are saying, I agree that Westbrook and several other sites around the City are better situated for redevelopment and the S.E. TOD sites have many challenges facing them. But to write off the (limited)potential of the S.E. TOD and then complain about urban sprawl in this city? (That don't make sense to Karl Malone). What happened to the ssp Calgary dream of a higher density city?

The landfill at QP is a dry landfill, Walden was built around B.F.I's dry landfill and Prestwick is just south of the city's sanitary landfill. The landfill at QP could be turned into a park or something, lots of commercial/industrial development could be built around it on the east side, residential could go north close to south hill and where the trailer parks are now.

https://www.calgary.ca/PDA/LUPP/Document...e-calgary-landfills-map.pdf?noredirect=1

[Rusty van Reddick]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

In Crossroads you have the whole hillside south of 26th ave to build something cool, not to mention the opportunity with the crossroads market to be converted into something better than just a weekend flea market.

Have you even been to Crossroads in the last year? It's always been more- much more- than a "weekend flea market" and a lot of that aspect has been removed. It's an amazing place and there are offices on the second level (one being my partner's).

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by fusili

See above comments in bold. None of these are good development sites. All have serious environmental or geotechnical issues. It's really clutching at straws. Compare any of these sites to Westbrook, Heritage, Brentwood, Chinook, etc. Why would someone want to build residential adjacent to a landfill when there are numerous other TOD sites to focus on?

Hasn’t the remediation been done In Lynwood? Who would be responsible if more needs to be done? I’m not sure what fertilizer stacks are, but if remediation need to be done for them who would be responsible it? As for why people would develop these areas, I would say money (potentially cheaper land), location (the river and other amenities), and proximity to very good public transit that would take you downtown in less than 15 minutes on a silky smooth dedicated busway.

Beyond the immediate corridor down to QP, however, let’s not forget about all the people and employment centers south of QP. If these people had the option of taking top quality rapid transit that for a good chunk of the route took a dedicated roadway right into downtown, don’t you think many would choose that option? How many people want to be stuck in traffic on Glenmore or Deerfoot? The time savings we’re talking about are huge, about a half hour per day for commuters and maybe more if there was enough volume to run express busses down to QP, and the quality of the ride on the dedicated roadway would be top notch.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I hear what you are saying, I agree that Westbrook and several other sites around the City are better situated for redevelopment and the S.E. TOD sites have many challenges facing them. But to write off the (limited)potential of the S.E. TOD and then complain about urban sprawl in this city? (That don't make sense to Karl Malone). What happened to the ssp Calgary dream of a higher density city?

The landfill at QP is a dry landfill, Walden was built around B.F.I's dry landfill and Prestwick is just south of the city's sanitary landfill. The landfill at QP could be turned into a park or something, lots of commercial/industrial development could be built around it on the east side, residential could go north close to south hill and where the trailer parks are now.

https://www.calgary.ca/PDA/LUPP/Document...e-calgary-landfills-map.pdf?noredirect=1

I don't think anybody is disagreeing that some redevelopment could occur along the SE line, and that some ridership increases would occur. If a genie gave Nenshi an unlimited budget for transit, then sure I'd want the SELRT built.

But until the genie shows up, there are a lot of potential transit corridors that could use improvement in the city, and maybe we should improve the corridors with less limited redevelopment potential, and higher ridership.

It's also interesting that three of the seven alternatives in the report serve the SE, including the #3 and #4 alternatives, yet if this specific project is not considered #1, the fix is in. (The SE is already on the receiving end of the biggest road project currently being built, it should be noted.)

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

Have you even been to Crossroads in the last year? It's always been more- much more- than a "weekend flea market" and a lot of that aspect has been removed. It's an amazing place and there are offices on the second level (one being my partner's).

I actually have not been since last summer, however I have never been to the offices upstairs. I've always thought it was an interesting building and its great that it wasn't demolished. I find the concept is a great idea but a lot of the shops are kind of trashy. I'm not putting the place down, I just think it could be better utilized.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

I don't think anybody is disagreeing that some redevelopment could occur along the SE line, and that some ridership increases would occur. If a genie gave Nenshi an unlimited budget for transit, then sure I'd want the SELRT built.

But until the genie shows up, there are a lot of potential transit corridors that could use improvement in the city, and maybe we should improve the corridors with less limited redevelopment potential, and higher ridership.

It's also interesting that three of the seven alternatives in the report serve the SE, including the #3 and #4 alternatives, yet if this specific project is not considered #1, the fix is in. (The SE is already on the receiving end of the biggest road project currently being built, it should be noted.)

In your opinion which ones would this include?

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

I don't think anybody is disagreeing that some redevelopment could occur along the SE line, and that some ridership increases would occur. If a genie gave Nenshi an unlimited budget for transit, then sure I'd want the SELRT built.

But until the genie shows up, there are a lot of potential transit corridors that could use improvement in the city, and maybe we should improve the corridors with less limited redevelopment potential, and higher ridership.

It's also interesting that three of the seven alternatives in the report serve the SE, including the #3 and #4 alternatives, yet if this specific project is not considered #1, the fix is in. (The SE is already on the receiving end of the biggest road project currently being built, it should be noted.)

I love the BRT projects planned for the city.

But do you think there is another project that could take as many cars off the road as the SETWAY?

I know I'm using a single metric to justify this project, but someone has to lead the vanguard in the war against cars! I wish Rick bell would have read that.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I love the BRT projects planned for the city.

But do you think there is another project that could take as many cars off the road as the SETWAY?

I know I'm using a single metric to justify this project, but someone has to lead the vanguard in the war against cars! I wish Rick bell would have read that.

Just being devil's advocate:

NC LRT. 150K people in the corridor compared to ~95K and both have similar levels of planned growth.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by fusili

Just being devil's advocate:

NC LRT. 150K people in the corridor compared to ~95K and both have similar levels of planned growth.

NC LRT:

Bus Riders -> LRT Riders

SE LRT:

Car Drivers -> LRT Riders

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

NC LRT:

Bus Riders -> LRT Riders

SE LRT:

Car Drivers -> LRT Riders

Bus riders convert to LRT riders at a significantly greater rate than drivers do to transit users. In fact I would posture that you will see next to no change in vehicle volumes in the SE if the SETWAY goes ahead.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by Allan83

I’m not sure what fertilizer stacks are, but if remediation need to be done for them who would be responsible it?

Let me speak to this. I worked on the site for years and had many talks with some of the people responsible for the remediation on the stacks.

A 'fertilizer stack' is a waste pond, mostly filled with phosphogypsum, a by product of fertilizer production. The waste water discharged into the ponds evaporates, leaving the phosphogypsum stack behind. The former Westco plant is in the process of reclaiming its stacks, by removing the water and then capping the phosphogypsum with a gravel and soil layer. The phosphogypsum is slightly radioactive, so you can't use it for anything else. That's the main reason for the residential setback, I think it is about 600m. Don't start worrying about radiation - we are talking levels here exceeded by granite rock that you might have in your back yard. That is why industrial is allowed right against the stacks. In terms of what the stack can be used for post reclamation - not much. You can't dig into the ground at all, so no buildings, not even posts without a lot of cost to build a new barrier to the phosphogypsum. They might be used for playing fields or dog walking, but that is a long shot as the land is privately owned and I doubt the company would want to assume the potential liability for the minimal rent they might get.

I always thought the city was crazy to allow so much residential development in the deep SE, considering the wasteland of industrial and garbage dumps any LRT is going to have to pass first to get to any useful catchment area. I think deep SE residents are going to have to be happy with the SE ring road and some BRT services for a long time to come. There are many competing projects that have better cost per person potential. I shudder to think what commuting will be like once the area is fully built out - which is when something like LRT would be worth building.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I love the BRT projects planned for the city.

But do you think there is another project that could take as many cars off the road as the SETWAY?

I know I'm using a single metric to justify this project, but someone has to lead the vanguard in the war against cars! I wish Rick bell would have read that.

Sure.

Centre Street Transitway: 2.1M increase
North Crosstown BRT: 2M increase
South Crosstown BRT: 1.7M increase
Southwest Transitway: 1.3M increase
Southeast Transitway: 1.2M increase
17th Ave SE Transitway: 500K increase
West Campus Mobility: 200K increase

Looks to me like there are four projects with higher ridership than the SE transitway, two of them with almost double the ridership.

It's also worth noting that the SETWAY has almost double the capital cost of the other projects. Not individually -- double the cost of all six of them added together.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why it isn't a slam dunk case to spend $120M to get 2.1 million more riders, or $40M to get 1.3 million more riders, rather than $642M to get 1.2 million.