YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by tayser

AC should hurry the hell up and source 2 more 77L from somewhere and just start sooner, 2015 is too long, and Qantas are as useless as tits on a bull........... cmon Air Canuckistan, we're waiting!

YYZ-YVR-SYD-YVR-YYZ (current) & YUL-YVR-MEL-YVR-YUL (new) timed to depart about 30 min earlier in MEL and 30min earlier in YUL would make for a very good scissor hub for anyone in Melbourne/Sydney wanting to fly to Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal and vice versa.



AU-CA bilateral as it stands only allows 2 ports in each other's country with stops in HNL, NAN, PPT or SFO - this will need to be changed if a 3rd AU port for Canadian-flagged airlines were to eventuate (it's on the cards, but as it stands AC could only choose MEL or BNE under the current arrangement, not both).

Could a new AUS - CAN bilateral be negotiated? I'd LOVE to see YVR as a major jumping-off point, not only for Asia, but for the whole Pacific region, including Oceania.

[tayser]

Yeah it can be - somewhat easily... we have open-skies with the US, an integrated agreement with NZ which sees AU-NZ operate like a mini-EU (Qantas can fly domestic routes in NZ and AirNZ in Australia, as well as QF originate services in NZ and fly internationally not via AU and vice versa with Air NZ in Australia), open-skies with Singapore, Hong Kong etc.

I think the Canadian Gov wanted to restart talks a few years ago but wasnt much movement from Au government cos QF were in their ears - like always - they make money by flying 380s to LAX then farming people off onto Alaskan flights to YVR, AA flights to YYZ and via Chicago to YOW/YUL and they dont have the planes to do non-stop journies to YVR cos they're a bunch of silly billies for not buying the 777 variants that would have been cheaper to run than their fleet on 747s.

Vancouver's not going to be all that competitive for AU-US traffic (i.e AC MEL/SYD-YVR-NYC/CHI etc) as QF, AA, DL and VA all fly via LAX which is the shortest path, but for Eastern Canada: absolutely, you get to bypass US customs on the whole journey which will be a big plus.

However, I dare say YVR would be just like LAX - 50% of all Australians dont make it beyond the west coast of the USA (Vegas about as far inland as they go) and I dare say it'd be the same in Canada with Vancouver (Banff/Jasper/maybe Calgary etc) - "Whistler Express" etc etc.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by tayser

Yeah it can be - somewhat easily... we have open-skies with the US, an integrated agreement with NZ which sees AU-NZ operate like a mini-EU (Qantas can fly domestic routes in NZ and AirNZ in Australia, as well as QF originate services in NZ and fly internationally not via AU and vice versa with Air NZ in Australia), open-skies with Singapore, Hong Kong etc.

I think the Canadian Gov wanted to restart talks a few years ago but wasnt much movement from Au government cos QF were in their ears - like always - they make money by flying 380s to LAX then farming people off onto Alaskan flights to YVR, AA flights to YYZ and via Chicago to YOW/YUL and they dont have the planes to do non-stop journies to YVR cos they're a bunch of silly billies for not buying the 777 variants that would have been cheaper to run than their fleet on 747s.

Vancouver's not going to be all that competitive for AU-US traffic (i.e AC MEL/SYD-YVR-NYC/CHI etc) as QF, AA, DL and VA all fly via LAX which is the shortest path, but for Eastern Canada: absolutely, you get to bypass US customs on the whole journey which will be a big plus.

However, I dare say YVR would be just like LAX - 50% of all Australians dont make it beyond the west coast of the USA (Vegas about as far inland as they go) and I dare say it'd be the same in Canada with Vancouver (Banff/Jasper/maybe Calgary etc) - "Whistler Express" etc etc.

^^^^^^^^^^
Good news, interesting news. Thanks.
Do you think that an ensemble of flights from Vancouver to Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane is eventually possible? I'd love to see YVR extend its market footprint, and this is one part of the world where we may have an edge. I'd be interested in hearing your views on this.

[trofirhen]

Air Canada's new low-cost overseas airline will apparently be called "Air Canada Rouge."
Appropriate enough, I guess, (maple leaves and all that) but still ...........

[metroXpress]

YVR added this on their Facebook page today.

[s211]

It's SNOWMAGEDDON !!!

[tayser]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

^^^^^^^^^^
Good news, interesting news. Thanks.
Do you think that an ensemble of flights from Vancouver to Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane is eventually possible? I'd love to see YVR extend its market footprint, and this is one part of the world where we may have an edge. I'd be interested in hearing your views on this.

10 years, probably.

Canadian passports presented at passport control at Tullamarine (MEL) keep rising y/y and they're either flying on a US or AU airline via SFO/LAX, via AKL on NZ or via SYD on AC's service - that's the market that will be gobbled up when/if a non-stop service starts.

Brisbane would be more of an expensive snowbird destination for Canadians, although there'd definitely be a fair amount of people who wanted to head to the Rockies from this end.

Melbourne would have double the amount of high-yielding passengers than Brisbane (whether they're bound for Vancouver, who knows - probably more Toronto) and it would be much easier to fill business class if Melbourne were started first.

If the bilateral were changed, Brisbane would be a prime candidate for the AC Rouge brand and AC mainline to Melbourne as well as the current Sydney service. AC's 767-300ERs that are going to AC Rouge are just beyond the range of YVR-BNE (6300nm as opposed to a 5900nm range on the plane) and would require a stop in HNL/NAN - might work for a "leisure" carrier, but it would be shunned for mainline (AC mainline used to do YVR-HNL-SYD and for a while they did YVR-HNL-MEL with 767-300ERs just before Sept. 11th, dropped soon after - 77Ls/77Ws allowed them to remove HNL and just fly direct).

Starting Melbourne 3x a week non-stop would be a good start: it only requires one 77L (or 789) - dep YVR Tues Thur, Sat, dep MEL Mon, Wed, Fri etc - it won't cannibalise the yields on the YVR-SYD flight as much if they started daily and allows them to exploit a market that needs to grow as flights are ramped up to daily.

[Johnny Aussie]

^^ what a coincidence... that photo would have been taken just minutes before I arrived (2 1/2 hours late) on AC34 from SYD this morning... a bit of a winter wonderland welcome!
We had to hold another couple of minutes for the Sunwing plane to get out of the way after its pushback. Another awesome flight on the 77L. Even with the extra 2 1/2 hours on the plane... Being in AC's Exec First made the 17 hours on it bearable. The delay occurred after we pushed out of SYD and had to go back to the gate.

^ if I recall correctly, AC flights to MEL were routed YYZ-HNL-YVR.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by tayser

10 years, probably.

Canadian passports presented at passport control at Tullamarine (MEL) keep rising y/y and they're either flying on a US or AU airline via SFO/LAX, via AKL on NZ or via SYD on AC's service - that's the market that will be gobbled up when/if a non-stop service starts.

Brisbane would be more of an expensive snowbird destination for Canadians, although there'd definitely be a fair amount of people who wanted to head to the Rockies from this end.

Melbourne would have double the amount of high-yielding passengers than Brisbane (whether they're bound for Vancouver, who knows - probably more Toronto) and it would be much easier to fill business class if Melbourne were started first.

If the bilateral were changed, Brisbane would be a prime candidate for the AC Rouge brand and AC mainline to Melbourne as well as the current Sydney service. AC's 767-300ERs that are going to AC Rouge are just beyond the range of YVR-BNE (6300nm as opposed to a 5900nm range on the plane) and would require a stop in HNL/NAN - might work for a "leisure" carrier, but it would be shunned for mainline (AC mainline used to do YVR-HNL-SYD and for a while they did YVR-HNL-MEL with 767-300ERs just before Sept. 11th, dropped soon after - 77Ls/77Ws allowed them to remove HNL and just fly direct).

Starting Melbourne 3x a week non-stop would be a good start: it only requires one 77L (or 789) - dep YVR Tues Thur, Sat, dep MEL Mon, Wed, Fri etc - it won't cannibalise the yields on the YVR-SYD flight as much if they started daily and allows them to exploit a market that needs to grow as flights are ramped up to daily.

Wow! That might put us on the road to a mini-Oceana to NA hub. At present, Seattle has no scheduled flights down under at all. We've been apparently losing passengers (cheaper flights) and airlines(i.e. Emirates) to SEA, and that has to be countered, a little bit, wherever possible.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Air Canada's new low-cost overseas airline will apparently be called "Air Canada Rouge."
Appropriate enough, I guess, (maple leaves and all that) but still ...........

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/12/18/air-canada-rouge-discount.html

[Johnny Aussie]

Flew into YVR from LAS this morning and read this little bit of news.

Shortly after AC announced it is boosting Beijing flights...

Air China is also boosting YVR-PEK to 11 weekly up from 7 last summer.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/12/22/ca-s13update1/

So both AC and CA will be operating 11 weekly flights on the PEK route next summer.

Had an amazing view of all the snow capped mountains landing on 26R this morning.

[Johnny Aussie]

Compared to summer 2012, next summer Condor is increasing YVR from 3 weekly to 4 weekly and YYC from 2 weekly to 3 weekly (during the peak July - August period).

YVR to operate Mon, Wed, Sat and Sun
YYC to operate Tue, Thu and Fri

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Compared to summer 2012, next summer Condor is increasing YVR from 3 weekly to 4 weekly and YYC from 2 weekly to 3 weekly (during the peak July - August period).

YVR to operate Mon, Wed, Sat and Sun
YYC to operate Tue, Thu and Fri

Nice. Condor is a great cheap airline for people trying to save a few bucks. Used them twice last year, Recife to Frankfurt and Frankfurt to Vegas. I could not resist the cheap fares they offered and at the end of the day I cant think of any complaints.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Nice. Condor is a great cheap airline for people trying to save a few bucks. Used them twice last year, Recife to Frankfurt and Frankfurt to Vegas. I could not resist the cheap fares they offered and at the end of the day I cant think of any complaints.

Where will they fly to? Not Düsseldorf? I thought that had been discontinued.

[trofirhen]

When this comes to fruition, what will it mean for YVR? This reprsents a huge market of 42m. Would there be flights mostly to Guanghzhou (formerly Canton, if I'm not mistaken...)

Or would there be enough market demand in other cities to justify other routes within this region to YVR?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01810/China-Super-City_1810271b.gif

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Where will they fly to? Not Düsseldorf? I thought that had been discontinued.

Seasonal flight to Frankfurt am Main.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

When this comes to fruition, what will it mean for YVR? This reprsents a huge market of 42m. Would there be flights mostly to Guanghzhou (formerly Canton, if I'm not mistaken...)

Or would there be enough market demand in other cities to justify other routes within this region to YVR?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01810/China-Super-City_1810271b.gif

We already have flights to CAN... served 5 weekly by CZ. Wouldn't be surprised if this becomes upgraded to daily by next year. I know there was previous discussion of CZ wanting to also compete with CA/AC on the PEK-YVR route but according to CAAC, only one mainland carrier can operate an international route (with exceptions made to the flag carrier CA as one of the directors of CAAC is a former CA director).

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

When this comes to fruition, what will it mean for YVR? This reprsents a huge market of 42m. Would there be flights mostly to Guanghzhou (formerly Canton, if I'm not mistaken...)

Or would there be enough market demand in other cities to justify other routes within this region to YVR?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01810/China-Super-City_1810271b.gif

Actually, the Guangdong provincial government subsequently denied this report. See below link:

http://english.cntv.cn/20110130/103387.shtml

I suppose it doesn't really change the fact that there is a huge catchment area, but as deasine says, CAN-YVR is already served by CZ. AC was making noise about starting this route too, although it's since gone quiet.

Note that HKG also draws a lot of passengers (I always see many Mainland Chinese connecting on CX) as there are ferry services from Shenzhen directly to the airport and they can skip Hong Kong immigration procedures since they arrive airside. Also IIRC there are a lot of bus services from various points in Guangdong to HKIA

[Valley_Refugee]

November PAX up 3.8% YOY

http://centreforaviation.com/news/vancou...pax-up-4-cargo-stable-in-nov-2012-196511

[Johnny Aussie]

As expected, China Southern will increase YVR-CAN to daily from 17 June.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/10/cz-yvr-s13/

Now just waiting to see what China Eastern does.