London's Malls

[MolsonExport]

It exists, in all its glory. Apparently they still have a Zellers, months after all Zellers ceased operations. And they have an OMAC! Wow!

http://www.elginmall.com/SiteResources/ViewContent.asp?DocID=222&v1ID=&RevID=678&lang=1

[MolsonExport]

Oxbox:
• Video Link

[ssiguy]

Ah, the Oxbox.

Seems like Elgin Mall is doing OK.

Looked into Strathroy's first and only mall, the Kenwicj, which at it's height had an A&P, a fairly large drugstore and about 10 other stores including Stedman's. A&P is gone but still has some sort of grocery store but not much else. The Zehr's [laza seems to still be going quite well.

I did a google-streetview tour of Caradoc Street in Strathroy and boy it's not as busy as it once was. When I was a kid the 402 ran from Sarnia to Strathroy and the 401 to Delaware but the gap inbetween, which seemed to take forever to build, wasn't done. Therefore all the traffic heading to the 401 went thru Strathroy and it was a very busy streets and had a lot of transport traffic.

[MolsonExport]

Wow, just look at this place:

[ssiguy]

Is that the Kenwick Mall?

[MolsonExport]

The one and only!

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

It exists, in all its glory. Apparently they still have a Zellers, months after all Zellers ceased operations. And they have an OMAC! Wow!

http://www.elginmall.com/SiteResources/ViewContent.asp?DocID=222&v1ID=&RevID=678&lang=1

It's physically possible that the Elgin Mall Zellers is still in operation. Much to my surprise last week, I found out that there's still an operating Zellers in Brockville, which will be closing in April. In Brockville's case, the store is not converting to Target or Walmart. I'm told Zellers in Belleville, and at least one location in Ottawa are still operating as well.

In any event, the loss of Zellers at Elgin Mall and the lack of Target replacing it will probably be hard on the mall. At least they still have the movie theatre and grocery store.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Last night I happened to be dragged (wife) to Whiteoaks Mall. This place is showing signs of being in trouble. At least 20 vacant fronts. At least 10 cellphone joints, and it seemed as though every second store also sold cellphones/packages as part of the merchandise mix. Craptastic stores like those repleting the Westmount Mall's second floor before it was converted to offices. Shit on a stick, with corn.

Part of the reason for the vacant store fronts is that mall space is expensive to lease, and if you're operating a marginal business to begin with, profit margins aren't high enough to sustain it, pay employees, and pay the rent.

In fact, this is also the reason why the shops you do see tend to sell overpriced junk because the profit margins are so high and thus allow a store to stay in business. If you look carefully, a lot of the stores are oriented to young people, who haven't yet learned to be very selective about what they buy.

I rarely shop in malls, and only go visit them if I need to buy something that I can't find anywhere else. The men's clothing stores in all of London's malls also don't cater for guys like me, who need to buy big and tall men's sizes. If you look like a model or are shaped like one, you can find clothing that fits at a mall. If not, you have to go elsewhere.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Stevo26

Part of the reason for the vacant store fronts is that mall space is expensive to lease, and if you're operating a marginal business to begin with, profit margins aren't high enough to sustain it, pay employees, and pay the rent.

That was one of the problems Westmount Shopping Centre ran into. After it was sold by the Ontario Teachers' Pension Fund (which also owned the Toronto Maple Laffs), the new owners jacked up the rent so high that some longtime tenants left, one even moving to Elgin Mall in St. Thomas.

One thing I've noticed in my travels outside North America is that suburban malls in some countries charge for parking, usually a small amount, nothing like downtown parking - let's say 25 cents an hour. If that allowed rent to be kept in line for tenants, would new tenants move in?

[GreatTallNorth2]

London just happens to have a lot of retail, specifically retail big box sprawl. Since London is probably the least planned mid sized city in Canada, developers can do what they want and basically shift retail from one spot to another. It really doesn't serve the public well, unless you like driving every where for no good reason. Really, malls work in Canada because of the climate. I would rather drive to one mall and go to the stores I need rather than drive from box to box. Unfortunately retailers choose the cheapest option which has left London with lots of sprawl and dying malls. Remove the Hyde park box crap and Masonville would be a bigger better mall. Remove the southdale wonderland box crap and westmount would be viable. Same for a lot of the box crap around white oaks. I hate to think what London will look like when the boundaries get pushed further and the current box stores relocate. What an eyesore! No one thinks long term in this city, just quick approvals for more crap. (Rant over)

[MolsonExport]

^my thoughts exactly.

[haljackey]

So I park at Westmount mall daily to take the bus to UWO, and the place was crazy today with the opening of Target. I usually take advantage of their underground parking but today I had to go to the bowels of P2 to find a spot.

That and the new Asian grocery store should be a boost for the mall... Too bad the mall is now two sections cuz you know people want to go outside for a bit during their indoor shopping experience.

[ssiguy]

While I agree London has made mistakes and some areas of London's "planning" dept seem near non-existent {ie roads}, it has made a lot of wise decisions in the last 20 years particularily regarding downtown.

Ditching the Gardens and opening up John Labatt was a good one as was building a convention centre with a niche market......medical conventions. The Market is a success and they made a very good decision but specifically making sure that chain stores couldn't move in.

London has done an excellent job of rehabilitating it's downtown mall at he loss of Eatons with UWO, Fanshaw, and a new central library. That may not seem monumental but actually it was as it was the first city in Canada to do exactly that and it is now being replicated throughout the country. It has done a very good job of improving the store fronts of downtown and getting more unique stores and restaurants downtown and not trying to lure chain stores which you can find in any mall which it cannot compete with in terms of free parking and climate control.

The city has also done an exceptional job on focusing on high density downtown population growth. They know that not only are those new residents wanting more goods and services but also a crowd attracts a crowd.

The LTC has completely turned around it lost ridership in the last decade with the rebound of downtown, more cross city routes, and having the buses go up to the front of suburban malls and not just dropping them off on the street.

I think the worse period of London planning took place between 75 to 95 but the city has learnt a lot fronm those mistakes.

[MolsonExport]

Downtown London has not been a disaster, it is true. Densification, the market, the Buttwisser gardens, even the Citibank Plaza...all good.
Not much can be said for outside, where the sprawl is relentless especially given the sluggish population growth. Spreading the same amount of butter over twice as much toast....leaves for a dry, tasteless experience. And the new growth is mostly big-box-barf and rembrandt cookie-cutters, with a few mcmansions thrown in for good measure. Like vampires, the big box periphery is soul-sucking and worse, vitally drains the corridors of the three big malls (not to mention the piddling others, like Oxbury, Northland, Argyle, etc.)

By the way, the Metro at Sherwood Forest closed last week.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

By the way, the Metro at Sherwood Forest closed last week.

So that wasn't just a rumour. I sure hope Food Basics or even FreshCo replaces it. Still, that's a huge loss for that part of the city. Lots of Western students around there as well.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The thing with the London Mews is that it was actually quite busy.

The theatres were a big draw especially after the demise of the Century & Capitol theatres. It had the unique advantage of being the go-between Simpson's and Eaton's/Wellington Square. No one walked down King between the two but rather along Dundas to the Mews and then over to WS. It wasn't really the nicest place but it was well positioned which kept pedestrian traffic quite high.

When Simpson/The Bay went under and Eaton's too, the draw of the Mews was nil and it's demise was inevitable. I'm kinda surprised that many of you remember it.

Just as a side note, I didn't even know they changed the name of Westown Plaza Mall. Also you mentioned A&P there but I'm not sure if you are right. I thought it's main grocery store was Miracle Mart?

I have memories of the Mews from the late 70s when I would come to London the odd weekend to visit relatives. What I remember (admittedly vaguely) is some of the nice stores it had. When I moved to London for good in late 1993, all that was really left of the Mews was one or two stores and the Cineplex Odeon theatre that was located on the top floor.

I always thought it was a strange little mall, tucked in between storefronts on Dundas Street the way it was.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by Stevo26

I have memories of the Mews from the late 70s when I would come to London the odd weekend to visit relatives. What I remember (admittedly vaguely) is some of the nice stores it had. When I moved to London for good in late 1993, all that was really left of the Mews was one or two stores and the Cineplex Odeon theatre that was located on the top floor.

I always thought it was a strange little mall, tucked in between storefronts on Dundas Street the way it was.

All I can remember of the Mews/Smugglers Cove was the movie theatres. Too bad Mews was torn down, to think now it could potentially be used by UWO or Fanshawe as a downtown campus. While it's currently a level parking lot, I've heard rumors the lower levels of Mews are still intact underneath the lot. Interesting to see whatever development comes there.

Surprised really the glut of downtown malls that were proposed in the 1980/90s. Galleria was suppose to be an elite mall, then next door the Mews, and the proposed super-sized Cambridge development on Talbot Block, now Bud Gardens. What tenants were they expecting to fill all the mall spaces with? Hell can barely fill the remnants of galleria, let alone Mews and the proposed Cambridge development.

Here's some images of the Mews...

[Simpseatles]

^Great pics, thanks for sharing them! The Mews was before my time so I had no idea what it looked like until now.

I do find it surprising that for a period London actually had two downtown malls right next to each other. I mean were either of them ever really successful?

I guess the Mews belongs to this group of former London Malls:

-Oakridge Mall (seemed like a nice mall, now it's a Superstore)
-Pond Mills Square (the stand-alone grocery store still exists along with a Dollarama and a Zellers, which is either closing very soon or has already closed with no news of a new tenant)
-Argyle Mall (enclosed mall portion recently demolished, now a Smart Centre)
-Centretown Mall (now a Seniors apartment building with street level retail)

...any I missed? Which mall will be next? Oxbury? Westmount?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

-Oakridge Mall (seemed like a nice mall, now it's a Superstore)
-Pond Mills Square (the stand-alone grocery store still exists along with a Dollarama and a Zellers, which is either closing very soon or has already closed with no news of a new tenant)
-Argyle Mall (enclosed mall portion recently demolished, now a Smart Centre)
-Centretown Mall (now a Seniors apartment building with street level retail)

...any I missed? Which mall will be next? Oxbury? Westmount?

I'm going to give Westmount the benefit of the doubt for at least the next year or so, now that they have Target.

However, I see no future for Oxbury. There's a lot of land there close to Fanshawe College that I can see developers wanting for residential development. Eventually, I predict a much smaller commercial plaza with Food Basics still remaining, and some new residential high-density development added.

[haljackey]

You missed Wonderland Mall... It has since been converted to The Athletic Club, Adventures on Wonderland and the now closed Angelo's Bakery.


I used to go to the Mews for cheap movies when I was a kid. I remember before it closed there was talk of converting it to a casino. I do think it had a lower parking level which is still somewhat intact to keep a foundation for redevelopment.