[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[SignalHillHiker]

It's not about pictures - that's just one aspect of view planes and one of the benefits of having an attractive city.

*****

On Flickr, someone corrected my caption of this photo to what it is now:


Legros and Motti (centre), PF Chang's (left, off screen) by Signal Hill Hiker Photography, on Flickr

His comment was:

"that area dug out will actually be legros and motti........which is a privetaly owned restaurant......next to it is where the pf changs will go"

I genuinely didn't know, or maybe forgot, that two new restaurants were going there. Did we know that?

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

It's not about pictures - that's just one aspect of view planes and one of the benefits of having an attractive city.

*****

On Flickr, someone corrected my caption of this photo to what it is now:


Legros and Motti (centre), PF Chang's (left, off screen) by Signal Hill Hiker Photography, on Flickr

His comment was:

"that area dug out will actually be legros and motti........which is a privetaly owned restaurant......next to it is where the pf changs will go"

I genuinely didn't know, or maybe forgot, that two new restaurants were going there. Did we know that?

And another aspect of having an attractive city is ensuring our YOUNG people stay here and are able to obtain well paying jobs, and please do not tell me that our Employment numbers are doing just fine, as employment numbers do not paint an accurate picture (take out the part time and minimum wage numbers and it won't be so rosey).

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

It's not about pictures - that's just one aspect of view planes and one of the benefits of having an attractive city.

*****

On Flickr, someone corrected my caption of this photo to what it is now:


Legros and Motti (centre), PF Chang's (left, off screen) by Signal Hill Hiker Photography, on Flickr

His comment was:

"that area dug out will actually be legros and motti........which is a privetaly owned restaurant......next to it is where the pf changs will go"

I genuinely didn't know, or maybe forgot, that two new restaurants were going there. Did we know that?

Yes they were hotly contested by dt locals before you moved home last year. They are being opened by the same people that own the KEG franchise.

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

Ryan for the love of God put down your camera lense and try to plan for the future. Just because we have a small CBD NOW does not mean it will always be small. Btw YES we most certainly CAN become a better Halifax, all we need is a proper council that don't mind telling the Rubber Boot Gang and the Arts Clique to SHUT THE HELL UP!

People can have different views without being wrong. To insult someone like that, based on their opinions, is rude and we shouldn't put up with it. Who's to say your way of thinking is correct anyway? I think Ryan deserves an apology. He never said we would always have a small CBD, he said he would rather it expand westward that to stay where it is. There is nothing wrong with that, it is a valid opinion that many of us share. You can have a different outlook for the future and nobody is saying that it's wrong, just different. And we need not insult eachother over mere differences in the way that we think.

Never put your camera down Ryan

[Townie709]

Getting back on topic:

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

I am talking about with the strong possibility that this project will get shot down, not only will we get the chance to finally change the Bowerings site for the better, but we will also no longer get the possibility to get EA Games/BioWare to open shop here in St. John's. They were going to be the anchor employer in the Office Tower portion. Now I am sorry if I offended you with the Camera reference, but I would much prefer to see 200 young smart educated people working(that's what they would be hiring if they open here) making good pay (their secretary's start off at 48k a year) rather than keeping Water Street and the HR Front stagnant and stale so people can take pictures.

EA/Bioware setting up shop in St. John's!? I never would have imagined we would ever hold such a huge company here, let alone that they would want to open an office here! That would be so, so great! The Bowrings site, in my opinion, is far enough west so that it doesn't block many views. That is the site I was hoping for. Build away I say! Having a company like that here in St. John's would be great for the economy! If we don't approve this, they will just run away to Halifax and that is not what we want

Just because I want to see this approved, doesn't mean I don't care about heritage. I do, but I feel this is far enough west and wont infringe/affect heritage very much. I can't wait to hear more news and I hope in some miracle this is approved and we have a modern, young company inhabiting water street. This could be the best thing since Fortis Place!! (If this council would have the balls and brains to approve it)

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Townie709

People can have different views without being wrong. To insult someone like that, based on their opinions, is rude and we shouldn't put up with it. Who's to say your way of thinking is correct anyway? I think Ryan deserves an apology. He never said we would always have a small CBD, he said he would rather it expand westward that to stay where it is. There is nothing wrong with that, it is a valid opinion that many of us share. You can have a different outlook for the future and nobody is saying that it's wrong, just different. And we need not insult eachother over mere differences in the way that we think.

Never put your camera down Ryan

I never said my way of thinking was correct. When I referred to the rubber boot gang and the arts clique I was referring to Sheliagh and her ilk no one on this site in particular.

I agree what I said to Ryan was uncalled for, however I am just sick of people feeling that someones desire to photograph should take priority over putting our young people to work in well paying jobs that is all.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Townie709

Getting back on topic:



EA/Bioware setting up shop in St. John's!? I never would have imagined we would ever hold such a huge company here, let alone that they would want to open an office here! That would be so, so great! The Bowrings site, in my opinion, is far enough west so that it doesn't block many views. That is the site I was hoping for. Build away I say! Having a company like that here in St. John's would be great for the economy! If we don't approve this, they will just run away to Halifax and that is not what we want

Just because I want to see this approved, doesn't mean I don't care about heritage. I do, but I feel this is far enough west and wont infringe/affect heritage very much. I can't wait to hear more news and I hope in some miracle this is approved and we have a modern, young company inhabiting water street. This could be the best thing since Fortis Place!! (If this council would have the balls and brains to approve it)

I too care about heritage.......however I care about real heritage and not building heritage. For me the true heritage of this city is the people that live here. Not some run down building on Water Street or Duckworth Street.

[Horsell]

Jeddy, Townie, your earlier comments re: the West End are spot on, there needs to be a PLAN. I know we are dealing with something on a much smaller scale here but think of the vision that was put forth for London's Canary Wharf and what it has become.

I too like the idea of minimum heights for much of DT West. There is only so much land available and it shouldn't be wasted on 4 and 5 story buildings. Think of the new Steel Hotel, it should have been a minimum 8 or 10 stories. Stantec is another one.

While I'm 100% in favor of a taller and more dense DT West I am also 100% behind Signal on his comment of " ... bringing the hammer down on tall or insufficiently heritage conscious proposals in the East End". We MUST preserve what we have in the East end. This is not to say that we can't welcome redevelopment of a scale suited to the existing restrictions. I appreciate the difficult economics of redeveloping smaller scale heritage structures, but it can be done.

If Fortis or anyone else who owns property east of the Murray Premises doesn't want to play by the height restrictions, let them sell and move west. Instead of tax incentives for developing DT west perhaps the city should give tax incentives for creative redevelopment of the east. Council should remove some of the silly parking requirements for redevelopment to allow more flexibility in building design and use. Do we really want a row of 351's from one end of Harbor Dr to the other? I don't. (More on what I think should be done with harbor Dr. later...when I calm down..lol)

Much of the controversy stirred by the renewed interest in Downtown development has been brought on by a dysfunctional Council that can't make up its mind as to what kind of city we should have. No plan, no vision, no idea what to do next.

PS: I don't own a pair of rubber boots !!

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Horsell

If Fortis or anyone else who owns property east of the Murray Premises doesn't want to play by the height restrictions, let them sell and move west.

It's that type of attitude, that has kept this City stale and dormant and other cities have been able to attract well paying jobs and create young and vibrant DT's.

If choosing between Heritage and attracting multi billion multi national companies to St. John's (outside the oil industry), let me be the first to stand in line with the wrecking ball.

[Townie709]

But for this particular proposal, didn't you say that the Bowrings building will stay intact? or at least the facade? It's not an attractive or historic building by my standards, but to the people who shopped there for years and years, it's historic. Leaving the old building intact might help to win over a few on-the-fencers

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

It's that type of attitude, that has kept this City stale and dormant and other cities have been able to attract well paying jobs and create young and vibrant DT's.

If choosing between Heritage and attracting multi billion multi national companies to St. John's (outside the oil industry), let me be the first to stand in line with the wrecking ball.

That's a false dilemma. We don't have to choose one or the other of those two things. We can easily have neither or both. They are all but completely unrelated.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Townie709

But for this particular proposal, didn't you say that the Bowrings building will stay intact? or at least the facade? It's not an attractive or historic building by my standards, but to the people who shopped there for years and years, it's historic. Leaving the old building intact might help to win over a few on-the-fencers

If it is indeed the Bowring site, then I imagine it's the Grace Building on the corner of Water and Becks Cove/George that would remain intact. The Bowring building has no significant heritage value.

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

If it is indeed the Bowring site, then I imagine it's the Grace Building on the corner of Water and Becks Cove/George that would remain intact. The Bowring building has no significant heritage value.

Are your sure?? Wasn't it built in the late 1800's? Maybe I'm way off xD

Edit: Yes, it is the bowrings site. Chris confirmed that along with the major anchor tenant.

[SignalHillHiker]

I'm not sure, but to me it looks more like a cheap and modern imitation of a heritage building. And it's only two floors high, which is too short for that area.

I'd love to keep the Grace Building because it's an especially cool one - placed in such an interesting way. It'd only form one corner of any new development on the site. It's a personal favourite for the same reason as the old Newfoundland Telecom Building (MIX Condo), the placement is so unique.

But the Bowring Downtown Centre... good riddance.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Townie709

But for this particular proposal, didn't you say that the Bowrings building will stay intact? or at least the facade? It's not an attractive or historic building by my standards, but to the people who shopped there for years and years, it's historic. Leaving the old building intact might help to win over a few on-the-fencers

The design that they went with, which is the most economically feasible for this company was to tear down the Bowerings building all together and build 3 bulidings on that site. With the Office Tower taking up part of Harbor Drive almost right back to the apron.

EA Games/Bioware already had an agreement in principle with the developer to purchase 6 floors of the 22 story building and set up a state of the art development centre here in St. John's as they know and are aware of the talent that reside here in NL when it comes to the Gaming industry (after all close to 35% of their employees in Edmonton, Vancouver and Montreal are from here).

They were starting off in the 200 jobs range and obviously hiring more as time went on, plus they were not part time nor minimum wage jobs that this city is so well known for. A secretary would make $48k a year (with no experience) or someone in my shoes with 7 years experience in the Web Sector would make in excess of 100K.

Incase you guys are wondering where I got the information about EA games.....they are the company that I am going working in Edmonton starting Feb 11.

The design would be very similar to Kings Wharf in Darthmouth, NS

So forgive me if I sound so passionate about a proposal that would undoubtedly put this city on the map.

[Townie709]

Yeah, I find the Bowring center to be pretty ugly. It's too short to really fit in on the front and it's ugly on the back. The only thing I find to be interesting about it is it's rooftop parking lot (which I will willingly let go!)

I would also not like to see the Grace building go. That one is unique. Ideally, for me, they would tear down the Bowring center and make a heritage facade that blends with water street better than the Bowring Center ever did, preserve the grace building as part of that facade, and the build up to 23 stories on the harbour drive side. That's my opinion, not saying it's right or wrong

Late February/early March cannot come soon enough!!

[SignalHillHiker]

Eek... you know for sure you're allowed to share that information? I'm worried you'll get in trouble.

Well, that's fantastic news. And this particular location is acceptable for a building of height. I mean, it's between Scotia Place and Atlantic Place.

[Townie709]

Originally Posted by christopher_chafe

The design that they went with, which is the most economically feasible for this company was to tear down the Bowerings building all together and build 3 bulidings on that site. With the Office Tower taking up part of Harbor Drive almost right back to the apron.

EA Games/Bioware already had an agreement in principle with the developer to purchase 6 floors of the 22 story building and set up a state of the art development centre here in St. John's as they know and are aware of the talent that reside here in NL when it comes to the Gaming industry (after all close to 35% of their employees in Edmonton, Vancouver and Montreal are from here).

They were starting off in the 200 jobs range and obviously hiring more as time went on, plus they were not part time nor minimum wage jobs that this city is so well known for. A secretary would make $48k a year (with no experience) or someone in my shoes with 7 years experience in the Web Sector would make in excess of 100K.

Incase you guys are wondering where I got the information about EA games.....they are the company that I am going working in Edmonton starting Feb 11.

The design would be very similar to Kings Wharf in Darthmouth, NS

So forgive me if I sound so passionate about a proposal that would undoubtedly put this city on the map.

I knew it when you mentioned EA games, and I looked up their canadian offices and saw Edmonton. Congrats

Three buildings of different heights?? That could be very attractive!

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Townie709

Yeah, I find the Bowring center to be pretty ugly. It's too short to really fit in on the front and it's ugly on the back. The only thing I find to be interesting about it is it's rooftop parking lot (which I will willingly let go!)

I would also not like to see the Grace building go. That one is unique. Ideally, for me, they would tear down the Bowring center and make a heritage facade that blends with water street better than the Bowring Center ever did, preserve the grace building as part of that facade, and the build up to 23 stories on the harbour drive side. That's my opinion, not saying it's right or wrong

Late February/early March cannot come soon enough!!

Yes, that would be ideal.

But I'd even accept a modern street-level fascade in that location. It'd look pretty cool with the Grace Building fascade forming the corner, almost like a rock cracked open to reveal something shiny inside.

[christopher_chafe]

Originally Posted by Townie709

I knew it when you mentioned EA games, and I looked up their canadian offices and saw Edmonton. Congrats

Three buildings of different heights?? That could be very attractive!

Office/Retail tower would be 22/23 storeys (with storeys 1-6 being retail)
Building 1 (Apartments/Condos) 13 storeys
Building 2 (Parking/Retail) majority of parking according to them COULD be done underground. As for the height of that building I am not really certain. This could have been the 10 storey one they were proposing for water street side.

And Townie709 Thanks for the congrats!!!!! I am as giddy as a baby on Christmas Morning.