Winnipeg Construction

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

I expect that most Winnipeggers fear the disorder, not the crime, of downtown Winnipeg. The actual Criminal Code incidents tracked by WPS CrimeStat have always been relatively low in the downtown compared to other neighbourhods, mostly because the residential population is low. When downtown streets are bustling with pedestrians, nobody worries about a few pandhandlers or intoxicated people. But, when the streets are largely deserted, people become very fearful of the same thing. This is why many Winnipeggers fear downtown Winnipeg (especially at night) and believe that crime must be out of control.

Of course but the reputation is that winnipeg's downtown crime rates are much higher than in other cities. Air canada crews didn't move out of downtown Calgary and Edmonton out of a false perception of crime.

Turns out the reality is that downtown crime is higher in both those cities. Significantly in calgary's case. Few would believe that.

Downtown's population may only be 17000 but 75000 people work there every day and 15000 students study there. The daily population density is far higher than anywhere else in the city.

Winnipeg's downtown population is actually higher than both calgary's and edmonton's.


edit....jamiedavid, those are actual incidents not per capita.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Shinook

What?

He said, "So that plan has a giant LED wall in the plaza?"

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Of course but the reputation is that winnipeg's downtown crime rates are much higher than in other cities. Air canada crews didn't move out of downtown Calgary and Edmonton out of a false perception of crime.

Turns out the reality is that downtown crime is higher in both those cities. Significantly in calgary's case. Few would believe that.

Downtown's population may only be 17000 but 75000 people work there every day and 15000 students study there. The daily population density is far higher than anywhere else in the city.

Winnipeg's downtown population is actually higher than both calgary's and edmonton's.

Sorry for continuing to post off topic, but just one follow up point.

I agree, the reputation if downtown Winnipeg is bad, and the stats on crime don't bear it out. However, Winnipeggers are our own worst enemy. Recently, I had a number of colleagues from Ontario staying in a downtown Winnipeg hotel. They were warned by hotel staff not to walk downtown at night.

Is the problem with Air Canada, I wonder?

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by vid

He said, "So that plan has a giant LED wall in the plaza?"

minus the question mark

they have a plan for a giant tv basicaly for doing movie screenings and such or somthing from what i have been told

[vid]

The only time you seem to use question marks, they're sentences unto themselves.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by trueviking

the image:

That's what you'd see from the rooftop patio at Tavern United.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Sorry for continuing to post off topic, but just one follow up point.

I agree, the reputation if downtown Winnipeg is bad, and the stats on crime don't bear it out. However, Winnipeggers are our own worst enemy. Recently, I had a number of colleagues from Ontario staying in a downtown Winnipeg hotel. They were warned by hotel staff not to walk downtown at night.

Is the problem with Air Canada, I wonder?

I work downtown and have for a relatively long time. I have only once had an issue that made me feel threathed and it was relatively easy to deal with. That said, I have heard from female co-workers of their experiences and there are shocking differently and horrorifying. Honestly, based these experiences I would advise people to be cautious downtown but not to avoid the area. You will have issues in any part of any city, you just need to be aware of your situation and be preparred to act.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I work downtown and have for a relatively long time. I have only once had an issue that made me feel threathed and it was relatively easy to deal with. That said, I have heard from female co-workers of their experiences and there are shocking differently and horrorifying. Honestly, based these experiences I would advise people to be cautious downtown but not to avoid the area. You will have issues in any part of any city, you just need to be aware of your situation and be preparred to act.

My experience is very similar. Even after years of living and working downtown, and walking constantly through the various nooks and crannies of the area, I have never had any sort of physical altercation with anyone. But then, I'm a relatively young, able-bodied male so I am not the kind of person that a thug will pick out as an easy target.

By contrast, I can think of several women who have described incidents where they have received very unpleasant unwanted attention. A couple of weeks ago a female coworker was even assaulted (i.e. punched) by another woman who she didn't know.

I suspect most Winnipeg SSPers fit my profile - fairly young, healthy guys who can probably defend themselves if they have to. It is much more frightening for women who are often smaller than their harrassers or assailants. These stories are not uncommon - if you live, work or go to school downtown, just talk to your female colleagues and neighbours and you'll hear stories. So even though I appreciate trueviking's numbers, they don't change the fact that there is a lot of work that needs to be done before all Winnipeggers feel safe and comfortable on downtown streets.

[theruler462]

Website and more info about So/Po Square

http://www.soposquare.com/

If you read the brochure, it says that a residential component will be announced soon, which I assume is what is being planned for the Donald st lot.

[headhorse]

there is also a better quality image of the development up at WFP


from Winnipeg Free Press

[Shinook]

Originally Posted by headhorse

there is also a better quality image of the development up at WFP


from Winnipeg Free Press

I understand that this is only a preliminary conceptual image, but is the overall opinion that this is a good design? I'm not sure what to think of it at this point.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Shinook

I understand that this is only a preliminary conceptual image, but is the overall opinion that this is a good design? I'm not sure what to think of it at this point.

First of all, they keep mentioning the plan to connect MTS Centre with the Convention Centre. I get this and think it is a great idea, but then why don't they try to plan a public square running diagonally through the site. I think this would be much more visually appealing and could create more interesting buildings than square boxes. A couple of triangle or wedge shaped buildings would look amazing in my opinion. (i understand triangle might not be the optimum shape for building floor plates and that these are only very preliminary renderings)

I am not trying to slag this project as i love it. I am just trying to express an opinion.

[cheswick]

Thoughts on the vibrancy of this proposed courtyard?

It remands me of the promindade behind Portage place that was supposed to be bustling with people all the time. I think there may be a convenience store still operating there and thats about it.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by theruler462

Website and more info about So/Po Square

http://www.soposquare.com/

....ok the Video was cool.

[headhorse]

yeah, I'm worried it's going to be too inwards facing and ignore Carlton and Hargrave, leaving blank walls along those long streets. open it up to the street a little more, less focus on the square.

[headhorse]

it reminds me of the other day, I asked Stefano Grande why there wasn't a patio on the sidewalk in front of the Met (how great would that have been with some roll up garage style doors to open up the building to the street?) and he told me the sidewalk was too narrow and the street too wide. the sidewalk may be too narrow for a Tavern United rooftop patio, but I think especially with the roll up style garage doors it would work great. not to mention, how much wasted space is there on the other side of Donald with that massive sidewalk fronting the blank MTS wall?

we need to encourage interaction between buildings, people, sidewalks, and the street. we shouldn't be sacrificing street vibrancy for narrow sidewalks and wide roads... I feel like this development is doing that. instead of making other streets around the development more pedestrian friendly, they're shutting off access to them and focusing all the energy on the central square.

[Shinook]

I must admit that after having just watched the SoPo video presentation, I'm more pumped about this project now.

[viperred88]

Originally Posted by headhorse

it reminds me of the other day, I asked Stefano Grande why there wasn't a patio on the sidewalk in front of the Met (how great would that have been with some roll up garage style doors to open up the building to the street?) and he told me the sidewalk was too narrow and the street too wide. the sidewalk may be too narrow for a Tavern United rooftop patio, but I think especially with the roll up style garage doors it would work great. not to mention, how much wasted space is there on the other side of Donald with that massive sidewalk fronting the blank MTS wall?

we need to encourage interaction between buildings, people, sidewalks, and the street. we shouldn't be sacrificing street vibrancy for narrow sidewalks and wide roads... I feel like this development is doing that. instead of making other streets around the development more pedestrian friendly, they're shutting off access to them and focusing all the energy on the central square.

there is far too many streets grids downtown an one ways so everyone can escape downtown to their suburban home. We need less streets so pedestrians can walk with more ease and people living downtown do not need to be drowned by the noise of downtown street traffic and there is a need of more two streets so businesses so traffic would not be so fast and drivers can get to a building without driving in circles and have two perspective of what that said street looks like. Replace some streets with greenspace and promenades and downtown would be more calm, beautiful and inviting than a concrete jungle.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Shinook

I understand that this is only a preliminary conceptual image, but is the overall opinion that this is a good design? I'm not sure what to think of it at this point.

I am generally up on anything that involves the development of a surface parking lot, but I have to scratch my head over the constant desire to incorporate an outdoor plaza into this city's developments as though this were a place that didn't have winters to contend with. There are probably no less than a dozen plazas large and small throughout downtown Winnipeg, and the thing they all have in common is that they're virtually empty and devoid of people most of the time.

In my experience, plazas are only successful when you have a large number of people convening on them. If Manhattan had a Herald Square or Union Square on every other block, they would lose their charm. Less is more when it comes to this kind of thing.

As nice as the SoPo project is, I think it would be better if the developer took headhorse's advice. Make it less inward-focused and more about the street. It would be nice if people walking down Graham, Hargrave and Carlton at night passed by storefront businesses and open doors instead of having that all tucked away in a courtyard that sits out of sight.

[viperred88]

Originally Posted by Biff

....ok the Video was cool.

the buildings are bland, square and boring, need to be more creative, I just hope there is mix-use with residential or a tall skinny residential towers added to the mix. And yuck for the skywalks.

It would also be cool if the Jets built a Winnipeg Jets and/ or maybe a Manitoba hockey hall of fame museum on that site as well. Decorate that lot and around the MTS centre with tall statues ( so nobody can deface and crawl on them) of Bobby Hull, Hawerchuck, Hedberg and Nillson and Selanne... and Manitoba musician talents like the 'The Guess Who'... It would surely add character and art to the area like the marbles are attempting to do.

it could also cool with they built a Jets practice facility in the base of a residential tower. Yes I know they have the iceplex by birchwood and the downs but having a skating rink as an amenity for a condo would be great. Maybe they will do that on st.mary and donald site.