PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II - Page 203

markson33 · #**4041** Posted **Jun 2, 2013, 12:02 PM**

Great pictures Austinlee. It's such a shame that the East End Savings building is gone. Don't forget about Broad Street and the Indigo Hotel. That area is going to be the hub of East Liberty in a couple of years - it will be what Bakery Square wanted to be. Mark my words!

I generally agree with Peduto's vision for residential development downtown, but I am concerned about the effect that forced development might have on pricing. If 20,000 units are added in the next ten years, it may artificially keep rents low, which limits developers ability to build without government assistance.

BrianTH · #**4042** Posted **Jun 2, 2013, 1:10 PM**

I'd love to see some of the vacant lots and crappy late-20th C. low-rises in East Liberty replaced with some 10+ story buildings to provide the Highland Building with some company. Unfortunately, as much as it has come along, for now at least I think the market is going to dictate somewhat shorter infill. Nonetheless, it is still going to be fantastic if all (or most) of the planned projects (e.g., Indigo, Ace, Odeon, Transit Center, and BKSQ 2.0) get done, and there will still be space available down the road.

BrianTH · #**4043** Posted **Jun 2, 2013, 1:31 PM**

Peduto makes a good case for the City and County splitting the local contribution for Greater Downtown projects, and fortunately Fitzgerald is on board. Hopefully the public in the County sees the appeal as well--we should all take pride in our Downtown and it is definitely an engine of growth for the whole County (and all this is speaking as a non-City resident).

BrianTH · #**4044** Posted **Jun 2, 2013, 1:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markson33

I generally agree with Peduto's vision for residential development downtown, but I am concerned about the effect that forced development might have on pricing. If 20,000 units are added in the next ten years, it may artificially keep rents low, which limits developers ability to build without government assistance.

So rents have been increasing even as Downtown has been adding units. I think part of what is going on is that Downtown is becoming a better and better place to live as more residents move in, in part because they support more local amenities on nights and weekends, so potential demand growth is keeping up with supply growth and allowing price appreciation. There may be a limit to that sort of feedback between additional residents and additional potential demand, but I suspect 20,000 units is within that limit, particularly given the Greater Downtown area as defined by Peduto. And of course we have plenty of precedents along those lines to follow, not the least of which is right in PA (City Center in Philly).

BrianTH · #**4045** Posted **Jun 2, 2013, 2:33 PM**

This is pretty huge--real-time tracking is coming to PAT, with smartphone maps and all:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news...track-buses-in-pittsburgh-region-690023/

Brentsters · #**4046** Posted **Jun 2, 2013, 3:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTH

This is pretty huge--real-time tracking is coming to PAT, with smartphone maps and all:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news...track-buses-in-pittsburgh-region-690023/

This is definitely huge. Nice to see they're modeling it after Chicago's CTA tracker. I've used that one extensively and generally it's very accurate.

Minivan Werner · #**4047** Posted **Jun 2, 2013, 3:10 PM**

If and when the market for high rises sparks back up, and with the CBD bursting at the seams, I think East Liberty would be a great spot for some mid-to-high rise commercial & residential developments. It could be to downtown Pittsburgh what Buckhead is to downtown Atlanta.

Jonboy1983 · #**4048** Posted **Jun 2, 2013, 3:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlee

DAMN!!!!!!!

http://bradystewartphoto.photoshelter.com/image/I0000yK02rkI2E34

For a second there, I thought someone photoshopped the Carlisle into East Liberty. I'm not sure what I'm more pissed off at -- the fact that this building no longer exists or the fact that in its place is a single-story brutalist monstrosity. Is that thing still there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'd love to see some of the vacant lots and crappy late-20th C. low-rises in East Liberty replaced with some 10+ story buildings to provide the Highland Building with some company. Unfortunately, as much as it has come along, for now at least I think the market is going to dictate somewhat shorter infill. Nonetheless, it is still going to be fantastic if all (or most) of the planned projects (e.g., Indigo, Ace, Odeon, Transit Center, and BKSQ 2.0) get done, and there will still be space available down the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

If and when the market for high rises sparks back up, and with the CBD bursting at the seams, I think East Liberty would be a great spot for some mid-to-high rise commercial & residential developments. It could be to downtown Pittsburgh what Buckhead is to downtown Atlanta.

I have often thought about mid-to-highrise developments going up in East Liberty, and I too would like to see it happen.

On a side note about Bill Peduto, I like his vision and ideas for Downtown, and I agree that the county needs to get on board. What happens in Pittsburgh will have an effect on the entire region. About supposedly 20,000 residential units going up. I think the market is going to warrant that at some point. As of right now, the city can't build apartments fast enough to keep up with demand. Given that, I do not see any decrease in rents coming any time soon...

That would truly be something -- for Downtown Pittsburgh to be home to at least 30,000 residents...

GeneW · #**4049** Posted **Jun 2, 2013, 4:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTH

This is pretty huge--real-time tracking is coming to PAT, with smartphone maps and all:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news...track-buses-in-pittsburgh-region-690023/

Only about a decade late but very cool nonetheless.

Austinlee · #**4050** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 1:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

I'm not sure what I'm more pissed off at -- the fact that this building no longer exists or the fact that in its place is a single-story brutalist monstrosity. Is that thing still there?

Yes, feast upon the replacement structure on the left! Magnificent!

glowrock · #**4051** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 1:20 AM**

Thanks for those photos, Austin. Other than the obvious disaster that was the destruction of that beautiful old tower, at least East Liberty is seeing a vast amount of improvement and redevelopment, and can hopefully restore the luster of what it once had. Frankly, I think the entire East Liberty area is going to be vastly improved (including places like Garfield, maybe even parts of Larimer) in the next five years!

Aaron (Glowrock)

DKNewYork · #**4052** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 3:34 AM**

Hi guys,
Have been an avid reader of he Pittsburgh page for years but just registered so I can occaisonally weigh in. Developements in Pittsburgh are really exciting to see. Grew up in the South Hills but live in Manhattan now. Keep up the good work.

pghusa · #**4053** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 8:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKNewYork

Hi guys,
Have been an avid reader of he Pittsburgh page for years but just registered so I can occaisonally weigh in. Developements in Pittsburgh are really exciting to see. Grew up in the South Hills but live in Manhattan now. Keep up the good work.

Welcome to the forum and thanks for participating DKNewYork!

pghusa · #**4054** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 8:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

If and when the market for high rises sparks back up, and with the CBD bursting at the seams, I think East Liberty would be a great spot for some mid-to-high rise commercial & residential developments. It could be to downtown Pittsburgh what Buckhead is to downtown Atlanta.

I'd love to see this, however Buckhead has the HUGE advantage of 400 (and I-75 and I-85 close too), not to mix metaphors but just on raw growth the completion of I-279 from downtown in the late 80s launched Cranberry. I would love to see the powers that be extend a few limited access intersections on a Bigelow Blvd. expansion east or possibly widen and expresswayize the MLK busway to provide a transportation advantage, and yes please get some streetcars via the Strip and Bloomfield.

BrianTH · #**4055** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 10:54 AM**

The model I'd like to use for East Liberty, and other stops along the East Busway for that matter, is the communities along the Orange Line (Metro) in Arlington, VA, just outside of DC. From the top, this is Ballston, Clarendon, Court House, and then part of Rosslyn:

Better shot of Rosslyn with DC in the background:

Obviously DC is an overall bigger City, and the Metro is a bit more heavy duty than the East Busway, and DC's height regulations have helped push highrises into Virginia, and so on. Still, the Orange Line experience shows how well-planned TOD along a major transit line can work together to create something pretty special, and I actually think we are well on our way with how the Shadyside and East Liberty corridor is coming together (and I believe Homewood and Wilkinsburg will get in on the action as well in coming years).

BrianTH · #**4056** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 10:57 AM**

Article with some details on the ongoing renovation of the Prospect School into residences on Mt Washington:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/loca...gh-school-transformed-into-lofts-690127/

PGHFan · #**4057** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 12:13 PM**

"The model I'd like to use for East Liberty, and other stops along the East Busway for that matter, is the communities along the Orange Line (Metro) in Arlington, VA, just outside of DC. From the top, this is Ballston, Clarendon, Court House, and then part of Rosslyn."

These are two ugly areas. We can only hope that the awful architecture, style, and jumbled placement of buildings in these "models" would not be replicated.

Steel City Scotty · #**4058** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 1:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

If and when the market for high rises sparks back up, and with the CBD bursting at the seams, I think East Liberty would be a great spot for some mid-to-high rise commercial & residential developments. It could be to downtown Pittsburgh what Buckhead is to downtown Atlanta.

It's funny you say that...

In the tourism article that Evergrey recently posted, former Steelers' wide receiver, Hines Ward, had this to say about one of his favorite places in the city...

Quote:

Neighborhood Wander // Shadyside. Since I'm from Atlanta, the area reminds me of Buckhead. It's a unique place, very trendy, with a lot of different shops and boutiques. thinkshadyside.com

themaguffin · #**4059** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 2:51 PM**

I like those areas of NoVa and think there are aspects to carry over. East Liberty has more "room" than other parts of the city for growth. I wish Oakland would tap into its potential better though.

In any case, I would expect whatever happens in East Liberty to be more urban than Northern Virginia and certainly more urban than Buckhead.

BrianTH · #**4060** Posted **Jun 3, 2013, 2:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGHFan

We can only hope that the awful architecture, style, and jumbled placement of buildings in these "models" would not be replicated.

Well, for good or ill "jumbled placement" is more or less a given, since we lack any sort of master street grid and we are talking about infill into existing neighborhoods. But one thing I do think we will see in Pittsburgh that will be a bit of a contrast with Arlington's TOD is just an overall tighter grid, precisely because we will be infilling into existing neighborhoods with tighter grids already in place.

And then in terms of the overall mix of architectural styles it will inevitably be quite different. The Pittsburgh neighborhoods in question have historic structures the Arlington neighborhoods largely lack, and conversely as I understand it the construction boom in these Arlington areas really launched at the same time the Metro opened in 1976. Accordingly, what you are seeing in Arlington is at least a pretty large percentage of 1970s-1990s vintage design, which is not necessarily all that attractive to contemporary eyes.

So even assuming there is a construction boom coming (and that is really less an assumption than a fact when it comes to the Shadyside/East Liberty portion) what we are going to end up with is a mix of historic buildings Arlington largely doesn't have and also a relatively higher percentage of buildings reflecting 21st Century design preferences.

Of course in 20-40 years, the people of the future might think that what we are building now and in the near future in East Liberty et al pretty much sucks, and they might even be starting to romanticize the designs of the 1970s and 1980s. That's just how the cycle of architectural preferences tends to work. In any event, I was certainly not offering up Arlington as a model in terms of architectural styles, but just in terms of the overall intensity of uses near the Orange Line Metro stations.