London's Malls

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Probably it is associated with pretentious types by a few people in London, Ontario, but that doesn't mean that is reality. It doesn't mean people are pretentious because they like better quality coffee. You sound very small town to me. One doesn't have to be cultured to like better coffee. They just have to have taste buds. I'm sure yours will develop once you hit puberty.

Once again I am baffled by your assumption that since one dislikes Starbucks, they don't have an appreciation for "the finer things". There are many other places one can visit if they want higher quality coffee or food. I'm not a big coffee drinker anyways, but arguments such as this just enforce my reasoning for wanting to stay away from Starbucks!

Anyways, ssiguy, where is City Centre Mall? You're not referring to Galleria/Citi Plaza are you?

[haljackey]

One thing's for sure, Westmount doesn't need two levels of underground parking anymore.

I'd love to see one of the levels converted to a gym, or part of it into a bowling alley or something. You could also take half from each level and make a killer laser tag course!

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

Once again I am baffled by your assumption that since one dislikes Starbucks, they don't have an appreciation for "the finer things". There are many other places one can visit if they want higher quality coffee or food. I'm not a big coffee drinker anyways, but arguments such as this just enforce my reasoning for wanting to stay away from Starbucks!

Okay, my last post on this. I actually don't think Starbucks is that great, but it's much better than Tim's. Tim's is such bad coffee - the company could never make it big worldwide because Europeans wouldn't dare drink it. I meet British people all the time that have been to Tim Hortons in Canada and they think it's terrible. Canadians only go there because it's a Canadian icon and well branded.

To tell the truth, I much, much prefer independent coffee shops to places like Starbucks. Mostly because I like the quality of the independent shops and also because I like to support independent businesses. We have one here in Bath called Colonna & Smalls http://www.colonnaandsmalls.co.uk , which is independent and the barista was voted the best in the UK, 7th best in the world. I know of no equivalent cafe like it in all of Canada. If I ever move back to Canada, I would love to open a cafe, which focuses on high quality expresso coffee.

Now, back to the malls...

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Probably it is associated with pretentious types by a few people in London, Ontario, but that doesn't mean that is reality. It doesn't mean people are pretentious because they like better quality coffee. You sound very small town to me. One doesn't have to be cultured to like better coffee. They just have to have taste buds. I'm sure yours will develop once you hit puberty.

These days I drink Tim Hortons and Starbucks fairly equally, with the odd coffee from a neighbourhood independent joint and the odd one from McDonald's. Here in Kingston (which is similar to London in a lot of ways), there are several distinct demographic profiles I observe.

Tim Hortons - customers tend to be older. The ones I go to most frequently are where local seniors meet in the morning. They also get a lot of university students and construction workers. McDonald's isn't much different demographically, although it doesn't seem to be a mass gathering place as much as Tim Hortons.

Starbucks - customers tend to be under 50, most frequently in their 20s. The ones I go to most frequently are usually filled with university students and business people.

I have always found the more pretentious people I've known to have a preference for Starbucks. That is not to say that Starbucks customers in general are pretentious; I'm saying that pretentious people in general like Starbucks.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Okay, my last post on this. I actually don't think Starbucks is that great, but it's much better than Tim's. Tim's is such bad coffee - the company could never make it big worldwide because Europeans wouldn't dare drink it. I meet British people all the time that have been to Tim Hortons in Canada and they think it's terrible. Canadians only go there because it's a Canadian icon and well branded.

To tell the truth, I much, much prefer independent coffee shops to places like Starbucks. Mostly because I like the quality of the independent shops and also because I like to support independent businesses. We have one here in Bath called Colonna & Smalls http://www.colonnaandsmalls.co.uk , which is independent and the barista was voted the best in the UK, 7th best in the world. I know of no equivalent cafe like it in all of Canada. If I ever move back to Canada, I would love to open a cafe, which focuses on high quality expresso coffee.
Now, back to the malls...

Great post! I very much agree with you now.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned why Tim Hortons is so successful. I mean the whole "Tim Hortons Canadiana" type marketing crap gets so annoying after a while. It's gotten to the point that some people my age actually think of it as one of the defining cornerstones of Canadian culture, and in general, what makes us different from the States. That's pretty sad when you think about it. What on earth did people do before Tim Hortons! A crappy donut place serving terrible coffee is not something we should be quite so proud of. I mean it's an alright place once and a while, but I simply do not understand the loyalty some people have to it. I see drive thru lineups nearly spilling onto the street every morning and all I can do is wonder what the heck these people are thinking! Same thing goes for people who are loyal to Starbucks, but the Tim Hortons thing is just much worse here. I guess you can chalk it up to successfull marketing.


Sorry for taking this thread so off topic, but maybe someone can confirm this for me. I seem to remember that the old music store chain "Music World" had a location the 2nd floor of Westmount Mall before the chain went under around 2007. However someone I was talking to remembers it being on the 1st floor. Anyone remember this? I was younger when it closed so I might be wrong.

I've been an avid music fan since I was pretty young, and I still like to purchase actual CDs so needless to say I was sad when the store closed. I was also kinda upset when the HMV left White Oaks recently. They never have a great music selection, but they always have lots of DVD's/Blu-Rays and pretty good deals. The Masonville location's got nothing on the 2 level one at West Edmonton Mall though!

[ssiguy]

Who dies and made you guys Juan Valdez? Cut the coffee crap and get back to the discussion.

[Wharn]

EDIT: Sorry, I just saw the post above after typing out the post below. Back to mall discussions... when exactly did HMV leave White Oaks? I remember going there only a little over a year ago to get a Christmas present for my mom, and the place seemed fairly busy even before the worst of the holiday shopping season. Can't say I'm surprised though, since it's more or less moving lockstep with the switch to fully digital music.

Anyone else a little annoyed by the online buying process? I don't like how you're being tied into computer files (which inherently go obsolete very quickly) with potential DRM issues, and I don't like the fact almost everything is being sold in crap quality. Apple is one of the worst for this, and the only way to get around it is to buy in ALAC format, which is capable of being played on about 7 devices. I would at least hope they'd offer a FLAC option. Either way, there's something about not receiving a physical copy in return that really irks me.

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Probably it is associated with pretentious types by a few people in London, Ontario, but that doesn't mean that is reality. It doesn't mean people are pretentious because they like better quality coffee.

The thing is, Starbucks isn't actually better. They've built up a brand image that manipulates people into thinking that it's the best coffee around, when in reality there are hundreds of independent shops (and even a few chains, like Second Cup or Van Houtte) that don't put out a product with a heavy, burnt aroma. But never mind that, the real issue is people who somehow think they are more cultured or sophisticated merely because they choose to consume a certain product. Those are the arrogant "Starbucks Types" I'm referring to, not just people who are looking for something that's a cut above the usual swill.

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

You sound very small town to me. One doesn't have to be cultured to like better coffee. They just have to have taste buds. I'm sure yours will develop once you hit puberty.

And here we go with the ad hominem attacks and baseless assumptions, first with me and then with Simpseatles.

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

We have one here in Bath called Colonna & Smalls http://www.colonnaandsmalls.co.uk , which is independent and the barista was voted the best in the UK, 7th best in the world. I know of no equivalent cafe like it in all of Canada.

If you're ever in downtown Toronto, there's a million independently owned Portuguese and Italian coffee shops that offer similar products. I'm sure at least one of them would be able to at least come close.

On that note, anyone who's ever been to Portugal should know that the coffee is outrageously cheap and absolutely excellent. Literally about 15 cafes per 100 people though, so not sure about profit margins in the industry. But the overseas operations that have sprung up in Toronto naturally would come from similar stock.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by Wharn

EDIT: Sorry, I just saw the post above after typing out the post below. Back to mall discussions... when exactly did HMV leave White Oaks? I remember going there only a little over a year ago to get a Christmas present for my mom, and the place seemed fairly busy even before the worst of the holiday shopping season. Can't say I'm surprised though, since it's more or less moving lockstep with the switch to fully digital music.
.

It definitely closed fairly recently. About 6 months ago I think. It was certainly always very busy, which is why it was so surprising to see it leave. Thankfully Sunrise is still around.

What I never understand is how the store Cinema 1 remains in business. It has always had much higher prices on DVD's and blu-rays than HMV and other such stores.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

Sorry for taking this thread so off topic, but maybe someone can confirm this for me. I seem to remember that the old music store chain "Music World" had a location the 2nd floor of Westmount Mall before the chain went under around 2007. However someone I was talking to remembers it being on the 1st floor. Anyone remember this? I was younger when it closed so I might be wrong.

I've been an avid music fan since I was pretty young, and I still like to purchase actual CDs so needless to say I was sad when the store closed. I was also kinda upset when the HMV left White Oaks recently. They never have a great music selection, but they always have lots of DVD's/Blu-Rays and pretty good deals. The Masonville location's got nothing on the 2 level one at West Edmonton Mall though!

Music World at Westmount Mall was on the first floor, near the Hallmark store and the British/Irish Store, and across from some haircut joint. When I moved to London in 2005, my wife and I first lived in one of the highrises across the street from Westmount. It was a place to go to kill time, especially after our firstborn (somewhere you could walk around with him in the baby bjorn). I almost knew that mall off by heart. It was actually pretty decent in summer 2005, but started to slide downhill almost immediately, first on the second floor near Zellers, then the first floor near Zellers, then the rot started to creep down along the second floor to Sears (beadstores, sweet kitchens and bath, smelly rug stores, seniors welcoming centre, etc.). Within a year, it had emptied out by 30% or more. We moved in 2006 to Northwest London (Hyde Parking Lot, aka liver & onions).

I predict that White Oaks has shitty days ahead.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I predict that White Oaks has shitty days ahead.

What makes you say this? I figure Masonville might face some tough times with all those power centres nearby but it's been pretty resilient so far.

White Oaks doesn't really have them around, and it's a good location too (5 mins off the 401). It's pretty busy whenever I go, but a lot of the clientele is teenage mall rats. (UWO students tend to make up a good chunk of Masonville's consumer base but that's understandable due to its location.)

[MolsonExport]

^a mall can support only so many cellphone bling joints. Seems to be half of what is being sold at White Oaks. Always my least favorite of the erstwhile big 3 (Westmount, Masonville, WO). Walmart will probably leave when it finally gets around to the supercentre planned for exeter/wonderland. There are a huge number of vacant stores already in white oaks. plus the immediate neighborhood is kind of downtrodden. I hate the urban landscape around White Oaks/Wellington.

How many cell phone accessory stores and kiosks does one mall need? Terrible basis for product positioning from my viewpoint.

http://www.whiteoaksmall.ca/usr/doc/whiteoaks_map.pdf

[haljackey]

I was talking with a friend about Westmount Mall yesterday, recalling its glory days. Ended up listing stores that moved out, changed or closed.

All the anchor tenants have changed at some point:
-Eaton's - Sears
-Zellers - Target
-A&P - Metro - Superking Supermarket

Stores that moved nearby:
-BMO
-RBC
-LCBO
-Shoppers Drug Mart
-The Source (Radioshack)
-Pizza Pizza
-KFC
-Taco Bell
-A&W
-Westmount Library
-Cineplex

Stores that moved in the mall due to restructuring:
-Bulk Barrel
-Tim Horton's
-Bell
-Dollar store (later closed)
-Post office (moved like 3-4 times lol)

Stores I remember that have closed:
-Foot Locker
-Electronic Boutique (EB Games)
-Fairweather
-Tip Top Tailors
-HMV
-Consumers
-Compucentre
-Cool Toys
-Sport Mart
-Louiscraft
-Kernels Popcorn
-Music World
-Rogers Store
-The Telephone Booth
-Indigo Books
-Bootlegger
-Second Cup
-Mmmmuffins
-Dollar store
-Games/puzzle store
-Bentley
-Hallmark
-Japan Camera
-Blacks Camera
-Lenscrafters
-Wine shop
-Hardware store
-Another eyeglasses place
-The General Store
-People's: The Diamond Store
-Some other card store
-Vitamin store
-Drycleaners
-Poster/painting store
-Some shoe store that starts with A
-A bunch of hair places
-A bunch of clothing stores
-A bunch of clock stores
-A bunch of shoe stores
-A bunch of carpet/bedding stores
-Tailoring store
-Marlee Normam (beauty store)
-Key/tinkering store
-Accessory store
-Body decal shop
-English food store
-Rainforest themed store
-Another music store
-Movie store
-Outdoor store
-Another Jewellery store
-Buy-way (absorbed by Zellers expansion)
-Lighting Store (absorbed by Zellers expansion)
-Mario and Jags restaurant (absorbed by Zellers expansion)
-Car wash (was in the underground parking)
-Arcade (replaced with Cineplex)

Food court:
-Dairy Queen, KFC (later Chester's Chicken), Taco Bell, New York Fries, Miss Vickies, Tim Hortons, Mr. Sub, A&W, some Chinese place

Stuff still in the mall:
-Lora Secord
-Payless Shoes
-Mugford's Shoes
-Zaxby's Bagles
-A nail salon
-Some jewellery store
-Some poster store
-Eyeglasses place
-Some kids store (Boonie tongs or something like that)
-A few clothing stores
-A few hair places
-Convenience store
-Some juice store
-Urban planet (part of the now segmented section with Superking Supermarket. The whole place smells like fish and Chinese food now and I think its closing soon)

Stores around the mall:
-TD (was always outside the mall but moved to a new stand-alone building)
-Cinemas (was in the same building as TD. I think it closed when the Cineplex opened in the mall)
-Ciniplex (formerly in the mall)
-Shell (used to be in the mall parking lot, along with a Mr. Lube and A&P's parcel pickup)
-Shoeless Joe's
-Another store under construction (probably a restaurant or clothing store)
-The remaining frontage along Wonderland is for sale


...Wow this list is a lot longer than I thought. I still probably forgot a lot of stuff lol. Growing up around Westmount mall its sad to remember about the 'glory days' before everything was a smart centre.

[ssiguy]

I'm aging myself here but you didn't go back far enough.

In the 1970s the big grocery store was Dominion and it had something that few other malls did..............Mark's and Spencers.

Back to one of my earlier questions............is the City Centre Mall still around?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Stores that moved nearby:
-BMO
-RBC
-LCBO
-Shoppers Drug Mart
-The Source (Radioshack)
-Pizza Pizza
-KFC
-Taco Bell
-A&W
-Westmount Library
-Cineplex

I don't ever remember the Westmount library being inside the mall. I remember it being on the east side of Wonderland Road, in a building now housing a church. Or did the library temporarily move into the mall while the current library was being built?

I remember it was Pro Hardware that was the mall's hardware store. It was in the space later occupied by Bulk Barrel, now demolished.

[haljackey]

Ah that was the name of the hardware store! And yes it was in the former location of the Bulk Barrel.

Yes the Westmount Library was there for 2-3 years I think. The 'church' was charging too much for rent or something so they temporarily located to the mall while a new location was built.
-I would have much preferred a permanent branch in the mall, similar to the main library downtown. The new location sucks.

Ssiguy: I was referring to stores post-expansion. The original part of the mall did have a Dominion, but I was too young to remember that

[ssiguy]

^ Dems fightin words!

[drjohnnyfever]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Back to one of my earlier questions............is the City Centre Mall still around?

I believe so. I haven't been there for a couple years, but from what I recall it's mostly just a glorified food court now with a couple stores here and there...

... just like the Talbot Mall, which is one of my favourite "hidden" malls. However, I noticed when I walked past it this weekend (on my way to RibFest) that the signage was gone from the entrances. Anybody know if something has happened to the mall?

[Spicol]

Originally Posted by drjohnnyfever

... just like the Talbot Mall, which is one of my favourite "hidden" malls. However, I noticed when I walked past it this weekend (on my way to RibFest) that the signage was gone from the entrances. Anybody know if something has happened to the mall?

Still the same. It's more of a food court, really. There's a gym, couple of medical related units. Not much retail beyond that. This list seems up to date:

http://www.oldoakproperties.com/retail/talbotcentremall/

[MolsonExport]

I ventured inside the Northland Mall today. Deader than a doornail inside, aside from the entrance near No Frills...barber shop busy, then some Polish Deli...it all goes downhill from there. I even took photos, which one day I will post for enhancing your daily dose of dreariness.

[ericlewis91]

Sears Masonville last day is Feb 9

Still no update on what will take it's place...