PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[toxteth o'grady]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Still, the Orange Line experience shows how well-planned TOD along a major transit line can work together to create something pretty special, and I actually think we are well on our way with how the Shadyside and East Liberty corridor is coming together (and I believe Homewood and Wilkinsburg will get in on the action as well in coming years).

The Ballston neighborhood has gotten incredibly dense, even within the past year. Some places that I used to pass are gone.

[AaronPGH]

Extremely excited about the real-time tracking for PAT now. It's been a long time coming.

I know they're broke, but I think they should be talking about all the improvements they're making. MTA does an amazing job of highlighting everything new they're doing and why it's going to make your life better. An ad campaign could do wonders for their public perception.

You see these types of things all over the system. Signs, on tickets, etc:

[AaronPGH]

Austin, you be creepin' on my haus. Nice pics. The PGHBox blog took some really nice shots of the inside of my place if any of you guys are interested (although they definitely added a whole bunch of hipster crap decorations that aren't normally there - lookin' at you, bed lights and deer)

It's a great blog to follow:
http://pghbox.com/?p=854

[BrianTH]

So much of what PAT can do depends on what budget bucket you are talking about, due to the rules limiting where certain funds can be spent. I believe the real-time tracking is coming out of the capital bucket, which is in relatively good shape--it is the operating bucket which is in terrible shape due to state subsidy cuts, fuel cost increases, baked-in retirement costs, and so forth. So if promoting things like real-time could also come out of the capital bucket that would be fine, but if instead it would come out of operations they would have to be very careful about how much they spent.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by PGHFan

"The model I'd like to use for East Liberty, and other stops along the East Busway for that matter, is the communities along the Orange Line (Metro) in Arlington, VA, just outside of DC. From the top, this is Ballston, Clarendon, Court House, and then part of Rosslyn."

These are two ugly areas. We can only hope that the awful architecture, style, and jumbled placement of buildings in these "models" would not be replicated.

If Pittsburgh can pull off development that is half as good as what is present and what continues to rapidly go on along the Orange Line from Rosslyn to Ballston in the East End, Strip, Arena site, then Pittsburgh will be in great shape.

[pghusa]

Just like Buckhead has 1 major expressway and 2 adjacent ones, Arlington has I-66 and I-395 as well as the Geo. Washington Memorial Expressway. The key here is an extension of Bigelow or a Expresswayization of the busway, subway or street cars are great but no major employer or corporate office will commit to an area of the city without ample inter-modal connections to the region's major hubs.

I.e. Cranberry going from farmland to a major center with the completion of I-279 and now Kennywood lobbying HARD for the Mon-Fay to connect so they can stop losing patrons because of a lack of expressway.

Also waaayyy back when the Pennsylvania Railroad used to have a train station at East Liberty, doubt Amtrak would do that but commuter rail, street car and expressway extensions into East Liberty are musts.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

Austin, you be creepin' on my haus. Nice pics. The PGHBox blog took some really nice shots of the inside of my place if any of you guys are interested (although they definitely added a whole bunch of hipster crap decorations that aren't normally there - lookin' at you, bed lights and deer)

It's a great blog to follow:
http://pghbox.com/?p=854

Yes, I was creepin & peepin.


Killer interiors! Nice place.

[BrianTH]

It is true I-66 is roughly running parallel to the Orange Line, about 1/2 a mile away give or take. But those clusters of dense development I noted are all around the Metro Stations, not so much the I-66 exits.

Edit: Oh, and I gather Google doesn't count as a "major employer or corporate office"?

[Steel City Scotty]

Is there still an interest in having a few posters from this board meet up in the city at some point in the not-too-distant future?

I realize this is a little last minute, but I just found out that I'll be spending the day of Sunday, June 16 in Pittsburgh.

That's Father's Day, and it might not work for many people, but I at least wanted to throw it out as an option. If not, I should be back in the city during a weekend in August.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by DKNewYork

Hi guys,
Have been an avid reader of he Pittsburgh page for years but just registered so I can occaisonally weigh in. Developements in Pittsburgh are really exciting to see. Grew up in the South Hills but live in Manhattan now. Keep up the good work.

I also would like to welcome you to the forum! I see you hail from the Sahthills, so which part are you from? I'm a displaced fighting highlander (Baldwin-Whitehall) currently residing in Downingtown, PA, but I still check up with "home" to check it aht n'at...

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The model I'd like to use for East Liberty, and other stops along the East Busway for that matter, is the communities along the Orange Line (Metro) in Arlington, VA, just outside of DC. From the top, this is Ballston, Clarendon, Court House, and then part of Rosslyn:



Better shot of Rosslyn with DC in the background:



Obviously DC is an overall bigger City, and the Metro is a bit more heavy duty than the East Busway, and DC's height regulations have helped push highrises into Virginia, and so on. Still, the Orange Line experience shows how well-planned TOD along a major transit line can work together to create something pretty special, and I actually think we are well on our way with how the Shadyside and East Liberty corridor is coming together (and I believe Homewood and Wilkinsburg will get in on the action as well in coming years).

I know what you meant by those two pictures, and I too would like to see this type of density. I think considering the type of construction we're seeing in East Liberty, I don't think we'll have anything to worry about, God-willing!

Oh, and Austinlee, thanks for posting that pic; apparently that turd of a building is still there. Is it even in use? Get rid of the damn thing!!

[biscuit]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

I know what you meant by those two pictures, and I too would like to see this type of density. I think considering the type of construction we're seeing in East Liberty, I don't think we'll have anything to worry about, God-willing!

Considering that:
1) Most property is either tied up by a couple of monolithic owners with little interest in selling and/or is way over-valued;
2) Current zoning in Pittsburgh doesn't allow that kind of density and height;
3) And there are very vocal and entrenched community groups that have traditionally resisted or opposed large scale projects...

We may be waiting a while for anything resembling Arlington to happen along Pittsburgh's eastern transit corridor.

[BrianTH]

Obviously the current zoning limits and community opposition are serious short-term issues. Whether they are long-term issues depends a bit on how the political situation in the City evolves as the population mix changes (and it is starting to change pretty rapidly).

Of course if the demand is there and the City won't accommodate it, that will be an opportunity for bordering municipalities like Wilkinsburg to fill that gap (as in fact happened in the case of DC/NoVA).

[GeneW]

So I have an odd question for the experts here: Does anyone know where the neighborhoods of Ormsby, Montooth, Northern Liberties and Union were? I was in the council chambers in the City County building a few weeks ago for a function and noticed that there were medallions in the ceiling with names of Pittsburgh neighborhoods and most of which I recognized but a few that I didn't.

[GeneW]

Update: I've found two of them on the 1890 map on the Pittviewer site. Ormsby was where Southside Works is now. Union is marked as the Banksville/Beechview area.

[fizzard]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

DAMN!!!!!!!

Well, to be fair, it didn't look that good the whole way 'round.

http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i...ryid=x-715.286682.cp;viewid=286682CP.TIF

[fizzard]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Update: I've found two of them on the 1890 map on the Pittviewer site. Ormsby was where Southside Works is now. Union is marked as the Banksville/Beechview area.

Montooth was the west part of what is now Beltzhoover neighborhood (west of Montooth Street).

Northern Liberties was the portion of the Strip District between Downtown and about 18th Street, give or take a couple blocks.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by fizzard

Montooth was the west part of what is now Beltzhoover neighborhood (west of Montooth Street).

Northern Liberties was the portion of the Strip District between Downtown and about 18th Street, give or take a couple blocks.

Awesome, thanks.

By the way, The City County building is pretty amazing inside. Hornbostel was an underrated genius.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Obviously the current zoning limits and community opposition are serious short-term issues. Whether they are long-term issues depends a bit on how the political situation in the City evolves as the population mix changes (and it is starting to change pretty rapidly).

Of course if the demand is there and the City won't accommodate it, that will be an opportunity for bordering municipalities like Wilkinsburg to fill that gap (as in fact happened in the case of DC/NoVA).

Agreed. I think the zoning permits that are there now are not exactly applicable to what is best for the city. Considering the state of the city, the zoning is going to have to change to more properly and adequately accommodate the growth that is currently happening and will continue to happen.

Hell, here in Downingtown, the tallest structure is probably 3 or 4 stories, and we just updated our zoning ordinance to include a CBD and height overlay -- basically indicating a minimum height requirement for new development within that overlay district.

Downingtown is a small borough of roughly 7k in Chester County. I can't imagine what a zoning change would do for a (growing) commercial center of a large city.

[Jonboy1983]

Oh, um, my wife and I are coming to the Burgh tomorrow and spending the day there on Thursday before heading to Niagara Falls on Friday. What is there to do on a rainy day? I see there's an 80% chance of rain...

[joenicholas9]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Update: I've found two of them on the 1890 map on the Pittviewer site. Ormsby was where Southside Works is now. Union is marked as the Banksville/Beechview area.

While I was researching for a paper last month, I found out that the Ormsby family was the original land holder of the South Side. Sidney, Jane, Mary, and Sarah Streets are actually all named after daughters of the family.

*End random history fact*