I-5 Bridge Replacement - Formerly Columbia River Crossing | Proposed

[cab]

Its sad to watch something like this abomination get pushed through in Oregon. We've allowed a bunch of substandard backward men to undermine our reputation in the world. For what? More homes in outer clark county? If you want the Gov. money dig a hole and refill it, it would do less damage. So sad. We are better than this.

[scleeb]

Originally Posted by cab

... substandard backward men...

Don't forget all the substandard backward women who chipped in too.

[cab]

I think the Willamette week took care of that part. In all this the most distressing is Kitzhaber. I used to have a lot of respect for him, but he just has absolutely no vision. Its a real shame the public has no ability to vote for any party that is smart enough to live and follow 2012 trends and latest thoughts. They're all stuck in reverse.

[scleeb]

The problem with effectively challenging this project are all the disparate interest groups with something to lose.

* Private sector trade unions - (Jobs)
* FDOT, ODOT & WSDOT - (Credibility, Power and Control)
* Construction companies - (Massive Building Contracts)
* Professions Service Providers - (Architects and Engineers billing away - ad infinitum)
* Ports Of Portland & Vancouver - (Speedier Travel Times)
* Real Estate Developers & Owners on Hayden Island / Jantzen Beach - (Property Condemnation Payouts and greater rents from Big Box Retailers)
* Ground Transportation Providers - (Speedier travel times makes them more competitive with rail & river modes).
* State Legislatures - (Campaign contributions / support from stake holders)
* Clark County Residents - (desperate for a faster commutes)
* Light Rail advocates - (desperate to gain a toehold in Vancouver).


Just look at that array of power brokers... This project is an unstoppable force because its so big and complicated. The politicians have political cover b/c they can claim that the process took so long and cost so much money, that changing course now would be a huge waste of money and time.

Bottom line... The singular lack of vision in the conceptual phase (This fault lies squarely with the State Transportation Agencies) fated this boondoggle on all of us before we ever knew what hit us.

Where is a Tom McCall when you need him? This sucks.

[cab]

At the end of the day its the voters who screwed up. Metro President abdicated their duty by giving up Metro's power so as not to be in a position to stop this horrible abomination. The voters put this guy into office. So I guess at the end of the day you get what you vote for. Beyond the physical damage, Oregon can shut the hell up now when it comes to planning, we're done leading.

[MarkDaMan]

^We lost the lead on planning years ago. M37 was the nail in the coffin. Yeah, voters curtailed the measure with M49, but it's been YEARS since we've had forward thinking leaders in both Portland and Oregon.

[tworivers]

I'm seriously considering closing my business and divorcing Portland if this goes through.

[tworivers]

Also cab, Sam Adams also deserves a share of the blame for not showing spine and vision when he had the chance.

[MarkDaMan]

^He certainly does. Knowing what I know now, I wish Adams had stepped down at the beginning of his term when the scandal erupted. NOT because I cared about the decisions he made or passed judgement, but he was critically weakened and never recovered causing Portland 4 more lost years after Potter's lost 4 years. Hales used to be Mr. Urban Planner, I hope that side reemerges. Portland needs it.

[cab]

Its really fascinating to see something like this get momentum. Humans have the strange capacity to brainwashed themselves into bad choices just because the system dictates a direction. No one is really sure how this started or why we are building it, or for who and yet everyone just keeps pushing forward. What we are missing from the system are the rebels. At a certain point systems get too big and push the rebels out for more and more compartmentalized order. http://www.registerguard.com/web/news/ci...ect-million-highway-realignment.html.csp Maybe if something like this happens to the CRC we'll get the change we need...at the expense of bankrupting OR and WA in the process.

[bvpcvm]

Originally Posted by tworivers

I'm seriously considering closing my business and divorcing Portland if this goes through.

OK, but the problem is, where would you go that's better and still relatively affordable?

I mean, don't get me wrong, Portland definitely has problems. The idealism of the Tom McCall days (we want a city that doesn't sprawl all the way to the coast) has met the reality of today (don't put that tower next to my house), and the opposition has not only organized but become much more adamant about what they believe. But I just can't think of any city in the US that doesn't have significant disadvantages. Sure, even Kansas City and Memphis are putting in streetcars, but the anti-city sentiment is still - I think - much stronger to begin with in those places. Also, what if there's a cultural limit (which I realize would be a moving target) to how much urbanism Americans are willing to tolerate? Is it possible that our city really went with limiting sprawl early on and other cities that are just now starting to do the same thing will also run into a political ceiling beyond which they can't densify any further? I mean, there are some nice projects in SLC, but how long will residents tolerate adding density before they too begin to reject it? Anyway, if you can think of a place you'd rather go to, that's realistic - don't bother telling me NYC - let me know.

(Sorry, tangent)

[tworivers]

Wow. Excellent WW article this week, apparently this is going to be the cover story? Utterly corrupt. This should have McCaig blowing smoke out of her ears .

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-20317-the_woman_behind_the_bridge.html

bvpcvm, I don't know exactly. Depends on my GF, who has expressed interest in doing design work in Berlin. Southern Spain has been calling my name for awhile now and it's easy to live there illegally and cheaply. I've been feeling like Portland's most recent golden age has been receding rapidly for the last few years. I love this place and I want to see it continue progressing and becoming more of a modern, visionary, cosmopolitan city while retaining its quirks and uniqueness. The CRC is a worst-case scenario, particularly as a longtime resident of NE PDX. I am convinced that if the CRC gets built we will be dealing with the consequences, including pressure to expand I-5 down to the Rose Qtr, for decades. I honestly cannot believe that instead of a plan to bury or remove the Eastbank Freeway -- thereby furthering our reputation as a beacon of smart urban planning (following the recent lead of cities like Madrid and Seoul) and returning the east side of the river to the people of Portland -- that we are even discussing this monstrous, corrupt freeway expansion project. My how far we have fallen.

[zilfondel]

Its not unstoppable, they in no way have enough money to fund it.

There is NO funding source for the CRC from Oregon. They were proposing cannibalizing existing programs to pay for it... $27 million/year of cannibalizing programs (what? schools?) is a tough sell, and funding keeps going down.

Not to mention a large chunk of change is apparently supposed to be spent in Washington. Your Oregon tax dollars at work - not in our state!

[zilfondel]

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

Also, what if there's a cultural limit (which I realize would be a moving target) to how much urbanism Americans are willing to tolerate? Is it possible that our city really went with limiting sprawl early on and other cities that are just now starting to do the same thing will also run into a political ceiling beyond which they can't densify any further?

I think its a cultural & generational thing. In 30 years, when all the baby boomers are dead, the culture will be fully shifted to maybe car-neutral anti-car instead of pro-car, like it is today.

This seems like a lot of older folks are living a narrative where they want to "give something back" to the state, and all they can think of are those nostalgic 1950s post-card ready typologies. Ergo, "here's a freeway, kids! We're going to die soon, so this is our gift to you! What do you mean, you don't want it? Ungrateful brats!" ...etc.

Would have been nicer if they kept working on fixing the healthcare system (which is what Kitz is good at); I'd rather be able to go to the doctor than watch an aging 2 million ton chunk of concrete under capacity by 75% slowly fall into the Columbia River because we are too poor to maintain it 50 years down the road.

Aaah, legacies...

[bvpcvm]

Originally Posted by tworivers

bvpcvm, I don't know exactly. Depends on my GF, who has expressed interest in doing design work in Berlin. Southern Spain has been calling my name for awhile now and it's easy to live there illegally and cheaply.

The thing is, that for the vast majority of people - thanks to kids, mortgages, health insurance - emigrating, especially illegally, to Europe, is pretty impractical. Personally, I think trying to live too far off the immigration "grid" would open you up to a lot of issues, but not really confer any advantages. I mean, great, so you get to live in an urban fantasyland, but you probably can't afford to live in an area you'd like to live in or partake in the other nice things about living in Europe. So what then? Unless you can actually get a legal job overseas, I think the sacrifice is too great. So then the choice comes down to Portland or some place like Sacramento - I'll take Portland, even with its problems.

Of course, I have no idea who you are or what kind of life you live, maybe it would work for you.

[RED_PDXer]

Meh.. I've come to live with it. There are definitely lots of people who support the project - it's not like the legislature is ignoring everyone. Supposedly it will be striped for fewer lanes than the full buildout could support.

If tolls actually covered the cost to build, that would possibly move me in the supporter column. It'll have light rail to Vancouver, which is a terrific feat. I just wish they'd also toll I-205. Without doing so, I-205 will become more of a mess as will I-84 for people trying to avoid the toll.

[Derek]

It's hilarious how people would actually waste more time and gas to drive over to the 205 crossing rather than just paying the toll. They'd probably waste more money on gas in the long run.

[dubu]

the i205 bridge will fall in the earthquake and that will be there only bridge so i so why its so big

[Grantenfuego]

Originally Posted by downtownpdx

Another view of Columbia River Crossing: Opponent's animated image shows before, after of project at Jantzen Beach


http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2013/02/columbia_river_crossing_oppone.html#incart_river

What a bold reminder of how terrible this thing is. What happened to the curving arches that were in earlier renderings of the Hayden Island to North Portland side?

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by Grantenfuego

What a bold reminder of how terrible this thing is. What happened to the curving arches that were in earlier renderings of the Hayden Island to North Portland side?

Not sure, but that also isn't a current rendering. Last planning document I read is much more compact, and wipes out the Safeway on the east side of the freeway. The linked rendering I think is from about 2009 or 2010 when it was going to be 22 lanes counting all the on/off ramps that were going to overlap on Hayden Island.

It's been significantly scaled back since then.