Winnipeg Construction - Page 406

Riverman · #**8101** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 12:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

All of you are talking short-run. For the system to be sustainable it would need to create enough tax revenue to sustain the project indefinetly.

The original cost may get assistance from various levels of government, but the ongoing maintenance (the much larger burden) will be with the City. If the project doesn't increase the City's ability to make money sufficient to maintenance the project then it will be a net loss for the City. I don't know numbers for these things, but I'm sure they would be expensive, both as a original project, and ongoing maintenance.

This is the reason I hate projects like Peguis Trails extension, Plessis Underpass and Panet Road Twinning. The projects cost a lot and in no significant way increase the City's ability to increase tax base. They do in minor ways, but not even almost sufficient to maintain the projects on any level.

This is why we have infrastructure deficits. Personally, I would rather not beg other levels of government for money, I would make sure the projects actually create a net gain in tax revenues.

Show me a road that makes money.

Roads are needed for commerce and transportation. As more commerce and transportation are needed, more and/or wider roads are needed. Roads are not supposed to make money but without them what kind of city would we have?

Are you suggesting that no money should be spent on roads? Or maybe when roads need replacing we should just return them back to dirt paths?

How Winnipeg is that?

Bdog · #**8102** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 1:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Show me a road that makes money.

The 407

Riverman · #**8103** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 2:27 AM**

Haha yeah sort of I guess. Different kettle of fish though.

vid · #**8104** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 2:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Show me a road that makes money.

Roads are needed for commerce and transportation. As more commerce and transportation are needed, more and/or wider roads are needed. Roads are not supposed to make money but without them what kind of city would we have?

Are you suggesting that no money should be spent on roads? Or maybe when roads need replacing we should just return them back to dirt paths?

How Winnipeg is that?

Wow, they're almost like public transit systems in a way.

I have jokingly advocated for the privatization of suburban crescents and culs-de-sac in the past, but few people agree even though they're basically just mutual driveways that the city is forced to plow because it owns them. They complain that "no one takes the number 40 bus!" but no one ever complains that "no one drives down Bumblefuck Crescent!".

Transit systems and roads play a role in driving the economy by facilitating the movement of workers and goods, the difference is public transit systems typically only go where they really needed and when it can be justified; roads will just go wherever they want to go, and to hell with those who pay for them. We only have buses going to far-flung or low density areas because "everyone should have access to it", but in a way, when your transit resources are limited, should they really be spend on running a bus in a loop every 30 minutes through a neighbourhood where everyone has a car? Meanwhile, buses downtown are packed like sardines... My city has an urban neighbourhood with very poor transit penetration but no one there seems to mind. The route basically just exists to serve two schools and an apartment block.

trueviking · #**8105** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 3:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

A hotel that starts with W. Westin?

steveosnyder · #**8106** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 3:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Show me a road that makes money.

Sorry for not being literal enough... A road or street should increase the city's ability to make money.

And on the point of the 407, I have asked before, but why doesn't the city create tolls for getting inside the perimeter during peak hour? Speaking about the north because thats what i know best, put a toll at Main, Henderson, Lag, McPhillips and Brookside.

armorand93 · #**8107** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 4:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatlander

Waterpark?

World Trade Centre Winnipeg...?

Mininari · #**8108** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 4:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

LOVE IT!

And good to hear that particular brand *may* be returning to Winnipeg!

DavefromSt.Vital · #**8109** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 4:35 AM**

Viking, literally - LOL

wags_in_the_peg · #**8110** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 1:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mininari

LOVE IT!

And good to hear that particular brand *may* be returning to Winnipeg!

Wow, am I confused!

Biff · #**8111** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 1:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavefromSt.Vital

Viking, literally - LOL

It's funny, because when i saw that my initial reaction was - what the fuck does bingo have to do with the hotel.........then it hit me.

i'm smrt.

drew · #**8112** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 2:02 PM**

Quote:

Wow, am I confused!

^I know.

Viking is clearly trying to say something with that picture, it certainly seems like it is "bingo", but well, that lady quite clearly only has one or two spots in any of the rows I can see on her sheets. No bingo there.

Riverman · #**8113** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 2:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

Sorry for not being literal enough... A road or street should increase the city's ability to make money.

You are not really thinking this through. Consider the reconstruction of Panet. Presently it is a packed street, one lane each way (meaning any turns on or off the street stop traffic), that is about 90% deteriorated. People need to use this road to get to their homes/workplaces. Why do you think that the people from this area do not deserve a proper road?

jmt18325 · #**8114** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 2:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

OMG, I stared at that for a second, thinking you were making a commentary about Westin....then I realized what you were actually doing, and burst out laughing.

chrisallard5454 · #**8115** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 2:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325

OMG, I stared at that for a second, thinking you were making a commentary about Westin....then I realized what you were actually doing, and burst out laughing.

I think I got it but I am not sure. I don't want to spoil it for anyone else.

esquire · #**8116** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 2:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

I think I got it but I am not sure. I don't want to spoil it for anyone else.

Clearly the province is going to make an announcement in today's budget that it's putting up a beautiful, state of the art, 500-seat bingo hall right in the middle of the city. It will use the highest grade imported stucco ever seen in Manitoba.

What could be better? Easily accessible by transit to boot!

CoryB · #**8117** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 2:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Clearly the province is going to make an announcement in today's budget that it's putting up a beautiful, state of the art, 500-seat bingo hall right in the middle of the city. It will use the highest grade imported stucco ever seen in Manitoba.

What could be better? Easily accessible by transit to boot!

Might that be a concept rendering of the True North gmaing center that is opening in City Place?

steveosnyder · #**8118** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 2:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

You are not really thinking this through. Consider the reconstruction of Panet. Presently it is a packed street, one lane each way (meaning any turns on or off the street stop traffic), that is about 90% deteriorated. People need to use this road to get to their homes/workplaces. Why do you think that the people from this area do not deserve a proper road?

I'm not saying that they don't deserve a proper road... Everyone deserves a proper road. But building the street wider will fix absolutely nothing.

Fixing the street is an operational budget item, twinning the street is a capital project. Fix the street. But why twin it?

Doing projects like this is a quick way fo the city to become more in debt.

---

Perhaps I should elaborate more.

This is a neighbourhood street and shouldn't be twinned. Instead they should find more efficient ways to move people from this street to Lagimodiere. Houses and stores front this street, crescents come off it, a old-folks home and a few churches egresses from it.

Twinning this street will make this neighbourhood less attractive and turn it into another commuter neighbourhood. Something that might work is to keep this street 2 lanes, move the street over to the East closer to the sidewalk and sell the land on the west side that is currently reserved for street widening for street-level business. Some of the project costs would be offset from the property sale, and it would increase the tax base in the area.

In looking at street view, it seems there is bad drainage (ditches on both sides of molson), so this project might be expensive, but at least it has a way of recouping some of the costs.

Riverman · #**8119** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 3:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

Fix the street. But why twin it?

I explained that. I guess you never are in that area.

esquire · #**8120** Posted **Apr 16, 2013, 3:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoryB

Might that be a concept rendering of the True North gmaing center that is opening in City Place?

True enough, I guess my lame joke is closer to reality than I thought!

But seriously... a Westin Hotel at Portage and Main would be an excellent development for that site for at least a few reasons I can think of:

-It would fill in perhaps the most visible, gaping eyesore in town when it comes to surface parking lots.

-It would be the first new, full-service business hotel downtown in decades. Considering how dated many of Winnipeg's downtown hotels are, this is something that business travellers would appreciate and help the city's image a bit in that at least one of the business hotels won't be badly behind the times.

-It will add some more people to the P&M area. I know that some might think question what that's worth given that the plaza at Lombard Place is always dead despite having two massive office towers and a huge hotel on it, but remember that many of the people staying at the Westin will be business travellers on expense accounts and a good many of them will be eating and drinking at nearby establishments. A big new hotel nearby will help keep those storefront restaurants and lounges going.

-It'll be the first real change to the P&M cluster since the TD Centre opened nearly 25 years ago which should at least create some visual interest.

In any event, I hope the hotel proceeds. I think it would be a nice boost for the symbolic centre of the city.