Winnipeg Construction

[viperred88]

Originally Posted by esquire

I am generally up on anything that involves the development of a surface parking lot, but I have to scratch my head over the constant desire to incorporate an outdoor plaza into this city's developments as though this were a place that didn't have winters to contend with. There are probably no less than a dozen plazas large and small throughout downtown Winnipeg, and the thing they all have in common is that they're virtually empty and devoid of people most of the time.

In my experience, plazas are only successful when you have a large number of people convening on them. If Manhattan had a Herald Square or Union Square on every other block, they would lose their charm. Less is more when it comes to this kind of thing.

As nice as the SoPo project is, I think it would be better if the developer took headhorse's advice. Make it less inward-focused and more about the street. It would be nice if people walking down Graham, Hargrave and Carlton at night passed by storefront businesses and open doors instead of having that all tucked away in a courtyard that sits out of sight.

I agree

[trueviking]

cool presentation....the paper seems to suggest that they have tennants....lotteries and MLC?

those buildings are tiny if you look closely.....only 160 000 sf of office space is actually quite small.....look at the floor plans on the brochure....the hotel has 6 units per floor and the west office block is only 10000 sf floors....15k is usually a minimum.

odd that they would be pursuing a hotel when the convention centre is doing one 40 feet away.

interesting proposal....i agree about the plaza thing....a good idea in new york.....it has all the potential to be air canada courtyard number two if you ask me.

[Mininari]

I'm a little disappointed that the first MPI lot project doesn't have a residential component to it, but there are other condos U/C in the area, and at the risk of flooding the area with condo supply, they probably want to see how SALES actually do before proceeding with more residential. Furthermore, the fortress development plans are yet to come out, and there is also potential for a mixed retail-residential to be phase 2 of the MPI lots... or further down the road as part of redevelopment of other surface lots. There is so much potential in the area for future developments if the first ones are successful.

As for the plaza, I imagine the idea is to create and outdoor gathering venue for future playoff runs -- gathering and watching a playoff run (April 15th forward), really isn't out of the question. Imagine if the jets actually win a round. Either way, I think the idea is to create a gathering place for hockey fans that doesn't result in Portage and Main being shut down everytime they win a Playoff game.

Now for the big question.... what are the timelines for this shaping up to be???

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Mininari

Now for the big question.... what are the timelines for this shaping up to be???

I could see spring 2015 construction if everything goes ahead. The 1 year deadline for these concepts is in the fall (I believe), along with the Donald lots. That takes us to fall 2013. Then detailed design, geotechnical investigation, etc. Couldn't see anything happening summer of 2014.

[trueviking]

what happens in the 99.999999999999999999999999999% of the time when the Jets are not playing a playoff game?

they are proposing a skating rink...didnt they just get rid of one a few blocks away at the library's empty plaza?

[CoryB]

From the brochure on the site you can catch a glimpse of the floor plan for the two buildings on the Calrton St side. Based on that information it appears the building on the Hargrave side is the parkade. There is also a skywalk in the brochure crossing Hargrave and connecting into CityPlace, likely just south of the Shark Club/gaming center.

It is also interesting that a four star hotel is called out in the plans. It seems something is already lined up for the site. Not sure what hotel occupany rates are but the recent trend downtown has seen the York and Place Louis Reil drop out of the hotel market and we are gaining Alt, the Carlton Inn redevelopment now SoPo and likely a CMHR site one. Do all these new properties mean one might drop off, perhaps the old bus deopt tower will convert to an U of W student residency?

My one other comment is that I wonder how the video display board will go over when it comes time for zoning. One side wraps around to Carlton St. which would basically be shining directly into the RWB student residency. I also wonder what impact the residency location may have on the proposed programming for the plaza.

Edit:

Originally Posted by trueviking

they are proposing a skating rink...didnt they just get rid of one a few blocks away at the library's empty plaza?

Been in the library plaza before the reno and afterwards and there is a good amount of traffic it in now on around lunch time in the warm weather months. It was definitely a positive change. Activity is still on the low side outside of that fairly narrow window but change is often slow.

[steveosnyder]

Three buildings with an inward facing plaza -- where have I seen that before? Oh ya, Fort Garry Place... While FGP mall is covered, I can see the same happening here if the designer ignores the street, as viperred88, headhorse and TV have said.

Go in that place after the City of Winnipeg offices close at 4:30 and it's a ghost town. If this building has tenants in MLC, MLCC, or any other crown we are looking at another 4:30 ghost town, unless the Jets make the playoffs. Though this is just my uneducated, ignorant, self-medicated opinion.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Mininari

As for the plaza, I imagine the idea is to create and outdoor gathering venue for future playoff runs -- gathering and watching a playoff run (April 15th forward), really isn't out of the question. Imagine if the jets actually win a round. Either way, I think the idea is to create a gathering place for hockey fans that doesn't result in Portage and Main being shut down everytime they win a Playoff game.

On the brochure for SoPo (very slick presentation, by the way) it points out that TNSE will be programming events for the square, so I think there is something to what you are saying. But considering that buildings change hands so often these days, what are the odds that some faceless investment fund landlord that buys the complex from MPI and Longboat a few years down the road is going to continue with an ambitious (and costly) programming schedule? That's when the courtyard becomes Air Canada Park number two.

While I'm making wishes, I'd also hope that the Graham Avenue streetfront does something to contribute to the continuity of the commercial strip along that street. Manitoba Hydro's HQ showed total disregard for one of the few reasonably healthy retail strips in downtown Winnipeg by putting (what else) a vacant windswept outdoor plaza along Graham. A well-designed SoPo could go a long way toward building more of a critical mass there.

Anyway, I don't mean to be too nitpicky about the project. Considering that this site has been mostly vacant for the better part of the last century, it would be very encouraging to see this development springing up.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by esquire

On the brochure for SoPo (very slick presentation, by the way) it points out that TNSE will be programming events for the square, so I think there is something to what you are saying. But considering that buildings change hands so often these days, what are the odds that some faceless investment fund landlord that buys the complex from MPI and Longboat a few years down the road is going to continue with an ambitious (and costly) programming schedule? That's when the courtyard becomes Air Canada Park number two.

While I'm making wishes, I'd also hope that the Graham Avenue streetfront does something to contribute to the continuity of the commercial strip along that street. Manitoba Hydro's HQ showed total disregard for one of the few reasonably healthy retail strips in downtown Winnipeg by putting (what else) a vacant windswept outdoor plaza along Graham. A well-designed SoPo could go a long way toward building more of a critical mass there.

Anyway, I don't mean to be too nitpicky about the project. Considering that this site has been mostly vacant for the better part of the last century, it would be very encouraging to see this development springing up.

Which is where the ultimate success of this SHED district is dependent on OTHER developers coming to the table with some ideas of their own. More residential... more reisdential... but we need the first set of residential development completed and occupied and successful before others come up. But if this thing takes off, then watch out because I think new house prices are high enough now in the city to make condo living more attractive, just price-wise. Having amenities, entertainment, etc. nearby is a bonus.

Its a real shame that PP is slowly being cannibalized into office space because there very well could be actual demand for retail space in there one day. However, given how slow developments of the nature of the MPI lot take to get from concept to reality PP would have to suffer through several more years of its status quo... tough timing. Maybe PP can go through a Renaissance in 10 years or so as a 'reborn downtown mall.' And they can bring back the cart rides and jugglers (and the muscle-woman???), and happy people shopping as per the 1989 commercial.

Skating rink eh? Maybe someone is jealous of the Quebec City and Edmonton Arena site plans? (the ole kids playing hockey in front of their heroes' home?).

[calder]

Originally Posted by Mininari

there are other condos U/C in the area, and at the risk of flooding the area with condo supply, they probably want to see how SALES actually do before proceeding with more residential

As someone really interested in a condo in the South Portage area, I say flood the market! My wife and I have rented in the neighbourhood far too long and are interested in buying a place, but don't want to leave the area. If I can't look out my window at the Golden Boy and keep tabs on the traffic on Broadway I'm not interested (well, I'd hardly argue about a view of the river or downtown). Seriously in the same way my Dad watches his lawn and garden like a hawk I'm a connoisseur of traffic patterns on Broadway. The last Zombie Walk was like my Woodstock, I spent an hour enthralled on my balcony watching cars try to find back alley routes around Bway.

Oh you guys are joking with that "SoPo" stuff right? It's an inside joke of a term you use ironically hoping the noobs who post will pick up on it and sound foolish? Fine I'll bite, it's a handy abbreviation.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by calder

As someone really interested in a condo in the South Portage area, I say flood the market! My wife and I have rented in the neighbourhood far too long and are interested in buying a place, but don't want to leave the area. If I can't look out my window at the Golden Boy and keep tabs on the traffic on Broadway I'm not interested (well, I'd hardly argue about a view of the river or downtown). Seriously in the same way my Dad watches his lawn and garden like a hawk I'm a connoisseur of traffic patterns on Broadway. The last Zombie Walk was like my Woodstock, I spent an hour enthralled on my balcony watching cars try to find back alley routes around Bway.

Oh you guys are joking with that "SoPo" stuff right? It's an inside joke of a term you use ironically hoping the noobs who post will pick up on it and sound foolish? Fine I'll bite, it's a handy abbreviation.

Well, maybe one day "Sopo" will refer to a trendy, upscale entertainment / neighbourhour in downtown Winnipeg. Isn't that we all want to see?

[cheswick]

H2o on waterfront is on schedule and will begin renting in Jul 2013.

When I went to their sales office a while back they were talking of only the second building going to rental. going by their website it looks as if the entire first building is now rental. Range is $1100 to $1500 a month.

http://www.h2owaterfront.com/

[esquire]

Originally Posted by calder

Oh you guys are joking with that "SoPo" stuff right? It's an inside joke of a term you use ironically hoping the noobs who post will pick up on it and sound foolish? Fine I'll bite, it's a handy abbreviation.

It's a marketing term freshly invented by Longboat. As cheesy as it sounds, I like the idea of making it easier for the public to better distinguish between different downtown neighbourhoods.

[calder]

Originally Posted by Mininari

Well, maybe one day "Sopo" will refer to a trendy, upscale entertainment / neighbourhour in downtown Winnipeg. Isn't that we all want to see?

That would be nice. I may be overly optimistic, but I can see it happening fairly soon.

Originally Posted by esquire

It's a marketing term freshly invented by Longboat. As cheesy as it sounds, I like the idea of making it easier for the public to better distinguish between different downtown neighbourhoods.

Hah I see, I had thought it was a joking term you guys made up here. Either way, it *is* kind of handy for exactly the reason you state. I normally say "Broadway/Assiniboine" to refer to my part of downtown, which is a bit limiting and something of a mouthful. I'm willing to give "SoPo" a shot, but I won't be the first person to say it out loud around other people maybe.

EDIT: to be more clear, I'm referring to the abbreviation itself which strikes me as a bit silly, not the established neighbourhood name. But I'm usually pretty dubious about portmanteaus, even the ones I use all the time. There's just something a bit lazy about them now, a bit 'something the marketing intern came up with and no one could think of anything better'.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by calder

Hah I see, I had thought it was a joking term you guys made up here. Either way, it *is* kind of handy for exactly the reason you state. I normally say "Broadway/Assiniboine" to refer to my part of downtown, which is a bit limiting and something of a mouthful. I'm willing to give "SoPo" a shot, but I won't be the first person to say it out loud around other people maybe.

Wouldn't between broadway and Assiniboine be the SoBro neighbourhood? SoPo is north of Broadway.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by calder

I normally say "Broadway/Assiniboine" to refer to my part of downtown, which is a bit limiting and something of a mouthful. I'm willing to give "SoPo" a shot, but I won't be the first person to say it out loud around other people maybe.

South Portage and Broadway-Assiniboine are different neighbourhoods. Broadway-Assiniboine is south of Broadway, South Portage is north of Broadway.

South Portage: http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?ftid=0x...mXwQHkjYG4Bw&sig2=ueIFIzm4Z03Dsj-tH-20ZA

Broadway-Assiniboine: https://maps.google.ca/maps/place?ftid=0...PpwQH45oH4Dw&sig2=RAtz8jhoil1R0359gnTb4Q

[calder]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Wouldn't between broadway and Assiniboine be the SoBro neighbourhood? SoPo is north of Broadway.

SoPo? Oh you mean NoBro. Then yes.


Ok I'll stop.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by calder

SoPo? Oh you mean NoBro.

As long as you don't live in DoWiSeTrePla, it's all good.

[calder]

Originally Posted by rypinion

As long as you don't live in DoWiSeTrePla, it's all good.

Lol I studied that word for 5 minutes like it was a lost frame of the Zapruder film trying to figure out what it was a reference to. Luckily I gave up and googled it.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by rypinion

As long as you don't live in DoWiSeTrePla, it's all good.

OK, I've spent enough time on that.