[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Most people don't look at city population seeing it is basically insignificant and metro is more important. Regina's metro is 10,000 bigger then ours and Saskatoon's is 60,000. Both take in a larger area then St. John's metro area. Whether you consider them ugly or not both have impressive skylines, Regina in my opinion has a better skyline then Halifax despite the population difference.

It's true that most people use Metros but in this specific case it definitely leads to comparing apples and oranges.

The City of St. John's has 106,000 people. The City of Regina has 193,000 people.

Trust me, when you visit both, THAT'S the difference you feel. It doesn't matter which city has sprawling suburbs that get included with its metro, and which city has farmland. When you're in the city, you don't even know what's outside it.

You don't walk around Regina thinking, "Oh, this Metro is about the same size as the St. John's Metro!" - Regina is simply, obviously MUCH bigger. You walk around thinking, "Holy ****, I had no idea Regina was this big. Has to be, what, two, three times the size of St. John's?"

[jeddy1989]

sorry but this to me does not scream of a city's downtown that feels 3 times as big .. maybe because of the scattered highrises among the parking lots lol

http://binged.it/Zlek7N

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

sorry but this to me does not scream of a city's downtown that feels 3 times as big .. maybe because of the scattered highrises among the parking lots lol

http://binged.it/Zlek7N

Yech - and, again, that's why I hope we never emulate these cities. That's how they actually live.

But it still does feel much larger. It's ugly and gross and car-centric and all of that... but it's clearly much larger.

EDIT: Check out Saskatoon, by the way. It's even scarier.

[jeddy1989]

St. John's is developed in a weird way anyways .. it's hard to gage it with us and out always unique city

when we get some tall buildings it will feel bigger i'm sure of that

[SignalHillHiker]

Speaking of which - if ever a place in our city needed a parkade:

http://binged.it/Zlh8lg

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

It's true that most people use Metros but in this specific case it definitely leads to comparing apples and oranges.

The City of St. John's has 106,000 people. The City of Regina has 193,000 people.

Trust me, when you visit both, THAT'S the difference you feel. It doesn't matter which city has sprawling suburbs that get included with its metro, and which city has farmland. When you're in the city, you don't even know what's outside it.

You don't walk around Regina thinking, "Oh, this Metro is about the same size as the St. John's Metro!" - Regina is simply, obviously MUCH bigger. You walk around thinking, "Holy ****, I had no idea Regina was this big. Has to be, what, two, three times the size of St. John's?"

Sorry but your point doesn't make any sense to me. As much as the mayor and council likes to complain about the metro area communities they're very important to the cities development.

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

sorry but this to me does not scream of a city's downtown that feels 3 times as big .. maybe because of the scattered highrises among the parking lots lol

http://binged.it/Zlek7N

Wow.. That is horrible! I have wondered why people comment on our pictures from these places and call us unique and colorful, now I know why! Wouldn't a place like that cause depression?!? Yuck. remind me to never visit Regina, Winnipeg, or Moncton too for that matter. I really don't like moncton...

Is that what you would want us to look like christopher_chafe??

We are very beautiful compared to other similar sized cities in Canada! I would never be able to live in a place like Regina or Winnipeg. Halifax I could handle, as well as other big cities (Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver) but i've noticed there is a category between small town and big city which is really quite repulsive. I have to say, I'm very glad we missed the age of the ugly concrete blocks that plauge most of North America! At least now, any new buildings we build will be modern and beautiful and will contrast the old heritage. None of this in-between age stuff xD

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Sorry but your point doesn't make any sense to me. As much as the mayor and council likes to complain about the metro area communities they're very important to the cities development.

I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Basically you're saying a naked woman who weighs 200 lbs (Regina) is the same size as a woman who weighs 100 lbs but has two 50-pound children.

"Their Metros are the same size, therefore the two cities are the same size!" = "Well, the mother and her kids are connected, so it's like she's 200 pounds!"

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Townie709

I have to say, I'm very glad we missed the age of the ugly concrete blocks that plauge most of North America! At least now, any new buildings we build will be modern and beautiful and will contrast the old heritage. None of this in-between age stuff xD

Preaching to the choir. I've said the same thing, in my head, sssooo many times.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Basically you're saying a naked woman who weighs 200 lbs (Regina) is the same size as a woman who weighs 100 lbs but has two 50-pound children.

"Their Metros are the same size, therefore the two cities are the same size!" = "Well, the mother and her kids are connected, so it's like she's 200 pounds!"

and frankfurt has a pretty awesome skyline for being 200,000 people smaller than Ottawa




http://www.snapsengine.com/details.php?image_id=11341&sessionid=d905a7574c6af768fcb7b3d08d4fc4f7


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Frankfurt

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Basically you're saying a naked woman who weighs 200 lbs (Regina) is the same size as a woman who weighs 100 lbs but has two 50-pound children.

"Their Metros are the same size, therefore the two cities are the same size!" = "Well, the mother and her kids are connected, so it's like she's 200 pounds!"

I would think they would have similar numbers of people working in their downtowns, or at least could. People from Pouch Cove aren't working there and the same applies for most communities in the metro area, they need to work in St. John's.

[Townie709]

I say don't judge by city numbers as often, like us, many cities have neighboring communities that are integrated into the main city (example: Mount Pearl)

I wouldn't go by metro region as that encompasses too many people and isn't always an accurate representation of the city's size.

I say use the urban population. That number always is between the city and metro population and give a better idea of thte city's size. I believe in St. John's that number is around 160,000? I'm not sure about other places

[jeddy1989]

The difference is that Regina probably grew out from one centre (mostly) and the city grew for itself .. as opposed to st. john's metro which were various towns that expanded into each other, therefore creating a different feel.. also with more high rises downtown it will feel very much larger because of our density

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Townie709

I say don't judge by city numbers as often, like us, many cities have neighboring communities that are integrated into the main city (example: Mount Pearl)

I wouldn't go by metro region as that encompasses too many people and isn't always an accurate representation of the city's size.

I say use the urban population. That number always is between the city and metro population and give a better idea of thte city's size. I believe in St. John's that number is around 160,000? I'm not sure about other places

it's all too hard to compare hahaha .. I just give or take 50,000 hahaha

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

lol.. time to stop drinking during the day hahahaha .. hey that means we are bigger than Victoria

and frankfurt has a pretty awesome skyline for being 200,000 people smaller than Ottawa

The dismissive drinking joke is unnecessary and rude. My opinion is perfectly valid and based on experience.

And, as I said clearly above, I'm talking about this specific case. Many times it makes sense to compare Metros - for example, in comparing Halifax and St. John's, or Toronto and Montreal.

But it doesn't make sense to use Metros in comparing Regina or Saskatoon to St. John's. It's comparing apples and oranges.

You're comparing:

1. Regina or Saskatoon: One single city of about 200,000 with a single core surrounded by farmland.

2. St. John's: One single city of about 100,000 surrounded by another city, several towns, and suburban sprawl that adds up to about 200,000.

This creates the inaccurate impression that Regina or Saskatoon would feel about the same size as St. John's. They don't.

It's EXACTLY like comparing Mount Pearl and Conception Bay South and saying they're the same size. Sure, technically. But we all know they're not. Mount Pearl feels a hell of a lot bigger even though both communities have a near-identical population - because you're comparing apples and oranges. They're not the same type of community.

[Trevor3]

Originally Posted by Townie709

Wow.. That is horrible! I have wondered why people comment on our pictures from these places and call us unique and colorful, now I know why! Wouldn't a place like that cause depression?!? Yuck. remind me to never visit Regina, Winnipeg, or Moncton too for that matter. I really don't like moncton...

Is that what you would want us to look like christopher_chafe??

We are very beautiful compared to other similar sized cities in Canada! I would never be able to live in a place like Regina or Winnipeg. Halifax I could handle, as well as other big cities (Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver) but i've noticed there is a category between small town and big city which is really quite repulsive. I have to say, I'm very glad we missed the age of the ugly concrete blocks that plauge most of North America! At least now, any new buildings we build will be modern and beautiful and will contrast the old heritage. None of this in-between age stuff xD

Simple geography kept St. John's, and even Corner Brook, from looking like that. In Newfoundland we simply don't have the room to build a large building and give it a large parking lot and wide roads between them. St. John's was the product of everyone being involved with the fishery in one form or another. Everyone had to access the water front, so people built up the sides of the hills along narrow, winding roads, all trying to fit in as close to the harbour as possible. In Corner Brook, it was about trying to be close to the mill, while trying to live at an altitude that doesn't give you 6 extra weeks of winter compared to your neighbour down the street.

In Regina, it's a prairie, and you have all kinds of room to expand. There are no restrictions on how far you can go to the east and north. There is a river that generally defines the west boundary, but that same river has been passed to expand southward. Basically, you get 2 buildings and 2 parking lots on a city block.

St. John's was born with density and is the product of it, which really seems strange in a province that is known for being sparsely populated.

EDIT: I also just noticed that there were 61 people viewing the St. John's section and just 46 viewing Halifax. Impressive work people!

[jeddy1989]

:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

The dismissive drinking joke is unnecessary and rude. My opinion is perfectly valid and based on experience.

And, as I said clearly above, I'm talking about this specific case. Many times it makes sense to compare Metros - for example, in comparing Halifax and St. John's, or Toronto and Montreal.

But it doesn't make sense to use Metros in comparing Regina or Saskatoon to St. John's. It's comparing apples and oranges.

You're comparing:

1. Regina or Saskatoon: One single city of about 200,000 with a single core surrounded by farmland.

2. St. John's: One single city of about 100,000 surrounded by another city, several towns, and suburban sprawl that adds up to about 200,000.

This creates the inaccurate impression that Regina or Saskatoon would feel about the same size as St. John's. They don't.

It's EXACTLY like comparing Mount Pearl and Conception Bay South and saying they're the same size. Sure, technically. But we all know they're not. Mount Pearl feels a hell of a lot bigger even though both communities have a near-identical population - because you're comparing apples and oranges. They're not the same type of community.

I'm sorry I didnt mean to be rude

I was just highlighting that a lot has to do with how the city develops to how it urban it feels, and much has to do with the height of buildings, for example stockholm will feel much smaller than an american city of it's size due to the lack of tall buildings.

again I'm sorry for offending you ..
These things can be very interesting things to look into and why that population would feel different, and what makes a city feel "big"

the mount pearl thing is like what I said about cities that grow out as a single city as oppose to like CBS which were various municipalities which grew into each other

please dont be mad at me you're like ma bud

[SignalHillHiker]

Oh, no need to apologize. I know you were just kidding around. I just wanted to make it clear my reaction was to stop my feet and scream: STOP JOKING AROUND AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I'M SAYING!

I'm getting bad for that in my old age. Even when I run into people I dislike or who dislike me, now I hold eye contact and smile, just to say, "I don't want to say hello, but I want you to know I'm not afraid to."

*****

As for how urban we feel... St. John's is so dense, architecturally, that it feels very urban. It doesn't feel as big as the prairie cities because our CBD is way, way smaller than theirs but it does feel... more complete. The surface parking lots really do feel like holes in the urban fabric - and we have far fewer of them.

It creates a wonderful atmosphere.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Oh, no need to apologize. I know you were just kidding around. I just wanted to make it clear my reaction was to stop my feet and scream: STOP JOKING AROUND AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I'M SAYING!

I'm getting bad for that in my old age. Even when I run into people I dislike or who dislike me, now I hold eye contact and smile, just to say, "I don't want to say hello, but I want you to know I'm not afraid to."

*****

As for how urban we feel... St. John's is so dense, architecturally, that it feels very urban. It doesn't feel as big as the prairie cities because our CBD is way, way smaller than theirs but it does feel... more complete. The surface parking lots really do feel like holes in the urban fabric - and we have far fewer of them.

It creates a wonderful atmosphere.

I agree, they are just two completely different types of cities, and I think we will feel much larger when we add some tall buildings to the sceen

[SignalHillHiker]

I think so too. But even filling in the Downtown West End with one-floor buildings would make it feel larger. That area is practically deserted. We need LOTS of infill there.