Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[delts145]

I remember UtPlanner saying something about the ground being more troublesome than anticipated. Maybe Utah Planner has an update on the subject. Hopefully, they're not encountering financial difficulties.

[Stenar]

John Martin, if you were paying attention, you would have seen that this line was said by Comrade Reynolds claiming this was said by me previously, NOT ACTUALLY BY me:

"Grand America, 99 West and the Chase Bldg are ugly, poor imitations of other styles, etc. But not as ugly as some other buildings."

Originally Posted by John Martin

Uh, seriously?



This thread is just embarrassing.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Stenar

John Martin, if you were paying attention, you would have seen that this line was said by Comrade Reynolds claiming this was said by me previously, NOT ACTUALLY BY me:

"Grand America, 99 West and the Chase Bldg are ugly, poor imitations of other styles, etc. But not as ugly as some other buildings."

It was actually said by you:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5986477&postcount=2281

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Maybe it's time for a change in subject, but can anybody guess to why the LaPorte Development on State Street is so freaking slow? These guys have broken ground some time last year and already I think 101 Tower site has more to show and they broke ground last month. Sure I know we have a long cold winter. But these guys wasn't the only development over the winter months and everybody else is moving along just fine. Are they some funding issues going on? Is this development even still moving forward? I drive by it once a week and for the last two months it looks the same.

It's going to be really depressing if we demolished those buildings, the project stalls and we're forced to put a parking lot there until another developer decides to build on that site.

For what it's worth, the original end date for the project was to be Thanksgiving, 2013 and I'm pretty sure they won't meet that deadline.

[Future Mayor]

As I drove around the city today, scouting properties, I noticed that the LaPorte crane was in the down, not in use position. How pathetic.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Comrade Reynolds

It was actually said by you:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5986477&postcount=2281

Fair enough. Grand America is uglyish, but also has some redeeming qualities, which a lot of other buildings don't have.

[Dallas Snob]

LMAO! I visit the SLC threads every day because I lived there for 15 years ago and am very interested in seeing the city grow and develop. But lately, I simply visit them to start my day with a good laugh! You guys are beyond funny with your continual who can best who and who knows more than anyone else....and I LOVE the retorts of "if you were paying attention" or; "if you had done your research"...those in particular make me roll on the floor clutching my sides with spasms of pure joy! Becasue, of course, the self-appointed expert never makes mistakes, and knows all!

These threads are some of the most unwelcoming and hostile I have read on SSP.com. And GOD FORBID someone else comes along and makes a comment on your sacred thread. They can expect an immediate pile up.

Try to lighten up a little guys, and make this a better experience for everybody. Speaking from experience; it's no fun when you run everybody out of the sandbox and are left to play all alone.

Just saying.

[Lilljemalm]

Bloomberg.com has 2 videos about Goldman Sachs SLC operation - how it's their fastest growing and that it's a global operation.

And amen Dallas Snob. These guys are getting nasty lately.

[jimmycdii]

I just emailed the Gateway management asking them to bring in a grocery store. It may not have much impact, but at least it's something. (I found the contact info on this page, in case anyone else cares: http://www.shopthegateway.com/about-the-gateway/contact-us)

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Lilljemalm

Bloomberg.com has 2 videos about Goldman Sachs SLC operation - how it's their fastest growing and that it's a global operation.

And amen Dallas Snob. These guys are getting nasty lately.

I have to admit, when I returned to my computer Monday evening and read the pages full of ranting, I became quite discouraged about the forum. Not so much that people are expressing their opinions. It's just the tone and the way in which some seem to often take the spirit of the discussion. I sometimes think I need to take a long vacation from even logging in.

I would respectfully request that the local moderator take a little more active daily role in this local forum, or allow Future Mayor or someone else to become the moderator.

While Cottonwood and I have had our differences in the past, I greatly respect and appreciate his daily involvement and participation in his local Boise Thread's forum development.

I would totally understand and sympathize if our current moderator is extremely busy. If so, then I would like to propose that Future Mayor be allowed to take the reigns.

I'm sure Future Mayor is also very busy, but he is very dedicated to checking in daily and patient in reminding forumers of repeated clarifications. Also, I think when the tone get's unecessarily overboard, he would be on top of it and respond in a manageable time frame.

Just so there's no misunderstanding by anyone. I have tremendous respect for Viperlord. NO ONE was more active in promoting Viper as our moderator than me. I also think there have been many occasions when his information has been among the most anticipated and groundbreaking we receive.

Viper, I'm just getting the impression that your overwhelmed with your own business development, and don't have the time you would like to nuture and mentor this local forum.

To be sure, you are greatly liked and appreciated by most if not all in the Mountain West Threads.

[scottharding]

While I don't entirely disagree with you, Delts, I take some hesitation with your example of another moderator from another city forum. We do not need a Gestapo-like enforcement here, with bans and suspensions given out liberally for differences of opinion.
It's the internet. Every now and again disagreements devolve into less-than respectful tones, but I think we've always been pretty good on this forum with not letting things get out of control in the end, and coming back to a place of thoughtful discussion.

I do, however, agree wholly that FutureMayor would make a good and fair moderator, along with Viperlord (can a region have more than one?).

[Comrade]

Who's getting nasty? Future, myself and Stenar might get testy here and there, but at the end of the day, we brush it off and move on.

People just need thicker skin. Hell, it's not like we're calling each other cock gobblers and twit (with an a) rags!

[RosePark]

I found this article, "Census says South Jordan is the country’s No. 2 boom town" in the SLTRIB to be quite interesting:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56350259-78/jordan-south-cities-lake.html.csp

There has been some discussion lately about how Utah has a relatively strong economy and some frustration that it's not being manifested in development in SLC. Unfortunately, the growth seems to be more sprawl than anything else. As long as people can keep expanding outward, there's no reason to build upward.

I always wonder how long it will be before Salt Lake City proper is not Utah's biggest city.

[scottharding]

The article indicates that the reason South Jordan is the valley boom-town is because it is the only city in the valley that still has room to sprawl. The writer states that it is the only area still with lots of undeveloped land.
The days of Sprawl and suburban style development in the Salt Lake Valley are numbered. Sprawl, by definition, gobbles up available land and is unsustainable. The land is about used up, and then if the valley is to grow, it must do so internally, which is already happening at a quickening pace.
I personally think Salt Lake will always be the most populous city in the region because of that same fact. As internal growth becomes the only option, Salt Lake is the best city currently equipped with the infrastructure to support that kind of development and most desirable for people who want an urban setting. Those who prefer the more traditional suburban lifestyle will find themselves further and further from the core.

Now I'm not saying there will be no more houses for families. In the past, people have mistaken my thoughts on this matter for that kind of blanket statement. Of course there will be, and should be houses, townhouses and low-density options. But smarter development will be necessary, and the houses in cul de sacs with three car-garages and huge lawns will no longer be built as the norm.

[John Martin]

Originally Posted by delts145

I would totally understand and sympathize if our current moderator is extremely busy. If so, then I would like to propose that Future Mayor be allowed to take the reigns.

I'm sure Future Mayor is also very busy, but he is very dedicated to checking in daily and patient in reminding forumers of repeated clarifications. Also, I think when the tone get's unecessarily overboard, he would be on top of it and respond in a manageable time frame.

Not to be argumentative, but I don't think he's exactly above the fray. This post is pretty pitiful (and I'm surprised someone running for public office would even say this):

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6136889&postcount=3923

You can't really have a healthy dialog if the 'coach' is characterizing someone's rationale as being complete bullshit, or constant bitching.

[Scraperdude801]

In the past, I have participated in these brutal discussions, and have concluded that they lead nowhere. For the past couple years I've tried to take a hiatus when the board descends into madness, and after a couple of weeks I usually find it back on track. I definitely don't want to see our threads regulated by outsiders in a fascist manner. Do you remember our closed threads? No thank you! With that being said, I don't think someone like Future Mayor would be a good candidate to moderate these forums, as he is often as overly and outwardly opinionated as the next.



I would personally nominate someone like UTPlanner, whose comments are in the vein of Viperlords: mostly informative, insightful, and grounded in facts.

A recent UTPlanner post:

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

Makid, I thought you may want to know that current height limits in the D-1 Central Business District allow unlimited height if a developer receives approval through the Conditional Building and Site Design Process meaning that their project will be held up to higher standards and must recieve approval for the design and layout from the Planning Commission. This meeting would also be a public hearing. This is true of corner building and mid-block buildings. Also buildings on corners in the D-1 may not be shorter than 100'.

A recent Future Mayor post:

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

WOW Comrade you continually Bitch bitch bitch about these two hotels, ...

Your rational about the shitty motel in Portland that has great street presence is total BS. ...

I do agree with you on the Cowboy Partners apartments on 5th W, but to say the street presence of those compared to the ESA hotels is the same is also ludicrous.

Vote UTPlanner for 2013 SSP Moderator!

[Stenar]

I don't claim to be an expert on anything.

I make LOADS of mistakes and am always willing to admit that.

I don't know everything.

And I LOVE debate on my posts.


God grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.

[End Skyscraperpage Forum Addicts Anonymous testimonial]

Originally Posted by Dallas Snob

LMAO! I visit the SLC threads every day because I lived there for 15 years ago and am very interested in seeing the city grow and develop. But lately, I simply visit them to start my day with a good laugh! You guys are beyond funny with your continual who can best who and who knows more than anyone else....and I LOVE the retorts of "if you were paying attention" or; "if you had done your research"...those in particular make me roll on the floor clutching my sides with spasms of pure joy! Becasue, of course, the self-appointed expert never makes mistakes, and knows all!

These threads are some of the most unwelcoming and hostile I have read on SSP.com. And GOD FORBID someone else comes along and makes a comment on your sacred thread. They can expect an immediate pile up.

Try to lighten up a little guys, and make this a better experience for everybody. Speaking from experience; it's no fun when you run everybody out of the sandbox and are left to play all alone.

Just saying.

[tadsol18]

PLEASE STOP! I'm so tired of the mean, negative comments. Be nice to each other. The buildings that are already built will not be changed. I'm so sick of coming here to read fun development news or cool facts about downtown, only to be discouraged. No more he said, she said! Lets get along, talk about new things, and in-courage new developments to spring up!

[jimmycdii]

Originally Posted by scottharding

I personally think Salt Lake will always be the most populous city in the region because of that same fact. As internal growth becomes the only option, Salt Lake is the best city currently equipped with the infrastructure to support that kind of development and most desirable for people who want an urban setting.

I agree with you for the reasons you mentioned. Also, I think Salt Lake is one of the few, and maybe the only, city to conceive of itself as a "city." I was living in Provo before I moved to SLC and there's a lot of interest there among city officials and a core of residents to go more urban.

But my sense was that most residents still saw the city as a small city, even a town, despite the fact that it's not technically that much smaller than SLC (60,000-ish residents, I think). They opposed things like infill (of any sort, ugh) and basically just wanted low density, single family homes everywhere. Which would be fine, except that single family neighborhoods in cities like Provo and Ogden begin fairly close their downtowns, so there's little room for dense development.

And Provo is projected to become the 2nd biggest city in Utah over the next generation (I've been pouring through census data for my job lately). I think in fast-growing but even more suburban cities like S. Jordan, WVC, Lehi etc., there is even less taste for high density development. Even if planners want to sustain the growth, I doubt residents are going to be willing to tear down swaths of dilapidated homes to put up mid-rises.

My sense is that while SLC still has NIMBY struggles, there's a large area that everyone agrees should at least be "urban." For that reason, it seems, it'll be able to move more quickly and efficiently toward the kind of development that most people on this forum (including me) favor.

So, in other words, I guess I'm saying attitudes in SLC may ultimately make the difference. Moving from one city to the other really emphasized this too me.

[jimmycdii]

So regarding the Broadway Park Lofts. They are beginning to seal off the ground units. Or, at least they put the first sliding, garage style door on one of them today. I imagine the other doors will follow. They're also framing the interior walls.

However, anyone can walk around the construction site right now (I just did five minutes ago). I thought that might interest some people here because you can get a sense of what the units will be like, the kind of construction, etc. I imagine that within a week or two you won't be able to actually walk inside the units themselves.

To do a self-guided, guerrilla construction tour, walk along either driveway. Just before the parking garage entrances there are small stairways going up to the "ground" floor (actually one floor above the street). To get into the construction site, go to the west side of the building. If that seems confusing, just wander around a bit and you'll find the way in. It's totally open and people who live here (and who don't) go in it all the time.

Just don't look homeless.