Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by elly63

First of all, find somewhere where I said I loved it.

I clearly wrote that you 'liked' it. There's no point in going any further if you're intent on twisting people's words around. You're free to like this project, but let's be fair. You've been rather insulting to a lot of people here for not agreeing with you... and continue to be so.

If people think it sucks, they're entitled to that assessment without being labeled juvenile by you. It's ridiculous that you think they need to validate their position to you. Give me a break.

It's also presumptuous and condescending of you to assume that their opinion hasn't taken variables like budget into consideration. When you treat people like idiots few will bother listening to anything you have to say. Would you?

[elly63]

I don't consider asking people to explain what the numerous issues (they claim there are) with the new stadium, insulting. If you think it is you had better start developing a thicker skin.

If you want to act like a kid, act like a kid. Just don't be surprised when you're called out.

I could care less if you wanna attack me, I made my points and those who were bitching just for the sake of bitching were exposed. Those who at least tried to explain their position were validated. Nuf ced.

[elly63]

Quebec's Olympic Stadium architect warns of 'major risk' with structure
sunnewsnetwork.ca May 17th, 2013

MONTREAL - As Quebec tries once again to install a roof on the problem-plagued Olympic Stadium, the building's creator has warned the premier about a "major risk" because of botched repair work.

French architect Roger Taillibert expressed his concerns about ongoing work on the massive building that has cost taxpayers $1.5 billion but sits largely unused.

The Olympic Installations Board is currently renovating part of the stadium structure, drilling holes in concrete to remove steel rods. But Taillibert wrote Premier Pauline Marois last month to warn that the renovation work is weakening the structure.

"Currently, work has been done...that should not have been," wrote the European architect, who has often criticized the construction and maintenance work of his Quebec counterparts.

"It must absolutely be stopped because it poses a major risk."

He says 18 of 37 concrete segments are cracked and require repairs.

Marois and the installations board both refused comment when contacted by QMI Agency.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by elly63

I don't consider asking people to explain what the numerous issues (they claim there are) with the new stadium, insulting. If you think it is you had better start developing a thicker skin.

If you want to act like a kid, act like a kid. Just don't be surprised when you're called out.

I could care less if you wanna attack me, I made my points and those who were bitching just for the sake of bitching were exposed. Those who at least tried to explain their position were validated. Nuf ced.

Sorry Elly, you are the one acting like a kid. We have all told you exactly what we think is wrong with it. To which your only response is that we are juvenile, and then you go on to list why we are juvenile for not liking something that you like. You have devolved this conversation into a ridiculous joke that for some reason has to be centered around you and your childish lack of any defense, so you quickly go on the offense. It's over, you need to stop. People do not like it and because of that you are acting like a clown. Have some self respect and concede that just because people don't agree with you, it doesn't mean there's anything is wrong with them or their rationale. You certainly are not a genius and no one else here has claimed to be, so stop trying to act so superior for Christs sake.

And now in a grand display of how mature you are, you try to shift focus on this failure of leadership and design (the new stadium), on to Montreal. Bravoooo sir, you win at maturity! lmao!

[elly63]

Alouettes launch lawsuit over stadium expansion contract
Andrew Peplowski CJAD Local News 5/15/2013

The Montreal Alouettes have filed a lawsuit against the architectural firm they hired to renovate McGill's Percival Molson Stadium.

The club hired the firm Werleman Guy McMahon in 2008 to add 5000 seats to the stadium.

But it claims that when the work was completed only 4578 were installed and in the process 26 seats in the southwest section were removed.

The club has calculated that the net loss of 448 seats over ten games a season with a stadium lease that runs to 2029 amounts to a little more than $2.8 million.

The lawsuit seeks the $2.8 million plus interest.

[Chadillaccc]

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Sorry Elly, you are the one acting like a kid. We have all told you exactly what we think is wrong with it. To which your only response is that we are juvenile, and then you go on to list why we are juvenile for not liking something that you like.

And now in a grand display of how mature you are, you try to shift focus on this failure of leadership and design (the new stadium), on to Montreal. Bravoooo sir, you win at maturity! lmao!

Sorry pally, If you think I'm deflecting the subject, I'm just posting the news as I always do. I'll go on about this subject for the next month if you want. You wanna dance, I'll dance, no problem.

You guys are getting personal now that the sides are evening up in the Hamilton stadium debate. Doesn't bother me. And all you ever did was bitch and your extent of explanation of bad architectural design was your "chicken wire" comment. Only one guy had the nads to back his opinion against the stadium and it wasn't you.

You guys are pathetic with your "conspiracy" crap. First you say the defenders of the stadium are swayed by their "inside" involvement and now I'm trying to deflect the argument. Let's stick to the debate, oh sorry, all you can do is say "it sucks"

I've said it a hundred times, I could care less if anybody likes the stadium or not, just don't say there are lots of reasons why it sucks and then run and hide, state your reasons.

[Chadillaccc]

Not even reading your response dude. That's enough... seriously. It's time to grow up.

[elly63]

It's a good time to bow out when you don't have a leg left to stand on

[elly63]

As I deftly deflect the Hamilton stadium debate (unless someone wants to keep going) here is a very interesting history, I found recently, of the whole Montreal Olympics and stadium story called The 1976 Montreal Olympics: A Case Study of a Project Management Failure.

If I read the report correctly it says "The final costs in 1976 were $1.5 billion dollars, with $836 million for the main stadium" which seems to contradict the general opinion that the stadium itself cost 1.5 billion. I notice it does say 1976.

Later it says "The final cost for the Stadium was approximately $13,000 per seat, compared to approximately $2,400 per seat for the Superdome in New Orleans, Louisiana, USA constructed at approximately the same time"

Anyway, the report is interesting reading.

[artvandelay]

Please disregard.

[elly63]

^Now that's a deflection

[elly63]

Originally Posted by elly63

Here is a very interesting history, I found recently, of the whole Montreal Olympics and stadium story called The 1976 Montreal Olympics: A Case Study of a Project Management Failure.

If I read the report correctly it says "The final costs in 1976 were $1.5 billion dollars, with $836 million for the main stadium" which seems to contradict the general opinion that the stadium itself cost 1.5 billion. I notice it does say 1976.

Found the answer:

Myth No. 4: The Stadium Cost A Lot And Took Years To Pay Off

In total, repaying the mortgage ($1.5 billion) for all the facilities combined - the Olympic Village and its subsequent conversion to rental apartments, the Velodrome and its conversion to the Biodome, and the Stadium and adjacent Sports Centre took 30 years. That’s not much for such massive structures. A mortgage on a house can take just as long to pay off.

So it looks like Olympic Stadium itself cost $836 million, a pretty hefty chunk of change.

Daybreak Montreal from CBC Radio: April 16, 2013
The CEO of the Olympic Park says why he thinks the Stadium roof should be repaired again. Segment starts at 22:43

Download Daybreak Montreal from CBC Radio: April 16, 2013

[Dr Awesomesauce]

@elly63

Yes, you won, dude. You truly are a master debater.

>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm still waiting for Frankie's response. It would appear that the only two people defending this stadium have personal and/ or professional connections to this project. Honestly, I didn't want to bring this up but certain people have injected themselves into this childish discussion, so I think we all need to come clean. I've come out of the proverbial closet - I'm a Hamiltonian - time for everybody else to reciprocate.

BTW, I understand the situation with BBVA stadium. I know we couldn't build that here for $100MM but it would have been nice to have at least had that discussion.

And that's where my anger lies. It's not just that Ivor Wynne II is disappointing but that we - the public - were at no point involved in this process. Everything was done by the Pan-Am people and Infrastructure Ontario. Even though the City of Hamilton is contributing $45.7MM to this project, we had no say. Is that the City's fault? Sure, they're idiots. But that's what makes this such a difficult pill to swallow.

Again, there's a lot of baggage coming with this stadium that few on this thread truly understand. If you're really curious why there's so much discontent, go back and skim through the Pan Am stadium thread in the Hamilton section. They teased us with a sexy new waterfront stadium but instead we've been given the equivalent of a serious dry-bumming. No lube. No sweet talk. No candle light dinner. Just a good ol' reaming.

p.s. I've always enjoyed this thread, so I apologise to those who find this tiring. I'm going to allow certain members to have one final go at me and then hang up my hat. Hopefully we can get back to discussing pretty pictures of stadia, etc., and leave this nonsense behind us.

[elly63]

It's not about winning it's about accountability. We are responsible for what we say and should at least try to back up our opinions. Well, better to be a master debater than a masturbater

My "connection" has nothing to do with my opinion, I won't speak for Frankie but if you go back and look at the posts there were more people who saw the issue the way we did than just the two of us.

When your tag is Prince of Hamiltonia it's not much of a surprise that you're from Hamilton. I'm not, which I s'pose allows me to be more detached. I can understand your disappointment and the feeling you were screwed by not getting the initial proposals but think back to the Commonwealth Games indicative drawings. IIRC they were not too dissimilar (very generally speaking) to what you're getting.



BMO is even less of a facility (amenity wise) and it has been embraced, why not IW2. How long will the anger/disappointment last and what good will it do to have the facility get off to a negative start? If all you want is a dog and a beer, and a football game, rejoice! Next year you'll have it.

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by elly63

It's not about winning it's about accountability. We are responsible for what we say and should at least try to back up our opinions. Well, better to be a master debater than a masturbater

My "connection" has nothing to do with my opinion, I won't speak for Frankie but if you go back and look at the posts there were more people who saw the issue the way we did than just the two of us.

When your tag is Prince of Hamiltonia it's not much of a surprise that you're from Hamilton. I'm not, which I s'pose allows me to be more detached. I can understand your disappointment and the feeling you were screwed by not getting the initial proposals but think back to the Commonwealth Games indicative drawings. IIRC they were not too dissimilar (very generally speaking) to what you're getting.



BMO is even less of a facility (amenity wise) and it has been embraced, why not IW2. How long will the anger/disappointment last and what good will it do to have the facility get off to a negative start? If all you want is a dog and a beer, and a football game, rejoice! Next year you'll have it.

Personally I think he and everyone else is just tired or more than likely just bored of arguing with you. The stadium will be a sad representation of what the league should have. I don't even read what you have to say because I have my own subjective opinion based off of what I see, I don't need anyone to try and create excuses as to why the stadium is better than what I (and clearly the majority of others) see.

I am sad to see Hamilton get this facility after 1) living there and 2) seeing what they could have gotten. I am also sad to see that the CFL will have to have this stadium smeared on TSN every week for the next 50-80 years.

[Migs]

New stadium in Hamilton will be an ok facility but no question it was a missed opportunity on so many levels. Very odd that the only stadium project lucky enough to get federal funding will be by far the worst. At least they are building new as opposed to putting a new pair of shoes on the cankles.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I wouldn't put too much faith in that video, when it shows newer homes surrounding the stadium and blanks out the lovely view of the dirty industry in the background. The stadium will look worse in reality than it does in the video - and it doesn't look that great in the video to being with.

The truth is it's a VERY underwhelming stadium in a horrible location aesthetically (poor neighbourhood with views of industry) and in terms of convenience for Hamiltonians and especially people in the GTA (take the GO train downtown, and then take a bus, cab or walk to the stadium. yaaay, fun!).

I would love if they were to just cancel the project.

LOL! Had to laugh when someone mentioned the NEW Hamilton stadium render looks a lot like the crappy OLD Winnipeg Blue Bomber stadium currently being demolished, guess Hamilton is going for that AWFUL looking mid-70's retrofitted stadium look. Hamilton must be the only city in North America where the NEW stadium will be worse looking than OLD stadium it is replacing, embarrassing on so many levels, the CFL should have just moved the Tiger Cats to QC or Halifax.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

LOL! Had to laugh when someone mentioned the NEW Hamilton stadium render looks a lot like the crappy OLD Winnipeg Blue Bomber stadium currently being demolished, guess Hamilton is going for that AWFUL looking mid-70's retrofitted stadium look. Hamilton must be the only city in North America where the NEW stadium will be worse looking than OLD stadium it is replacing, embarrassing on so many levels, the CFL should have just moved the Tiger Cats to QC or Halifax.

I wouldn't go as far as saying the new stadium is worse than the old one it's replacing. This will be a better stadium than Ivor Wynne - both in looks and function... even if it's smaller in capacity. It's just not up to snuff with what a modern stadium should be - even if it's built with less money.

I guess when I think about it, you wouldn't build a state-of-the-art arena for an AHL team, so why build a great stadium for an AHL-equivalent league like CFL? I mean, it's the CFL afterall. The CFL!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I guess when I think about it, you wouldn't build a state-of-the-art arena for an AHL team, so why build a great stadium for an AHL-equivalent league like CFL? I mean, it's the CFL afterall. The CFL!

Hey, don't knock that approach. My city built a state of the art arena for an AHL team, and a couple years later we snagged a NHL team

Besides, if Hamilton can't manage to build a proper facility for the supposedly "AHL-equivalent" CFL when every other city in the league can, then what does that say about Hamilton? Maybe the moral of the story is, like rrskylar suggested, that the CFL has simply outgrown Hamilton.